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What can y'll tell me about Detroit and Gibraltar. We got a call today re: a job in Gibraltar. Houses in both places seem dirt cheap. Is it insane to consider living in Detroit? I've seen some gorgeous homes for ridiculously low prices, and I'd like to be near good Catholic schools. What about Gibraltar? The comments here don't seem that positive. As for crime, my wife works in federal law enforcement, and I have a CHL and would get an MI one once I got there. I'm in higher ed, and there seem to be numerous colleges in the area.
Gibraltor is about as far away you can get from Detroit while still even being considered apart of Detroit. It's literally just a small town on the southern edge of Wayne County. Don't terribly hear much about it and a few other posters might know the community a little more personally, but for the most part, it's a small little town away from the busyness of the metro.
What can y'll tell me about Detroit and Gibraltar. We got a call today re: a job in Gibraltar. Houses in both places seem dirt cheap. Is it insane to consider living in Detroit? I've seen some gorgeous homes for ridiculously low prices, and I'd like to be near good Catholic schools. What about Gibraltar? The comments here don't seem that positive. As for crime, my wife works in federal law enforcement, and I have a CHL and would get an MI one once I got there. I'm in higher ed, and there seem to be numerous colleges in the area.
We have friends who live in Gibraltar right on the water. If you're boat people it's great. It's literally a little secluded island. However, the schools aren't that great. But if you're going to send your kids to Catholic schools that wouldn't be a concern.
Gibraltar is part of the area known as Downriver. With the exception of Grosse Ile, Downriver was once pretty much factories and factory workers, and the familes of people providing services to the factories and workers. Many areas were pretty blue collar. However that has changed and it is more balanced now. It is pretty much decent to nice suburbia, except the cities really close to Detroit which are not very nice (Melvindale, River Rouge, Ecorse, Lincoln Park).
Gibraltar is a small town. There is not much of a town at all, a few stores/resturuants and mostly houses. Many of the houses are on or near the water. The houses tend towards the smallish side. The schools are not great and crime rate is moderately low, but higher than some downriver areas. Erie Metropark is just outside of Gibraltar. There is a wave pool there that is pretty neat. Gibraltar is somewhat boat/fishing oriented. It is far away from pretty much everything. Monroe is closer than Detroit. Toledo may well be closer than Detroit, it is pretty much even I think. I cannot help much with Catholic schools in Gibraltar, there is one in Monroe, and one that is maybe in Brownstown or somewhere in that vicinity. The one in central downriver (possibly brownstown) whose name escapes me for the moment is better known. Some people from Grosse Ile even send their kids there because they want them to have a Catholic education (Grosse Ile has some of the best public schools in the state).
Trenton has a cute little downtown with not much in it. Schools are probably the best in Downriver outside of Grosse Ile. Trenton is more of a town than Gibraltar, however despite also being right ont he water, Trenton is not that Boat oriented. Trenton has a great Coutny park at the edge of downtown (Elizabeth Park). Trenton neighbors Wyandotte which has a fun downtwon (expecially on Third Fridays) and lots of places to eat shop and drink. Trenton also adjoins woodhaven which is the chain store and chain resturaunt mecca for the gernal area. Trenton is generally considered an upscale town from Gibraltar.
Detroit would be a challenge with kids. There are some good high schools, a few elementary schools and some execellent Catholic schools. However there are few places where kids can safely hang out and play. Some neighborhoods are safe, but if they wander a few blocks in the wrong direction, it can get sketchy really fast. Some areas, you absolutely would nto want to live in. Mid-town and downtown Detroit are fun and reasonably safe, but not really family places. The family suitable neighborhoods have private secuirity and some are really nice (amazing amount of house for the money), but your kids shuold not leave your neighborhood without you. You prettymuch have to drive from youe neighborhood to the nxt safe destinaton without wanderng about. Bad and good areas are scattered, it is not like one part of town is good and the other area is bad. Detroit charges its residents an additioanl income tax and property taxes tend to be higher than you woudl expect. City services outside of Midtown downtown are pretty poor. More wealthy areas pay for private services. Other areas just gamble. We considered living in Detroit, but decided while it woudl be fund for us, it is too much of a challenge for kids.
There are a lot of neat places between Gibraltar and Detrtoit to consider and a whole lot more if you also swing out to the West. Is there some reason you are focusing only on Gibraltar and Detroit?
Saw Gabriel Richard, looks like a solid school. My spouse's work would be in Gibraltar, and after living in DFW for grad school, I don't want to deal with 1.5 hr commutes from the nice neighborhoods on the north side.
If you are just looking for the nicest place to live, Grosse Ile is as nice as any neighborhood on the North Side. Actually considerably nicer for my priorities. However Grosse Ile is expensive. If you can afford Grosse Ile, it does not make much sense to live elsewhere downriver unless you are looking for an urban lifestyle and do not have kids (or will stick entirely with private schools and want an urban type of downtown), then Wyandotte is probably the best choice downriver. If you do not seek urban type living and just want nice balanced with cheap, then probably Trenton. If you just want to live in a nice subdivision and do not care about a town, most of the nicer downriver cities have some, in that case, just pick the sub you like. I would stick near Gibraltar (Gibraltar, Brownstown, Flat Rock, Trenton, Woodhaven, Rockford or Rockport, and Riverview). You could even go south to Newport (if you like farms).
Here is some basic info about Grosse Ile and Downriver gnerally that I wrote a while back. It is long and covers all kinds of information you did not ask, but I do not have time to edit it right now. Not directed necessarily to you, but easy to cut and paste:
You would be amazed to see Wyandotte today. It has gotten very nice. Grosse Ile is very different form 30 years ago too. The Detroit River is much cleaner. You can swim and fish in it without much concern. (Look up information to be sure you are comfortable, but it is a lot cleaner than 30 years ago. We have no problems with it).
If you do not have kids Wyandotte might be a better option for you. It has a decent little downtown with lots of shops and restaurants. There are a lot more rentals there and it is considerably cheaper. Crime is more prevalent, but it is not bad. Certain areas tend to be more problematic. However the Downtown area along the waterfront which is where you want to be, is pretty safe. Also consider Trenton. Not as exciting, but if you found a rental at the edge of Elizabeth Park it would be very nice.
If you have kids, you want to be in Grosse Ile. Without kids if you can afford Grosse Ile, it is nicer. However Grosse Ile is pretty quiet. Super nice and pleasant, but not exciting. A rental house will cost around $1600 - $2600 per month depending on size and location. Apartments or condos are cheaper but they are pretty scarce. Grosse Ile is mostly SFR.
Grosse Ile is a confined space (14 islands) and has a distinct identity with a focused downtown (of sorts. Gross Ile is very community focused. There are a lot of community events.
Grosse Ile is small (10,000). The main group f islands is 10 miles long and shaped kid of like a cigar or an elongated egg. At the widest, it is about 2 miles wide.
Grosse Ile is mostly a place to live. There are no office complexes. There are no major streets. The highest speed limit on any street is 35 and most streets are25. I think there are three traffic lights, maybe four. The closest freeway is 15 minutes away. The bulk of Grosse Ile residents are families and retirees. There are very few young single people or dinks. Deer are all over the place, including in the streets and in your yard. Lots of trees (forests) lots of water, lots of wild animals. When you drive, you have to be careful. Animals are everywhere. Kids playing, bicycles, joggers, neighbors walking dogs people coming and going form the water with sfishing poles. . . it is like a dodge em video game sometimes. Not a place to be in a hurry.
In the "downtown" there are a dozen or so restaurants (good but not great). A Large chain grocery store (Kroger) with a Starbucks inside. A small independant grocery (Nates Market); a hardware store and a bakery. There are a couple of gas stations, a handful of banks and realtors and some art shops and gift shops. Kroger, the bakery and Cathys Diner tend to be the social centers for the community.
Housing is mostly older and mostly SFR. There are some subdivisions on the inside portions of the islands. There is one condo I can think of along the water. Otherwise water front lots are all older large SFR and mostly one house per acre. You can find some newer and smaller houses on the canal or where there is no water access. Some of the subdivisions are newish, some even have Mansions standing side by side if that is what you like. They are building some new houses in several of the formerly unfinished subdivsions and a few along the water (very few, most of the waterfront is taken so there is little new without tearing something down). There are maybe as many as six apartment buildings and five or six condo complexes that I can think of. Most condos and apartments are large and nice. There is a little bit of lower end housing, but not a lot. Grosse Ile is somewhat anti growth. We do not want a bunch of subdivisions and strip malls all over the place. Pretty much everyone loves Grosse Ile the way it is. Quiet, peaceful, natural, no traffic, slow paced, virtually no crime.
The amenities the township offers are amazing. The township owns and operates:
A golf club with a community pool (outdoor);
A marina
a small airport for hobbyists and community events (the blimps also dock here when they are in the area).
A viewing dock
A pavilion and small park where they have musical performances on Sunday evenings in the summer.
A beach/canoe and kayak launch (this is new it is not open as a beach, but there is a beach there. It is supposed to be a place to picnic and launch small boats for now. This property was acquired from the county and then cleaned up over a series of weekends by community volunteers last year. An eagle scout then built a stairway for access.
A playscape playground. Again this was built by community volunteers.
600+ acres of green space. When a developer wants to build another subdivision, the township buys the land and designates it as green space. Most of the green space is just woods. There are some trails going through it (one of the trails was another eagle scout project).
A lot of bike trails. However people bike and jog all over the islands. We frequently host run/walkathons, bi-athalons and similar events. Some of them bring 2000 people. The biggest is a half marathon/3 or 5K walk/run for Cyctic Fibrosis in March (usually).
A sledding hill and two soccer fields.
The historical society has two old buildings on one lot. One is a museum. They also take responsibility for maintaining the old light (kind of like a lighthouse, but no one lived in it).
A farm/community center (the barns are rented out to an equestrian outfit and people keep their horses there. Kids can also take riding lessons there).
In the private sector, there are two golf clubs (one by a famous designer); three boating (yacht) clubs; a tennis club; a dance/gymnastics school; an Alpaca farm; and Azalia farm (where they have things like haunted forest hay rides cider and doughnut bon fires, Christmas hay or sleigh rides, and a remarkably beautiful garden open to the public when it is not used for weddings and the like).
There are 5 churches. Catholic, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, independent (formerly Baptist) and Lutheran. There is another new church that meets in a hall somewhere, but it is just starting up. The churches coordinate various events between them and do an occasional service or event jointly. They sometimes put on a joint Thanksgiving service for all denominations and also put on a huge Christmas thing called Boards Head Festival every four years or so. (Look it up – Google Boars Head Grosse Ile). It is a huge deal. About 500 people take part in putting it on and thousands come watch).
There are quite a few clubs. Kiwanis, Rotary, Garden Club, Herb Society (not pot, this is Michigan not California), Island Beautification committee. .. . a bunch more. Politically it is mostly conservative Republican, it could be as much as 25% democrat, I am not sure of the numbers. Income ranges from Uber wealthy to people on assistance (welfare). The not rich people are mostly older people, but there are some exceptions. The Churches do a good job of helping them out, if they know about them. Everyone mixes together pretty well.
It is mostly white. There are less than a dozen black people that we know of and an equal number of Hispanics. We do have some Canadians for diversity.
The schools are excellent but small. There are two elementary schools (divided into K-3 at one school and 4-5 at the other school). One middle school and one high school. The high school has about 700 kids total. The focus is on basic academics. They do not offer a lot of non-core classes (some but not a ton). Foreign language for example is pretty much limited to Spanish or German. They offer about 15-20 AP classes, but many of the AP classes are only offered periodically. Pretty much everyone goes to college. Most go with some kind of scholarship. Grosse Ile is a bad school for kids who just want to go to class and go home. It is a great school for kids who participate in something. Almost all of the kids participate in something. Marching band is huge. I think they have over 100 kids in the band. Due to changes in demographics, the school population gets smaller every year. It is now a school of choice so people from other communities can bring their kids over if they want a better school system. So far this has not resulted in any major problems.
At the high school the big sports are golf, rowing (crew), tennis, sailing, and of course football. There are other teams, but they do not seem to get that much attention. The cheer team seems to do very well. Our kids were/are involved in vocal music and band, drama (and musicals), cultural awareness club, and academic clubs; anime club, creative writing club (this one is the least involved); crew and auto tech. The youngest will probably be involved in band, soccer and maybe theater.
Only a few of the newly wealthy residents are into ostentatious displays of wealth. The uber wealthy tend to drive Fords or chevys and you would not realize they have hundreds of millions in assets
There are several non-school sports teams for kids. Two types of soccer, two types of hockey, baseball, jr. football (does very well), equestrian, dance/gymnastics, I do not know what all else. I think there is a lacrosse team not sure whether they are school or club. Some are club sports but connected with the school. The crew team for example is a club sport, but the kids must follow school rules to participate (grades, behavior etc).
There is a zero tolerance policy for bullying and fighting. Sometimes it is a bit absurd.
There are several booster type organizations for parents, PTO, GIFT (Grosse Ile for Teens), and various sports groups.
There are various parades and community events. Most are on Macomb Street, some are at the airport.
Crime:
Crime is rare aside from speeding, drunk driving, petty theft, and occasional spousal disputes. Once in a while we have a weird crime. Possibly once a year. Many people leave their keys in their cars so they do not lose their keys. Many boats sit open at their docks in the summer. People shopping at Kroger or Nates usually leave their cars unlocked and open. Occasionally someone will get the great idea to go steal phones and purses, or pilfer a bicycle or a boat motor, but it is not common. No one drives through Grosse Ile. You drive to the islands or from them, but there is no pass through traffic. Normally no one comes here unless they are visiting someone. This reduces crime.
Some of the roughly once a year weird crimes have been:
Two kids from another town were stealing things from unlocked cars at Kroger. The police figured it out and waited for them. When caught, they jumped into their cars and took off. One of them was cut off on one of the two bridges. He got out of his car and brandished a pocket knife at the police. They told him to stop being silly. He jumped off the bridge to escape and drowned. His partner got across the other bridge but was apprehended later.
A lady was depressed and wanted to die. She called the police and told them someone had been shot. She waited for them in the back yard with a shotgun. After they tried to talk her into putting the gun down, she picked it up and charged at them and they shot her. (Suicide by cop) the shotgun was not loaded.
In about 2000 a couple of kids from another town had a party at an apartment on Grosse Ile. They decided to test the date rape drug and see what it would do. They slipped it into drinks of three girls. One of the girls died. All f the people involved were not from Grosse Ile. They guy whose apartment it was out of town, but allowed the boys to use it for their party. He also supplied the drug to them. He went to jail along with the boys.
A German exchange student bullied a high school girl who had just broken up with her boyfriend. After a string of text messages from the German exchange student, she became despondent and drank a bottle of brake fluid and died. The exchange students parents whisked her back to Germany before any decision was made about prosecuting her.
A guy from out of town went on a stealing rampage. He took things from open cars, stole a car, ran it out of gas, stole another car. The police closed the bridges and chased him around until he crashed the car. He ran away and hid in the dumpster behind Kroger. They found him with dogs. (He took my wife's purse from her car in our driveway).
There was a string of 8 burglaries. Everyone got panicky. People started locking their doors. after about two weeks, they caught the guy. He was a resident who had lost his job.
A guy visiting his mother, decided to steal her gun and go rob the local bank. The tellers were like “Bill, what the heck are you doing? You mom is going to be mad.” Needless to say he got caught.
A few days after hosting the moving homeless shelter thing someone went to our church and stole the offering from the safe (which used to be left open). They did not get much cash and just dropped the checks on the road on the way back to the bridge. I never heard whether they caught that one.
To the best of my knowledge, nearly every time we have some crime pop up, the perpetrator got caught. There is nowhere to escape to. Other than pilfered bikes and boat motors, I have not heard of any significant crime going unsolved.
Living with Winter:
Can I cope with winter? Wrong attitude. How can I enjoy and look forward to winter. Right attitude.
Winter is fun. There are a lot of neat things to do in winter. A cold crisp day is refreshing.
The first step to enjoy winter is to stay warm. Wear a hat and gloves. Not wearing them is just dumb. You can also wear a scarf, put hand warmers in your gloves and boots or shoes. If necessary you can wear long underwear. There is no reason to ever be cold if you are prepared. Put remote starters on your cars (about $150). Warm up your car before you go to it. Heated seats are a big plus too. If you dress nice, carry walking shoes coat hat gloves etc in your car in case you get stuck, break down or have an accident. IF you can park inside a garage it will help.
Driving in winter takes practice. Front wheel drive is better than rear wheel drive, until you learn the ropes. All wheel drive or 4x4 is best. We get maybe 10-20 bad driving days a year. You will struggle until you get some experience.
We do not get a ton of snow. I wish there were more. Snow comes and melts and then comes and melts. Our weather is often different than the mainland. The water must temper things a bit. Sometimes they get snow across the bridge and we get rain. One time it was clear and sunny in Trenton and we got a snowstorm.
The big downsides to winter IMO are not cold or snow, it is the length of winter and the lack of sunlight. During the winter, it gets light at around 9 a.m. and gets dark again as early as 4 p.m. IT is also often cloudy.
Lately our winters have not been very cold. We have warm days (50+) through November. Rarely do we get any significant or lasting snow until mid to late December. January and February are often bitterly cold (below 0) with occasional warm spots lasting a few days (as high as 68 or even 72) then it drops back down. From late February through mid April the weather is anybody’s guess. It could be anywhere from 80s to -10. Some years it is nice and stays nice, some years it is cold all the way, some years it jumps around.
Other than winter weather is dramatic. It rains frequently and some of the storms are like nothing you see in California. Heavy rain, wind, thunder and lightning. Sun showers (rain when it is warm and sunny) are awesome. There is lots of mud. You just have to get over that. Some days you can have every kind of weather there is warm and sunny, rain, snow. Temperatures can change 50-60 degrees in 24 hours. Earthquakes, tornados, floods, fires are very rare and we have never been affected by any. No hurricanes here.
Summer gets muggy in August. We do not have air conditioning and for several weeks each year we really wish we had it. Fall is absolutely wonderful. Not only great weather usually, but beautiful fall colors and an indescribably charge in the atmosphere. Everyone agrees, fall is the best. Better than anywhere else too.
Employment downriver:
Not great, not terrible. The main employers are the auto factories, Henry Ford Hospital, and BASF chemical in Wyandotte. Kroger is a big employer as are the schools. There are some small law firms, insurance agencies and some other service businesses scattered about. Minimum wage jobs for unskilled workers are few and most are limited to part time to avoid benefits. How hard it will be to find a job will depend on your skills, experience and luck. Some people have a hard time and it takes months or years, some people find great jobs in a few days or weeks. Detroit is not far away and there are a lot of office jobs in Detroit. Dearborn has a lot of Businesses, primarily relating to Ford, and the two colleges. A lot of the remaining S.E. Michigan business is in North Oakland County. That is a long commute for Downriver. I do not know anyone who is unemployed. I know a lot of people who are underemployed.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 03-11-2013 at 11:23 AM..
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