Building Information Across from Ransom Gillis in Brush Park (Detroit: apartment complexes, rent)

[dalien14]

I am an architecture student looking for information about the buildings directly across John R St. from the Ransom Gillis House. I have been completely unable to find any information about what is there other than aerial (and street view) pictures. I am not even entriely certain what the street address is of the location. Please let me know if you know anything at all about this place! Thanks

[Retroit]

Detroit, MI - Google Maps

Looks like some construction equipment and some childrens' toys (Big Wheels) in the front yard. The building closest to the street looks like it may be from the 1930-40s era. The middle portion looks like 1910-20s era. The back portion looks 1870-90s era.

Photos are dated 2009. Have you been by recently? Are the buildings still occupied and standing?

Approximate address is 96 Alfred.

[Retroit]

I found this little tidbit of info. This map from the 1880s(?) shows the structure in back. I assume the home shown on the map was torn down to make way for the newer buildings (although sometimes existing structures, or parts thereof, were retained and built around),

Map of Brush Park, Detroit | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[dalien14]

First of all no, I have not been to Detroit recently (since the pictures) but I have yet to come across any evidence that the building is no longer there (although the construction equipment does suggest that it is possible)

Yeah. I too found that neighborhood map. I wasn't sure if that rectangular building behind the house shown (next to the alley) was the same one that is still standing (see attached) or not. If it is, any ideas what it could have been? whats there now does not appear to have been very residential. It almost looks like some sort of warehouse or factory building. On the other hand, the origional house on the lot was crucifix shaped and based on the satellite pictures there is no recognizable portion remaining although it is possible that parts are used internally or as foundation.

I have been searching for things near the estimated address provided by you and google, but nothing has come up which leads me to believe it is abandoned or demolished, but there does not appear to be any way to tell without visiting. That is my dilemma. I am planning on visiting the site sometime in the next couple of months to gather more information, but I would like to get some of the basics figured out first (like if it exists for example). Any tips on how to figure out what the status of this lot/block is pre-visit?

Thanks

[dalien14]

I am a relative newcomer to Detroit history, but is it possible that the houses dating from the map found previously had stables/barns? I say this because the building pictured in my previous post seems to have hayloft doors on the side facing the alley (you can see it in google street view)

http://maggiemaefarm.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/2.jpg

[Retroit]

Yes, it was originally a stable, as indicated by the X on the top of the roof.

http://sanborn.umi.com/HelpFiles/key.html

I may be able to swing by the place on Monday and check on its state. I may not be able to post the results till the end of next week though. I'll try to take some pictures. No promises.

Do you mind me asking what your interest is in this building? Maybe if I see someone, I can get information for you?

[dalien14]

Wow. very helpful to have the Sanborn Map key. I mentioned before that I am an architecture student. I am currently in my final year of school at Penn State University and am beginning work on a year long "thesis" project. My idea for the project is related to the trend in the United States to return to an extended-intergenerational housing situation. I am considering the particular set of buildings for an adaptive reuse foundation (as they appear abandoned from the info I have been able to find and yet are representative of a wide range of Detroit history) , but am also open to other similar situations in the neighborhood. If you are interested, I have pasted the text of my preliminary thesis proposal below.

What is your relationship to the city of Detroit? Like i mentioned earlier, I have relatively little knowledge of the city (other than what can be found in books) and would love to have the input of someone with a more intimate (and legitimate) understanding.

As far as scouting the location goes, I would be indescribably grateful for anything and everything that you can get that doesn't inconvenience you too much. Pictures would be great naturally, but no trouble for me if that is not easy to do for whatever reason (I will still be visiting at some point).


WORKING TITLERE-House

SUMMARY INFORMATION

PROJECT TYPEIntergenerational Housing/Community

PROPOSED SITEDetroit, (Brush Park, Woodward Ave)


DRAFT STATEMENT OF INTENT

The intent of this project is to address the economic and social instabilities inherent to the system of single-family home ownership that has dominated American housing system for the past 100 years. The financial system of the world reels in the wake of debt management crisis and the housing market is as volatile as ever. The question of multi generational living is not simply a matter of preference, but is becoming a necessary reality for many Americans today due to weak job markets and uncertain social security. By consolidating the abilities and resources of a family-unit architecturally, the unit will become more stable and rediscover the lost benefits of living together. By reexamining the social contract within the family unit and questioning the traditional premise of “independence”, I believe that a revitalized system of family codependences can be established architecturally.


OUTSIDE EXPERT(S)
1. Sociology
2. Human Development and Family Studies
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3. Geography



ARCHITECTURAL ISSUE(S) TO BE ADDRESSED



ISSUES, THEMES, and THEORIES:

Intergenerational living
Communal living/housing communities
Aging with the context of a family
Changing family relationships w.r.t. age
Economics of housing and families
Healthcare and Childcare
Common space versus private space
Systems theory relating to family groups
Independence versus dependence
Maturity and contribution
Theory relating to social contracts
Community interactions

QUESTIONS and HYPOTHESES:

Amount/type of shared spaces?
Number of buildings?
Community versus unit?
Degree of privacy?
Flexibility of space?
Nomadic versus stationary families?
The American way?
Historical and foreign precedents?
New Immigrants as population?
Coexistence?





This proposal addresses many themes and issues that are very relevant to our current cultural condition. Economically, living together is becoming an increasingly popular trend for families all over the United States. Interestingly an intergenerational household is also the way that most of the inhabitants of the earth live and have lived throughout human history. Only in recent history has the “American way” encouraged the sort of radical independence that has dominated our culture for the past hundred years. I believe that a reexamination of the possibility of living within a community of family (and families) has the potential to address many problems (not only economic, but social as well) that have arisen from this unsustainable American housing system.


PROPOSED PROJECT TYPE

Either a single extended family residential structure or more likely a community of similar intergenerational “family groups”. The occupants of a unit would be considered a mature couple and the generations older and younger (their kids and their parents). The square footage of the overall project depends on how many family units are included in the design. I think that 4 – 8 family units is probably the range that I am looking at. Any larger of a community would foster a degree of anonymity that defeats some of the main goals of the project. The challenges of the programming will be to create spaces that allow families to take care of one another in a communal setting while also maintaining a sense of privacy and independence. It will be critical to have a working understanding of how a family operates as a system and the needs of each person within the commons environment. Outside of the individual family, there is also the question of how architecture can affect the way that extended families interact with their neighbors to form a social community that bridges generations.

Another question that poses some interesting possibilities is the population that will occupy the proposed structure. In the economically depressed area of Detroit, there is a need for the investment of families to repopulate and reinvigorate the area. Simultaneously there are many areas of the country that have shortages of housing for newly arriving immigrants as well as “established Americans”. The interesting relationship derives from the fact that most people around the world that make up the population of potential immigrants already live in an intergenerational setting. This means that there is an opportunity for “experienced intergenerational” families from abroad to live side by side with “newly intergenerational” families originating here in the United States. The two typologies of family have much in common, but also much to learn from each other.




DESCRIPTION OF PROPOSED SITE

The exact location of the project remains uncertain, but I believe that this sort of project would manifest most effectively as either a type of interurban “re-housing” or potentially as a modification of the existing urban development system that exists all over the United States. Right now I am considering the site to be the Brush Park/Woodward Avenue neighborhoods of Detroit. This area was once an extremely prosperous residential neighborhood, but recently has fallen into abandonment and parts of it have been leveled into a strange sort of urban prairie. Proximity to a major city-center like downtown Detroit provides economic and social impetus for all age groups within a family to settle down. There are also environmental, social, and economic benefits to living in a city that are becoming more apparent in today’s climate.

The reimagining of abandoned housing/architecture in the Detroit area will also dovetail with the theme of reintroducing the notion of family living groups and traditional family compounds. Essentially the site will make possible and emphasize the “re-ness” of the project (repopulate, redefine, re-house, reconnect, return). There is also the opportunity to take advantage of the economic and infrastructural incentives of building in this area.


INTEREST AND EXPERTISE

My interest in this project stems initially from an interest in diagrams, systems, and history. I believe that the social and economic climate of today is demanding a new look at how Americans have traditionally (for the past ~100 years) separated from family to pursue an independent existence. The current system relies on working parents being able to support their children until they can support themselves and at the same time saving up resources to support themselves in their old age. This system is becoming increasingly less stable as children are becoming independent at far latter ages and elders are not able to count on investments or social security to stay afloat. Aside from economics, there is also the question of social stability as elders spend their last years isolated in a far off nursing home and adolescents spend their youth isolated behind the veil of telecommunications. I am interested in exploring what changes to this system are required to sustain comfortable and sociable dwelling for all generations. I believe that describing the relationships and abilities of a family as a diagram or system will be an interesting and productive way to address the changes that are occurring in an architectural way.

I believe that this particular project will mesh well with my interests and studies outside of my architecture education as well. Over the last 4 years I have completed a geography minor, which included classes that emphasized human-spatial relationships, as well as American cultural development and historical collective resource utilization. These external studies will give me a basis in history and cultural evolution that will tie in to my investigation into what is happening now.


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[LEFT][LEFT]GOALS FOR THE THESIS[/LEFT][/LEFT]
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I believe that this thesis will help me to better understand the implications of spatial design on the interaction of pieces of a system. By focusing on a community of families (and the family as a community) I will hopefully be able to develop a more complete understanding of how architecture shapes and is shaped by the community that utilizes the space. Navigating the commons environment in the context of intergenerational multi-family living will also be an important stepping-stone to understanding community based design. I believe that this sort of understanding will be very useful in my future career as an architect and will serve as a solid starting point for further analysis in graduate school.



LITERATURE REVIEW

Charles H Mindel - Intergenerational Family Households: Recent Trends and Implications for the Future
Raymond T Coward - The Composition of Intergenerational Households that Include Elders

Philip Cohen – In Whose Home? Intergenerational Families in The United States, 1998 – 2000
Camilo Garcia – What do we mean by extended family? A closer look at Hispanic intergenerational families
Steven Ruggles – Intergenerational Families in Nineteenth-century America
Akiko Hashimoto – Living arrangements of the aged in seven developing countries: A preliminary analysis
Frances M Carp – Housing and Minority-Group Elderly
Robert Sharoff – Detroit Architecture
Wayne Andrews – Architecture in Michigan
W. Hawkins Ferry – The Buildings of Detroit A History
Phillip Stafford – Elderburbia: Aging with a Sense of Place in America
Eve Blau – The Architecture of Red Vienna
Avi Freidman – Grow Home
Hans Cornelissen – Dwelling as a Figure of Thought
Eric Firley – The Urban Housing Handbook
Pilar Chueca – Urban Houses
Francisco Cerver – The Architecture of Multiresidential Buildings



ARCHITECTURAL PRECEDENTS

Collective House – Sven Markelius
Elemental Monterrey – Alejandro Aravena

Gemeindebau Projects
Das Rote Haus – Hubert Gessner
Karl-Marx-Hof – Karl Ehn

Fernau and Hartman
Cheesecake Cohousing Consortium – Fernau and Hartman
Dow House – Fernau and Hartman

Traditional world vernacular housing?


OTHER SOURCES FOR INFORMATION

I am hoping to involve members of the faculty in Human Development/Family Studies and Sociology. I may also look for the input of members of the Penn State geography department.
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[Magnatomicflux]

I wish I could help you. Have you seen this place? Seems like it might fit your needs: detroit - Google Maps

I honestly don't know if it's still there, or receiving rehab though. I havn't been by it in a couple years.


If Retroit can't get the oppertunity to help you out, I would suggest www.detroityes.com/ if you havn't already.

They WILL know. There are some people that know the history of damn near every building that has gone up in Detroit.

There can be lots of jerks on that site at times, but they will have what you need 90% of the time. They will at the very least be able to tell you what it's current state is.


Good luck!

[dalien14]

Thanks for the tip. Another beautiful building.

Also. I found a more recent aerial picture of the stable building I am interested in. Looks like it has some scaffolding up around the peaks of the roof. possibly stabilizing work.

[Retroit]

Please allow me to be brutally honest. This building would absolutely not suit your needs as described in your thesis. If an extended family has to resort to living together due to financial hardship, there is no way they will be able to afford making this site suitable for habitation.


Some of the mansions in Brush Park have been restored in recent years. Some have costed over a millions dollars. This piece of property that you are interested has serious problems:

• The front 2 structures (or 2/3 of the total) need to be completely demolished. They were commercial buildings. It would take a genius architect to even make them look like a residential structure.
• The back building (stable) needs to be completely gutted. Only the exterior brick shell could be salvaged.
• The stable is at the rear of the property. It would be preferable to have a house either centered on the property or located further from John R. and more toward Alfred.
• The stable was never a home, so you would have to be creative to make it look like a home. Not impossible, but a challenge.
• Who knows what kind of soil contamination you might have, not to mention asbestos. Demolishing commercial buildings is an expensive and time consuming process.
• This is really not the right neighborhood for extended families, where you will have children and elderly. I'd say it is more suited to the young and single, or childless couples.
• Doing any kind of construction, demolition, rezoning, etc. in Detroit is a frustrating process as the city is run by very incompetent people.

Honestly -and I know this is not the "trendy" answer- you can buy a pretty good 4 bedroom house in the suburbs for $40-80,000. It will need minimal renovation and is in the right neighborhood, etc. Even a larger house with 5-6 bedrooms will cost much, much less than it will cost to renovate this stable.

If I were going to do something with this property, I would tear down all but the stable. I'd turn the stable into a garage (for parking, not fixing cars). And I'd build a completely new Victorian replica home. I'd try to buy the next property over so the home wouldn't be so close to John R. I would probably build either a duplex or triplex, but try to make it look like a single family mansion from the exterior. The building-owner could live in one unit and rent out the other half or 2/3 of the building to generate some revenue. Total cost including demolition would be several hundred thousand dollars, if not more. I would do it not to make affordable housing, but because I love Victorian homes and historic neighborhoods. Oh, and most importantly, I would win the Mega-Millions and/or Powerball before beginning.

But just for the sake of you finishing this thesis, I am more than willing to help out. My "relationship to the city" is that I live about 9 miles from this building in a suburb of Detroit. I know many people that grew up in Detroit when it was a nice city and their stories always interested me. I have family in Windsor, Ontario (across the Detroit River) that we used to visit when I was young, which allowed me an opportunity to see Detroit on a regular basis (something which many suburban kids do not do). I am interested in history and architecture, and I have had the spare time to drive around exploring Detroit.

The concept of extended families living together is interesting, but very impractical. It sounds good, but rarely works out. The problem is that people don't get along, mainly because they are not forced to by poverty, which is what kept extended families together in olden days. People today are too set in their ways and lifestyles. People move to often, either for employment or to "move up" into a nicer house. Siblings rivalry often lasts into adulthood. Throw in the in-laws and you have a cauldron of animosity. I'm afraid most families are more like the Jerry Springer Show than The Waltons.

There is something to be said for multi-family dwellings though, even if they don't house relatives. There is a certain economy to sharing walls and land. Heating and cooling costs are lower as less area is exposed to the outside. Construction costs are slightly less. Overall maintenance is less. But there are many disadvantages: noise, smells, congestion, lack of boundaries and responsibilities, etc. It's been my experience that multi-family dwelling is better accommodated by larger apartment complexes and condominium associations that are professionally managed.