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Old 03-17-2013, 07:12 PM
 
424 posts, read 548,803 times
Reputation: 240

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chiroptera,
like I said above, I have now put the taxes in the job listing.

I put the need for background checks in the ad, they all agreed to this before coming out to meet us. I use a website that obtains the background checks for me and I also run their names thru other data banks. Not one of them was taken by surprise, the need for background checks is in the ad, and all of the ladies had clean background checks. One told me about a speeding ticket and it was on her driving record as she told me ahead of time, I did not hold it against her, I believe she was being honest, and I offered her the job at the salary and benefits she requested,then she bailed on me the next day.

I am extremely upfront.

The tax evasion is surprising to me. That took ME by surprise.

I don't understand why you feel I am in the wrong by paying my nanny's unemployment and FICA taxes. This is the law in the country I live in - USA.

Please be more specific about what I am doing wrong - I really want to understand this.
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:22 PM
 
424 posts, read 548,803 times
Reputation: 240
zthatzmanz28,

can you explain the I-9 comment?
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:24 PM
 
Location: SE Michigan
6,191 posts, read 18,095,448 times
Reputation: 10355
Quote:
Originally Posted by dburbs1975 View Post
chiroptera,
like I said above, I have now put the taxes in the job listing.

I put the need for background checks in the ad, they all agreed to this before coming out to meet us. I use a website that obtains the background checks for me and I also run their names thru other data banks. Not one of them was taken by surprise, the need for background checks is in the ad, and all of the ladies had clean background checks. One told me about a speeding ticket and it was on her driving record as she told me ahead of time, I did not hold it against her, I believe she was being honest, and I offered her the job at the salary and benefits she requested,then she bailed on me the next day.

I am extremely upfront.

The tax evasion is surprising to me. That took ME by surprise.

I don't understand why you feel I am in the wrong by paying my nanny's unemployment and FICA taxes. This is the law in the country I live in - USA.

Please be more specific about what I am doing wrong - I really want to understand this.
If you are in fact being transparent and upfront, then I really don't understand why the need for evasion.
Again, I think you need to be more crystal clear about your hiring parameters...other than that I got nothin'.
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:43 PM
 
424 posts, read 548,803 times
Reputation: 240
Chiroptera, I want to say thanks to you. I am trying to gain insight and at least you are giving me another point of view.

I was really surprised that going thru a reputable website for child care that required identifying information from both parties would result in applicants expecting money under the table.

I put the taxes in my job post today and will see if I get responses.

The last bailing nanny even told me what she needed extra to get paid on the books. I thought about it then gave her exactly what she wanted. She still bailed. She is just a person who wants to live in a safe civilized society but thinks someone else should pay the bill. She wrote a really nice polite email explaining that she just can't do it.

I believe this is just a symptom of a much larger problem. I see that it may be less of a hassle to hire a legal overseas au pair thru a reputable agency rather than a local US citizen from my own area.
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:53 PM
 
Location: SE Michigan
6,191 posts, read 18,095,448 times
Reputation: 10355
Quote:
Originally Posted by dburbs1975 View Post
Chiroptera, I want to say thanks to you. I am trying to gain insight and at least you are giving me another point of view.

I was really surprised that going thru a reputable website for child care that required identifying information from both parties would result in applicants expecting money under the table.

I put the taxes in my job post today and will see if I get responses.

The last bailing nanny even told me what she needed extra to get paid on the books. I thought about it then gave her exactly what she wanted. She still bailed. She is just a person who wants to live in a safe civilized society but thinks someone else should pay the bill. She wrote a really nice polite email explaining that she just can't do it.

I believe this is just a symptom of a much larger problem. I see that it may be less of a hassle to hire a legal overseas au pair thru a reputable agency rather than a local US citizen from my own area.
It is not only an issue with employee/contractors. I am self employed in the home improvement industry and believe me I have NEVER asked to be paid in cash or off the books in any way...but many of my customers pay me cash.

Then it is up to me to declare or not....same as it is for people you hire.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:03 PM
 
424 posts, read 548,803 times
Reputation: 240
Chiroptera,
when you are doing a contract job, it is up to you to claim what you made.

A nanny is a household employee and the laws are different when you hire a nanny, cook, eldercare, housecleaner, etc. Once you pay them over a threshhold amount per year, you are required to pay unemployment (state and federal), and FICA. If you don't pay the taxes and the person then leaves your job and files for unemployment, you are up a creek. You can be liable for all the back taxes plus interest and penalties. You can also go to jail if it has been going on for years.

When you fail to pay taxes as a contractor, the same can happen, but the person who hired you for the job won't get penalized.

The issue here is that the parents hiring the nanny have everything to lose, the nanny has nothing, or very little to lose.

The laws about household employment are quite strict because of this country's history with slavery. It is to protect the household help, it is not to hurt them, I am just so surprised that these young women do not want the benefits of being paid on the books.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:14 PM
 
639 posts, read 1,955,266 times
Reputation: 1324
Quote:
Originally Posted by dburbs1975 View Post
Chiroptera, I want to say thanks to you. I am trying to gain insight and at least you are giving me another point of view.

I was really surprised that going thru a reputable website for child care that required identifying information from both parties would result in applicants expecting money under the table.

I put the taxes in my job post today and will see if I get responses.

The last bailing nanny even told me what she needed extra to get paid on the books. I thought about it then gave her exactly what she wanted. She still bailed. She is just a person who wants to live in a safe civilized society but thinks someone else should pay the bill. She wrote a really nice polite email explaining that she just can't do it.

I believe this is just a symptom of a much larger problem. I see that it may be less of a hassle to hire a legal overseas au pair thru a reputable agency rather than a local US citizen from my own area.
Now that just sounds bizarre. You offered to make up the difference between her pay and what taxes would take out, essentially paying her taxes for her, and she still said no? Something else is going on.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:18 PM
 
Location: SE Michigan
6,191 posts, read 18,095,448 times
Reputation: 10355
There may be dynamics I'm not aware of when it comes to household employment, this is true.

Are there not household employee services that would take care of all the bothersome legalities for you? Seems to me a service such as this would be well worth while and would keep everything legal..
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,702 posts, read 79,403,084 times
Reputation: 39425
Quote:
Originally Posted by dburbs1975 View Post
I have been looking for a nanny for my children for the last six weeks. We have had four young women accept the job, and we negotiated salary & benefits, and they accepted after the negotiations. All four backed out immediately after finding out we will be paying by check, in a legal fashion, and that we will be paying taxes on their behalf.

I am left high and dry for the fourth time.

What a bunch of lowlife scum of the earth leeches.

I'm done venting.

The job has regularly scheduled hours, no weekends, paid vacation, two very well behaved kids, one in school at least half of the time, no crazy schedules, and only household duties pertaining to the kids. The neighborhood is upscale, safe, lots of parks. Our home is large, very clean, open, with lots of toys.

Any advice??
We had a series of nannies (live in) when we lived in California. We have some awesome experiences and some terrible ones. We required SS numbers, got FBI background checks, called and visited references everything we could think of. Still we had some disasters.

One gal passed everything. We went and visited her former family and they gushed about her. When she first moved in, she told us about her new granddaughter who lived about 90 miles away. We gave her a bassinette, some clothing and some diapers that our kids had outgrown. She was very appreciative.

Our prior Nanny overlapped for a couple of days so she could show her where things were and how they worked. They got along famously. Former nanny thought new nanny would be very good for us. She said she had some serious reservations at first, but she seemed ok after all. (Former nanny was very protective of the babies, she would not even leave me alone with them at first - did not trust men with babies. Apparently some sort of cultural thing She was from Sierra Leone).

Then the first weekend after the former nanny left, new nanny asked if she could borrow my wife's car to go pick some things up at the store. We always allowed them to use a car as needed. However she did not return after an hour, then two, finally we went to bed. Monday morning she still was not there. We called the police to find out if she maybe had an accident or something - nothing. Former nanny agreed to come watch the kids until we could find out what was going on. Around noon she called in a panic. She was in the laundry room with the kids hiding. New nanny came home and she was wasted in a big way. I was out of town so my wife raced home.

New nanny was drunk off her arse and literally walked into a wall twice while aiming for a hallway. She babbled incessantly and went on about how we were so awful to her. It made no sense. She was bleeding all over form walking into the wall, but did not seem to notice. My wife firmly told her to pack her stuff and get out NOW. Former Nanny came back for a few weeks, but we had to find a different place for them to go during the day. She did not want to be at our house if drunk nanny returned.

A week later, we had a check bounce. We looked into it and found we had written several checks for "CASH" totaling about $450 I think. We got copies of the checks and the signature on them was clearly not ours. Further investigation revealed the money had been deposited into new nanny's bank account. The police got involved. It turned out she had multiple identities. Separate SS numbers, license the whole works. She was wanted already on fraud charges under a different name and identity. From what we could tell she had been living respectably and doing a good job during the past four or five years using her current identity. Something happened I do not remember (a friend died I think) that sent her on a drinking binge which led to her reverting to her bad ways.

First she tried to claim former nanny was the one who forged the checks, but she had no explanation for why the money was deposited into new nanny's account. The bank decided to prosecute her which is rare, but we did not end up having to testify. A some point she called my wife screaming and swearing and saying we had ruined her life. We told her if she called or came near us again we would get a restraining order. We never heard from her again.

That was the end of our nanny attempts. We had some excellent and some not so good, and one horrid nanny. But the turn over and the weirdos we had to interview each time we looked for a new nanny caused us to find other alternatives. .
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:49 PM
 
424 posts, read 548,803 times
Reputation: 240
I thought that's what I was doing when I used an online service that needed to verify who I was before I posted a job. I used care.com and had to be verified by name/address/credit card before my job was posted. The people who applied for the job had social security numbers verified by their online system and I got the background checks initially thru the system, and it was mutually agreed upon. After I offered the job, I then got the full background check which cost me an additional $80 above the fees I pay to the website. I paid the $80 for three of the candidates, the fourth bailed before I paid it and got the background done. The $80 background check includes a driving record as well. Then, at the same time, I give the name and age to an attorney who double checks for me. I am really trying to be transparent.

This person would be in my home all day with my kids - I need the background check.

I think some of these people don't want money on the books because perhaps they are getting other benefits or someone in their household gets something like welfare or medicaid so their income would disqualify the household, I'm just not really sure.

Coldjensens,
indeed sounds like a nightmare. I'm also visiting some daycare centers this week, it costs about a third, I had originally not wanted my little one in daycare, but I am slowly getting used to the idea...
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