Orr has room and board perks? (Detroit: bankrupt, compensation, law)

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

Well what do you see as an alternative? Ultimately a lot will be up to the bankruptcy judge, not Orr.

I don't perceive him, or anyone else I know, as anti-pension or anti-union at all, in this case. Most I know feel bad for he people about to get screwed.

But the fact is here is no money to pay the pensions.

there isnt enough money to pay the bondholders *and* the pensions.

theres plenty to pay one or the other.

the official estimate of underfunded pension debt is 3.5 billion, but that isnt a "measured" number - accounting like that isn't like looking at a ruler, there's a ton of wiggle room, assumptions, fud and fraud in any set of "books" that you look at. In my previous profession, I used to look at business's "books", and had some spirited conversations with my wife, who is a CPA about generally accepted accounting practices. The more you know about accounting, the less you believe in the stock market. I've also seen that underfunded pension amount pegged at 640 million. so the truth of the matter is probably between 640 million and 3.5 billion, and that's an awful lot of wiggle room. just looking at published stories on the matter, the projected growth rate of the pension funds gives me pause - they were expecting 8% growth on all of the funds they have collected.

are you counting on 8% continuous growth on the funds in your retirement plan?

would you, as a private investor, have bought *any* investment product associated with Detroit in the past 20 years?

would you, as a private investor,have sunk any of your own money into derivative swaps associated with Detroit in the past 20 years?

the anonomous "bondholders" Mr Orr is going to protect in this deal aren't little old ladies who will be forced to prioritize their medications because the checks stop coming. they're big boys who played a dangerous game & when their deal started to implode, they sent in their bought & paid for government actors to over ride the constitution of the state, so the party would continue on.

the bottom line is that Mr Orr was brought in by an anti-union Gov as a hit-man to gut those pensions.

[jonnynonos]

No offense; you talk a decent game but you are either wildly misinformed or willfully obtuse.

The pensions in many instances here ARE the bondholders; further your 3.5 billion figure is a joke. Actual pension liability is outweighed by healthcare costs, pegged at 5.7 billion, which for some bizarre reason you don't seem interested in mentioning.

There isn't "plenty" of money for anything.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

No offense; you talk a decent game but you are either wildly misinformed or willfully obtuse.

The pensions in many instances here ARE the bondholders; further your 3.5 billion figure is a joke. Actual pension liability is outweighed by healthcare costs, pegged at 5.7 billion, which for some bizarre reason you don't seem interested in mentioning.

There isn't "plenty" of money for anything.

they've already decided about healthcare, so that is a moot issue - no one wants to pay 5.7 billion for it, so they won't. some will be picked up by obamacare, some will be picked up by those wealthy pensioners, and the rest will be divided up amongst all of us every time we get an $18 asprin at the hospital. we may save a few extra bucks if a few of those retirees die early of preventable illnesses though.. I'll give you that one.

[jonnynonos]

Show me a reference regarding a decision that's been made about health care.

[michigan83]

Orr has one of the least desirable jobs in the history of jobs. There is no controversy here. Give the man some perks.

[zthatzmanz28]

Originally Posted by michigan83

Orr has one of the least desirable jobs in the history of jobs. There is no controversy here. Give the man some perks.

Again, $275K should be enough perk...

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28

Again, $275K should be enough perk...

So he shouldn't spend it?

I would think it's more greedy to hoard all that money and not spend it within the city. Pfft, this totally could have been done by someone who was living 1200 miles away in a much nicer hotel who might not even know what the city looks like.

[jonnynonos]

Everyone's yelling at Orr like this is all his doing. Lot easier to blame a figurehead, I guess, than admit to decades of undeliverable promises (lies), corruption, incompetent management and burying ones head in the sand.

Frankly Orr is a minor player in this fiasco. Detroit itself, it's "leaders", the metro area and the state as a whole are the ones to blame.

[zthatzmanz28]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

So he shouldn't spend it?

I would think it's more greedy to hoard all that money and not spend it within the city. Pfft, this totally could have been done by someone who was living 1200 miles away in a much nicer hotel who might not even know what the city looks like.

Point being--HE SHOULD SPEND IT. Most people who have a job have to pay their room and board.


And the difference of a person being 1200 miles away and Orr? Orr has ZERO investment in the city or the people living there.

His ONLY allegiance is to CITIZENS UNITED and KOCH BROTHERS.

[jonnynonos]

You must be joking.