Are The Pointes in decline?(Grosse Pointe) (Detroit, Harper Woods: felon, homes)

[DTWflyer]

Agreed with the comment above. I work for a large professional services firm downtown and I'd say that for the partners/directors in my firm I'd say 1/3 lives in Grosse Pointe, 1/3 lives in Northville/Plymouth/Ann Arbor and 1/3 lives in Birmingham/Bloomfield.

I'm pretty sure Coldjensens that we don't work for the same firm, since I don't know of anyone who lives on Grosse Ile, but people love Grosse Pointe because of the locaiton. I'd venture to guess that many of the posts above that claim otherwise about Grosse Pointe don't realize that downtown Detroit is still a huge power-center of business for many of the professional services firms, consulting firms, law firms, GM, etc. and Grosse Pointe is a highly convenient enclave that is still a desirable place to live.

The Birmingham/Bloomfield Woodward corridor agreed is highly desirable as it is also much more centrally located than Grosse Pointe. Many of those people there work in places like Southfield or Troy, or downtown Detroit. Again, if it suits your style its hard to beat the convenience of Grosse Pointe to downtown Detroit, and 10x more if you enjoy being on/near Lake St. Clair.

[us66]

Thing is, there are basically two Grosse Pointes, one with housing values under $150K (well, maybe $200K now that the bubble is reinflating) and one that is worth a lot more. The costlier Pointe areas are still very wonderful places, though looking at the GP News, there might be a bit more crime now. The plebian Pointe areas are nice, but not ohmigosh special anymore. It's aged pretty well for as old as it is. Look at the housing values for the smaller houses versus comps in Oakland (or even West Dearborn, an area with similar housing stock) and GP actually often costs less.

Problem with GP is that it is an island oasis in the lake of fire that is the east side of Detroit. Not that long ago, the Detroit side of the GP border was decent but most of it is crumbling nowadays. Large swaths of Harper Woods are now questionable (though much of it is still okay). If these areas were more stable, GP would be more stable of an investment.

[TwinbrookNine]

Lots of truth to these posts except for one thing: too many of the pro reasons for moving to the Pointes, are all emotive - not based on reality; just opinions and feelings that ignore the facts. If you let your emotions rule, you WILL get dinged eventually. I'm likely a lot older then many of these posters. They just haven't lived long enough for "dream readjustment" to set in. It takes decades of adulthood and many hours sitting in rush hour traffic (you know, that time to think things through) for that to happen.

By the way, no Pointer of any substance (outside of a pot addict) would dream of sending their kids to the GP public schools - I know that for a fact. It has a lot to do with how they got to the Pointes in the first place. UofD HS, DeLaSalle, and Regina (just to name a few) are a long haul from the Pointes. Better have a nanny with a valid drivers license.

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by TwinbrookNine

By the way, no Pointer of any substance (outside of a pot addict) would dream of sending their kids to the GP public schools - I know that for a fact. It has a lot to do with how they got to the Pointes in the first place. UofD HS, DeLaSalle, and Regina (just to name a few) are a long haul from the Pointes. Better have a nanny with a valid drivers license.

Good point. I know a few families who live in GP and they are all the most class obsessed people I have ever met in my life. Apparently the most important thing for people who live in GP is having the right friends, being a member of the right clubs and societies, going to the right parties, etc. We had our one GP friends over for dinner and all they did was moan and complain about how they weren't invited to this party, but they did so much for the beautification committee...blah, blah, blah. Apparently having shallow relationships with the "right" kind of people is the most important things in their life. It doesn't seem like a fun way to live.

[zach_33]

Originally Posted by TwinbrookNine

By the way, no Pointer of any substance (outside of a pot addict) would dream of sending their kids to the GP public schools - I know that for a fact.

Wow, really? Given the test scores I see for schools in the GP district, those children of pot-addicted parents must be freakishly intelligent. Maybe I should start smoking the stuff so that my kids will start testing two standard deviations above the mean.

[Cliffie]

Originally Posted by Seatown1

I cannot fathom why anybody would want to live in the Pointes. They are too geographically-isolated from the rest of metro Detroit. Most of the shopping, restaurants jobs, etc. are located in Oakland and Macomb Counties, along with Wayne County suburbs west of Detroit. The area (in general) is on the decline as Oakland County and suburbs west of Detroit are where new residents are moving. Let's not forget the elephant in the room; the Pointes are located right on the doorstep of Detroit. Just a mile or two away are some of the most dilapidated, crime-ridden parts of America. If you have enough money to live in a decent suburb, why live a stone's throw away from Detroit?

Well, Grosse Pointe Woods is a short sprint away from Macomb County, if that matters. And there is nothing wrong with being on the doorstep of Detroit, where they keep things like the DIA that you can't get in Oakland County.

[us66]

Originally Posted by zach_33

Wow, really? Given the test scores I see for schools in the GP district, those children of pot-addicted parents must be freakishly intelligent. Maybe I should start smoking the stuff so that my kids will start testing two standard deviations above the mean.

The southern schools are doing a lot better than some of the northern schools. From what I have heard (from someone not long retired from the school district) the kids coming in from Detroit are often functionally illiterate and are dragging down the test scores, and there are some behavior problems as of late. Still a good school district, though, and for what you pay in school taxes there, you may as well use them.

[zach_33]

Behavior problems are an interesting data point that are (unfortunately) not available. I really like the Michigan top-to-bottom tool, and with three years of data available, GP South looks seriously impressive. Are there issues there like bullying, gang fights, teen pregnancy, drug dealing in the school yard?

[Kid wave]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

It's kinda of a old-money, new-money thing. Grosse Pointe has that old-money type of wealth passed down through the generations.

Bloomfield Hills and area is more new money where the wealth was more recently generated; ie doctors, businesspersons, and real estate developers.

Though in fairness, parts of Grosse Pointe weren't really fully developed until the 70s and 80s.

I'd say over 90% of the housing stock in the Points was developed well before the 70's or 80's, I'd say 50% of the housing is older than most of Detroit, considering Detroit has miles of housing built after world war 2 & Grosse Point was established as a wealthy enclave by 1920's and also small vacation cottages that still exist today in the Farms the last area to be developed was Grosse Point Woods where I'd say the average age of the homes would be mid fifties.

[313 TUxedo]

For the most part, the Pointes are newer construction than the city of Detroit. The only parts of the Pointes that were fully developed before WWII were (the city of) Grosse Pointe itself, the first few blocks of Grosse Pointe Park east of Alter, and along the lakeshore (Windmill Pointe). Much of GP Park was actually developed later (50s) than GP City. Much of GP Farms was developed in the late fifties and sixties, with much of GP woods being developed in the sixties.

Of note is that people confuse Vernier Rd. with 8 Mile Rd, which it is not. Thus many think the NW-bound side of Vernier and all the streets north and east of Vernier are in St. Clair Shores. In fact, GP Woods and Shores continue north of Vernier and this part of GPW was developed in the sixties and seventies.

I believe anything in the GPs after 1980 was small-scale infill. Nothing to do with decline, rather the lack of any significant unimproved parcels to develop.