Grosse Pointes - Would you? (Detroit, Westland: limousine, house, neighborhoods)

[GreyDay]

Originally Posted by PA Born

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

To me, GP North isn't diverse. How is a school that's 99% white and black diverse? Places like Novi and Troy are diverse. You have immigrants from all over, not just WASP kids and incoming low income blacks, like at GP North.

I don't know how you get the claim that "its still sending more kids to prestigious colleges than virtually any other school in the region". Based on what? More than Bloomfield? More than Birmingham? Hell, more than Utica? Where do you get this data on GP North? Because there's no "prestigious university feeder school" database.

And I don't think people move to the Pointes because they "value that diversity". If so, then why are the lowest property values in the Pointes in those neighborhoods going to the most "diverse" schools?

Who exactly are the incoming low income blacks at North? While the shine has dulled on GP in general since my days at Briarcliff, it's not exactly a bastion of section 8 housing.

[PA Born]

Originally Posted by GreyDay

Who exactly are the incoming low income blacks at North? While the shine has dulled on GP in general since my days at Briarcliff, it's not exactly a bastion of section 8 housing.

I don't know the income distribution of incoming students, but there are rising % of African Americans and free/reduced lunch.

And I never said the Pointes were a bastion of Section 8 housing. For one, you don't need to live in Section 8 to be low income, and, for another, the GP schools also include part of Harper Woods, which has really gone downhill (and is a bastion of Section 8).

[where_now1]

Thanks all for their opinions.

I fear that the changing demographics in the schools...ie more low income (regardless of race) will not help real estate values. If anyone knows a suburb where real estate has performed well in the face of such a shift, I'd be curious to know. I think if Detroit were doing better, then the Pointes might do better given proximity to downtown.

A very tough decision.

[GreyDay]

Originally Posted by PA Born

I don't know the income distribution of incoming students, but there are rising % of African Americans and free/reduced lunch.

And I never said the Pointes were a bastion of Section 8 housing. For one, you don't need to live in Section 8 to be low income, and, for another, the GP schools also include part of Harper Woods, which has really gone downhill (and is a bastion of Section 8).

So just because the percentage of Blacks is increasing AND the free lunch kids are increasing doesn't mean it's automatically 'low income blacks'.

I know plenty of doctors, lawyers, engineers who have moves to the Pointes and I'm fairly certain their kids are paying the full price of their lunch.

I get your point, but jumping to conclusions that it's just poor Blacks is just that- a jump.

And for section 8 housing their is an income ceiling.

And Harper Woods has been downhill the past 20 years, so nothing new there.

[PA Born]

Originally Posted by GreyDay

So just because the percentage of Blacks is increasing AND the free lunch kids are increasing doesn't mean it's automatically 'low income blacks'.

Yes, you're techically correct. It could be that the rising number of African Americans from Detroit and the rising number of low income residents from Detroit have nothing to do with each other.

It could be that the incoming African Americans are all rich and and the incoming low income students are all WASPs or something.

I mean, if this is the narrative you prefer, that's fine, I just don't think it aligns with reality. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume some sort of correlation between the two, given that the Pointes border a 100% African American, 90% free and reduced lunch area on Detroit's East Side.

[belleislerunner]

One of these days I'll hope you recognize that just because someone's parents earn 30K doesn't make them any less human or worthy of as high quality of an education as someone whose parents make 300K.

[Tomalak]

If I were looking in the Detroit Metro, I wouldn't have to think twice about moving to the Pointes. Yes, it's true that property values have not increased as quickly as many of the other burbs, but it has been VERY stable for a long period of time. If I worked in downtown Detroit, it would be a no-brainer.

That said, if I had kids and were concerned about schools, getting them into South would also be a no-brainer. North is good, and I've always believed that good parenting makes the biggest difference when it comes to your child's educational achievement, but South definitely stands apart. That, and I prefer the areas that feed into South vs North.

The homes and neighborhoods of the Pointes are just beautiful, and Kercheval is a great commercial corridor. Any time I'm in Detroit I make sure to visit the area.

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

One of these days I'll hope you recognize that just because someone's parents earn 30K doesn't make them any less human or worthy of as high quality of an education as someone whose parents make 300K.

Who is saying that? We are merely pointing out the proven correlation that exists between resident income and the quality of school districts. Stop trying to turn the discussion into something it isn't.

[Marty711]

Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers

Who is saying that? We are merely pointing out the proven correlation that exists between resident income and the quality of school districts. Stop trying to turn the discussion into something it isn't.

In the case of GP schools, how many kids are eligible for reduced lunch? 5-10%? I doubt its a very high number. The state average is around 35%. Are GP teachers worse because 10% are eligible for it? I don't think so. It also makes the assumption that lower income students are automatically bad students and high income ones are automatically good students. As someone whose wife had access to reduced lunch when she was in school, its kind of insulting to imply that. She went on to one of the top liberal arts colleges and has a doctorate. Obviously, lower income students do tend to struggle more for many reasons, but there's plenty out there who do just fine for themselves.

Really, this thread goes to the heart of Metro Detroit's woes and why it isn't appealing to many people. That is, the area is so divided when it comes to income, race, etc. Lower income people are nearby, so property values stagnate and upper income people flee farther out or are hesitant to move in. Clearly, other metro areas suffer this, but it seems to happen more in Detroit than in any other place.

[PA Born]

Originally Posted by Marty711

In the case of GP schools, how many kids are eligible for reduced lunch? 5-10%? I doubt its a very high number. The state average is around 35%.

Wait a sec, you're now comparing the Pointes to the state average of poverty? Why, exactly?

The original claim was that the Pointes have the best schools and best community. Now you're saying that it's only better than some random average town in Michigan, like Mount Pleasant, or Alpena, or wherever.

BTW, free and reduced lunch in Grosse Pointe North and feeder schools is 20% ranging to above 50% at elementary level. That shows you the decline in the earlier years.

In many of the affluent Oakland County schools, free and reduced lunch is close to 0%.