Atlanta rounds up....Detroit rounds down. (Grand Rapids, Flint: home, employment, living)

[Indentured Servant]

I was watching the news about how Atlanta was paralyzed by the snow and a local Atlanta reporter was giving an interview and he started off by saying that Atlanta was a city of 6 million people. . Well, first off, Atlanta is a CITY of about 500,000 people and metro Atlanta is an area of 5.4 million people. Only by the most embellished metric is Atlanta an area of 6 million people...and certainly not a CITY of 6 million. However, Atlanta always defines itself in the greatest possible way.....in the way the makes the area look the most impressive and everyone in government, the media, the business community and residents do the same thing. In Atlanta.....5.2 is rounded up to 6.

In Detroit, we round down everything. In Detroit we present ourselves in the worst and least impressive way. When was the last time that you ever heard any media or leader define Detroit as an area of 6 million people? The truth is....the same way that Atlanta can get to 6 million.....Detroit can too....but instead of saying its an area of 6 million, Detroit says that its an area of 4 million.....and the region makes sure you know that IS NOT THE CITY. This region wants not to embellish and focus on something positive, but rather, the negatives. The population you hear talked about is the CITY and its massive loss of people. Hence, Detroit proper gets talked about all the time and people assume they are talking about the Detroit area when they talk about the decline in Detroit population and the whole area is then seen nationally as a dying area. In Detroit, 5.2 gets rounded down to 4......because the Detroit region is into self deprecation, while places like Atlanta are into self aggrandizement.

If you were looking to date someone....would you choose the self deprecating, insecure, sees nothing good in themselves type of person or would you choose a self confident, self selling type person? Is it any wonder why Atlanta is the prom king or queen and Detroit can't get a date?

[Bimmerfanboy]

Good post, there's truth to what you are saying.

On a side note, I've always wondered how they count the size of a metro region. Estimates vary quite a bit. I've seen 4.5 million - 5.5 million tossed around for metro Detroit. This makes it one of the more populous metros in America, despite the hundreds of thousands of people who have departed over the past 15 years. I wonder if places like Ann Arbor and Windsor are taken into account.

[DTWflyer]

Part of the reason is that Atlanta is a national media powerhouse with the home of major media outlets like CNN and The Weather Channel.

They get more coverage just by that alone.....

[zthatzmanz28]

Years ago my dad would say we we from Detroit whenever we were traveling during the summer. Eventually he stopped identifying with Detroit and just went with Taylor.
Could be the same mindset in Atlanta? More people want to be associated with Atlanta.

I have friends in the Atlanta area and they say "I am from Atlanta" even when they actually live 20 miles outside of Atlanta in places like Marietta, Norcross and Sandy Springs.

People from the Detroit area just quit identifying with the city.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by Seatown1

Good post, there's truth to what you are saying.

On a side note, I've always wondered how they count the size of a metro region. Estimates vary quite a bit. I've seen 4.5 million - 5.5 million tossed around for metro Detroit. This makes it one of the more populous metros in America, despite the hundreds of thousands of people who have departed over the past 15 years. I wonder if places like Ann Arbor and Windsor are taken into account.

The primary component in determining metro population are commuting percentages. If 24%, I believe, of the people in washtenaw county and Genesee county commuted to the primary county of Wayne, then those counties would be included in the metro population count. Hence, I believe the threshold is 24% commuter interchange with primary or principle core counties.

What kills Detroit is that it has a weak employment core in Detroit. People generally commute to jobs but with relatively few jobs in Detroit or Wayne county, there is no need for people to commute to work to Wayne/Detroit from other counties, especially if those other counties have business centers and jobs. If Detroit had a downtown office market and employment base like Atlanta, then more people would commute to work to Detroit from other counties and the metro area population would increase (for rankings but not an actual increase of people).

That having been said, if you take the square mile foot print that gets you 6 million people in Atlanta, and superimpose it over the Detroit region, you would get over 6 million people. Hence, its not about population in an area, its about how they commute that determines population.

[Retroit]

Why are we presuming that a bigger population is better than a small one?

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

If you were looking to date someone....

...would you say you were a 7 when you are really a 6 or would you say you are a 5 and surprise her?

(sorry, couldn't resist the analogy)

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by Retroit

Why are we presuming that a bigger population is better than a small one?



...would you say you were a 7 when you are really a 6 or would you say you are a 5 and surprise her?

(sorry, couldn't resist the analogy)

Because size DOES matter.

If you say you are a five......you will not get a chance to surprise her....unless she sees herself as a 4 or below.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

I was watching the news about how Atlanta was paralyzed by the snow and a local Atlanta reporter was giving an interview and he started off by saying that Atlanta was a city of 6 million people. . Well, first off, Atlanta is a CITY of about 500,000 people and metro Atlanta is an area of 5.4 million people. Only by the most embellished metric is Atlanta an area of 6 million people...and certainly not a CITY of 6 million. However, Atlanta always defines itself in the greatest possible way.....in the way the makes the area look the most impressive and everyone in government, the media, the business community and residents do the same thing. In Atlanta.....5.2 is rounded up to 6.

In Detroit, we round down everything. In Detroit we present ourselves in the worst and least impressive way. When was the last time that you ever heard any media or leader define Detroit as an area of 6 million people? The truth is....the same way that Atlanta can get to 6 million.....Detroit can too....but instead of saying its an area of 6 million, Detroit says that its an area of 4 million.....and the region makes sure you know that IS NOT THE CITY. This region wants not to embellish and focus on something positive, but rather, the negatives. The population you hear talked about is the CITY and its massive loss of people. Hence, Detroit proper gets talked about all the time and people assume they are talking about the Detroit area when they talk about the decline in Detroit population and the whole area is then seen nationally as a dying area. In Detroit, 5.2 gets rounded down to 4......because the Detroit region is into self deprecation, while places like Atlanta are into self aggrandizement.

If you were looking to date someone....would you choose the self deprecating, insecure, sees nothing good in themselves type of person or would you choose a self confident, self selling type person? Is it any wonder why Atlanta is the prom king or queen and Detroit can't get a date?

Southern cities have been doing this for a while. Charlotte does the same thing (they see themselves in a race to be the next Atlanta).

They also have much looser annexation laws, so the size of Southern "cities" seems larger too. Oklahoma City claims (on their website) to be the largest city in the country, but only because geographically they have the most land of any city. But if you've been there, it's like a flat Toledo.

I think technically though if you apply the same commuting patterns standard that every MSA receives by the Census Bureau, Detroit MSA is still around 4.3. No?

If you go to the Detroit Combined Statistical Area, it jumps to 5.3 Million, but that includes Flint and Ann Arbor. Are those really part of Detroit? I don't think so. There's quite a bit of rural area between those metro areas. Just like between Holland and Grand Rapids. It's not uninterrupted suburbanized area (yet).

Any way you slice it, the Detroit metro area is slowly losing population (like Cleveland, Milwaukee, Youngstown, Syracuse, Buffalo, etc)

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by magellan

Southern cities have been doing this for a while. Charlotte does the same thing (they see themselves in a race to be the next Atlanta).

They also have much looser annexation laws, so the size of Southern "cities" seems larger too. Oklahoma City claims (on their website) to be the largest city in the country, but only because geographically they have the most land of any city. But if you've been there, it's like a flat Toledo.

I think technically though if you apply the same commuting patterns standard that every MSA receives by the Census Bureau, Detroit MSA is still around 4.3. No?

If you go to the Detroit Combined Statistical Area, it jumps to 5.3 Million, but that includes Flint and Ann Arbor. Are those really part of Detroit? I don't think so. There's quite a bit of rural area between those metro areas. Just like between Holland and Grand Rapids. It's not uninterrupted suburbanized area (yet).

Any way you slice it, the Detroit metro area is slowly losing population (like Cleveland, Milwaukee, Youngstown, Syracuse, Buffalo, etc)

Metropolitan Atlanta is about 9,000 square miles and 5.5 million people, wile Metropolitan Detroit is about 3,900 square miles with 4.3 million people. If you add Ann Arbor, Flint, Windsor and Lucas County, Ohio, that would still be less than the 9,000 square mile foot print that represents Atlanta.

If one lives 60 miles outside Atlanta.....one has no more or no less access to Atlanta than a person living 60 miles outside of Detroit has access to Detroit. The only difference between the two, is that the person living outside of Atlanta is more like to commute to work to Atlanta than the person outside of Detroit is to commute to Detroit. Hence, the person outside of Atlanta gets counted as part of Atlanta metro and the person outside of Detroit does not get counted as part of Detroit metro.

The office of management and budget comes up with the metrics to define metro counts but the counts are not designed to be used they way that are used by the average person. They are really designed for political purposes.....traffic patterns and behavior and what not.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

Metropolitan Atlanta is about 9,000 square miles and 5.5 million people, wile Metropolitan Detroit is about 3,900 square miles with 4.3 million people. If you add Ann Arbor, Flint, Windsor and Lucas County, Ohio, that would still be less than the 9,000 square mile foot print that represents Atlanta.

If one lives 60 miles outside Atlanta.....one has no more or no less access to Atlanta than a person living 60 miles outside of Detroit has access to Detroit. The only difference between the two, is that the person living outside of Atlanta is more like to commute to work to Atlanta than the person outside of Detroit is to commute to Detroit. Hence, the person outside of Atlanta gets counted as part of Atlanta metro and the person outside of Detroit does not get counted as part of Detroit metro.

The office of management and budget comes up with the metrics to define metro counts but the counts are not designed to be used they way that are used by the average person. They are really designed for political purposes.....traffic patterns and behavior and what not.

I hear what you're saying about square miles, but Atlanta is an island with no other mid-sized cities around. Basically if you live 60 miles from Atlanta, you live in the Atlanta area. If you live 60 miles from Detroit, you could definitely say you live in Lansing. Lansing (or Flint or Ann Arbor) are in no way shape or form Detroit, or even Detroit metro area. Sorry.

Instead of quibbling about metro area definitions, Detroit metro should concentrate on creating jobs. Certainly 4.2 Million people is no drop in the bucket, and big enough to get international attention. Multiple pro sports teams, a large airport, a large waterfront downtown, etc.. A redefining of population count isn't going to change people's perceptions. Most Americans don't even know what the capital of their own State is, not less whether 4.2 Million looks different than 5.4 Million. Continued success will change perceptions a lot more.