Neighbourhood dynamics in Detroit

[one is lonely]

The fact that Detroit's far northwest corner posted a population gain also hints towards another interesting phenomenon. Namely, how quick Southfield transitioned from farmland to a suburban paradise, and then to unfashionable. It's amazing.

Really, i's so hard for any suburban area in Michigan to have staying power. You basically have to be Grosse Pointe or on Woodward. People talk about how South Warren is in sharp decline, and lo and behold a good chunk of that was built in the '20s (Van Dyke area south of Center Line) or '40s (most homes south of 9 or 9 1/2 Mile, depending on the area). Now the '60s suburbs are starting to show the first cracks. I mean, my God - where does it end?

[Retroit]

Originally Posted by one is lonely

I mean, my God - where does it end?

Well, since you were considerate enough to call me by my first name...

I'm not sure it will end until a "sprawl premium" is imposed on further outgrowth. It is just too easy for people to move out to 20-some Mile Road and leave their former neighborhood and all its infrastructure to rot away. Unless we have a regional authority that says "No, you can't build new homes at 20-some Mile road until nearly all the vacant lots in the existing metro area have been built up and the occupancy rates are nearly 100%." If you want to build, you will have to pay a sprawl premium which will be used to maintain the area you abandoned. But fat chance of that happening soon.

So what likely will happen is that outward flow will continue until metropolitan Detroit is a ring (or crescent) with a hollow center.

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by sheena12

Seems as though there are a lot of 1920s buildings. I've heard a lot about beautiful, large brick 1920s homes that can be bought for very little. Are any of these in safe neighborhoods?

I have a much younger brother who is thinking of moving back north with his wife and infant. He'd like an area that will be safe and a good investment.

We've gotten e-mails about investing in Detroit - but most of it seems directed towards people who want to rent out to section 8 and not improve the city.

We are against that.

Are there any areas where a young family would fit in? It could be up and coming. They are kind of arty and, perhaps hipster types.

He'd be looking in the 25-45 K price range.

Thank you!

Old Redford is kinda of an artsy neighborhood on the far west of Detroit. It has a "artists village". The housing stock ranges from bland to spectacular. This house is a brick Victorian that is probably in pretty bad shape, but it is on a HUGE lot for the city (although it abuts a car repair shop)

17505 COOLEY Street, Detroit MI 48219 - MLS# 214023006



Martin Park - neighborhood to the east of the University of Detroit. Spectacular 1920's house. I don't know who artsy it is though

16862 PARKSIDE Street, Detroit MI 48221 - MLS# 213207151


Bagley - the neighbhorhood is named after an elementary school that sits right in the middle of it. Not very artsy but it is another neighborhood close to the University of Detroit.

This magnificent house in Bagley was built in 1931, but look at the masonry and the interior plaster details. Amazing.

18074 WISCONSIN Street E, Detroit MI 48221 - MLS# 214020023

[detwahDJ]

Originally Posted by sheena12

Seems as though there are a lot of 1920s buildings. I've heard a lot about beautiful, large brick 1920s homes that can be bought for very little. Are any of these in safe neighborhoods?

I have a much younger brother who is thinking of moving back north with his wife and infant. He'd like an area that will be safe and a good investment.

We've gotten e-mails about investing in Detroit - but most of it seems directed towards people who want to rent out to section 8 and not improve the city.

We are against that.

Are there any areas where a young family would fit in? It could be up and coming. They are kind of arty and, perhaps hipster types.

He'd be looking in the 25-45 K price range.

Thank you!

Check out Corktown. Arty, old, hipsterish, historic, near downtown, on the cutting edge of revitalization, may be affordable around the edges and values should increase.
Some Corktown news to give you a sense of what it is about.
Corktown
Curbed Detroit: Corktown Archives
https://www.facebook.com/CorktownStudios
Detroit Neighborhoods Corktown | D:hive
Astro Coffee | Corktown, Detroit

OK there's lots more if you google corktown detroit, but I would hook up with some locals or neighborhood resources to get opinions on real estate.
Some more about Detroit overall.
mufi-html

[nei]

Originally Posted by 313 TUxedo

That 11% population loss on the far west side of Cleveland actually speaks well for that area. Families have fewer children today, and that area may in fact have more households than it did in 1950. Blame the population loss on Ethinyl Estradiol.

I still wonder how Cleveland suffered a larger percentage population loss than Detroit did, even though Cleveland still has a significant middle-class population and a significant white population.

Cleveland has a smaller average household size than Detroit, so more of its population decline is from smaller household sizes rather than just abandonment [more childless adults]. Likely Detroit has a larger % decline in households. Detroit has a rather high child % for a central city.

[memph]

Originally Posted by Retroit

Well, since you were considerate enough to call me by my first name...

I'm not sure it will end until a "sprawl premium" is imposed on further outgrowth. It is just too easy for people to move out to 20-some Mile Road and leave their former neighborhood and all its infrastructure to rot away. Unless we have a regional authority that says "No, you can't build new homes at 20-some Mile road until nearly all the vacant lots in the existing metro area have been built up and the occupancy rates are nearly 100%." If you want to build, you will have to pay a sprawl premium which will be used to maintain the area you abandoned. But fat chance of that happening soon.

So what likely will happen is that outward flow will continue until metropolitan Detroit is a ring (or crescent) with a hollow center.

So I would say there's a few "levels" an area can be at in terms of housing costs

1) A place is so cheap and undesirable that even good quality homes become abandoned (while still in good condition) because no-one is willing to live there, and then squatters, vandals, scrappers ruin them eliminating any chance of becoming re-occupied

2) You're still able to get good quality homes occupied, but the only tenants willing to live there are the really bad ones no-one else wants and they cause the housing to deteriorate particularly fast and it becomes uninhabitable and then victim of scrappers/vandalism

3) Housing costs/rents aren't high enough to justify significant maintenance, and things slowly become more and more run-down until you you can only get the bad tenants and the homes soon become uninhabitable

4) The homes become outdated and the home values/rents aren't high enough to justify updating them and at some point they become the most outdated homes in the region and only the really bad tenants are willing to live there

5) Homes are valuable enough to justify significant maintenance and renovations, but even so weren't built to last for centuries and eventually need to get rebuilt - but the area isn't desirable enough for rebuilding so they just get abandoned

6) The area is desirable enough to justify rebuilding once homes reach their expiry date

7) The area is desirable enough to justify demolishing homes to build something denser while they're still in reasonable condition

I think places like Indian Village aren't really getting new construction at this point (?) but were built to last longer than homes in more working class neighbourhoods. Maybe 6) can apply to a few parts of the core where there's new construction of vacant lots? Although if new construction requires subsidies that doesn't count.

Most of Detroit has low enough desirability that I think at least 5) applies, and in some cases, probably 3) and 4). Are there any neighbourhoods though where even 2) and maybe even 1) apply or is it not that bad?