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Old 06-24-2014, 05:35 PM
 
90 posts, read 155,039 times
Reputation: 150

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And that is the problem with talking about Detroit. Faux news has been using its failure as a foil to skewer a political philosophy. While, I tend to use Somalia as an example of a Libertarian utopia. (No rules, you can buy anything, and what guberment?) Detroit's problems are certainly the fault of a government that was corrupt and made some big mistakes. Detroit's problems are also the fault of "Right to (not) work" and race to the bottom philosophy of other states. Now, we've established that, lets get to fixing things.

The bankruptcy is great, because it will give the government a quick way to reduce its size. I also think that they should reduce the Detroit Metro Area, even if I might not gain from that. Schools, what the heck is going on with the schools? That should be problem number 1 to address. Because even if your strangling the school district for cash, you should be able to do better than a 3/10.
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Old 06-24-2014, 06:18 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,739 posts, read 6,897,981 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeable View Post
Lol. Detroit was in the running for the 2nd Boeing 787 plant. Wonder why they chose South Carolina. Or BMW chose South Carolina. Or Mercedes chose Alabama. or Hyundai/Kia chose Alabama and Georgia. Or Nissan chose Tennessee. Or Toyota chose Kentucky.

Could it be...right to work status?

I'm not trying to union bash; but the UAW has been a large impediment in bringing manufacturing to the state. Michigan has the infrastructure and the workforce, but is not competitive in the current economic climate. I'm glad that FoMoCo, GM, and Chrysler/Fiat (when will there be the investigation that let a floundering Fiat take over Chrysler for next to nothing? Chrysler currently generates the majority of the Fiat group's profits since Europe is a pile of dog poop) are on their feet, but restructuring and offloading union legacy costs plays a large role in their current profitability.

Double lol; The last republican mayor of Detroit left office in January of 1962. 52 years of Democratic rule and...?? The Coleman Young years served as a such a shining example of regional cooperation, and businesses flocked to the city in droves, yes?
As always you must rely upon the same old worn-out anti-democratic Fox platitudes.
Detroit had democratic mayors throughout it's prosperous years and the last republicon mayor, Miriani, went to prison for tax evasion - plus, all those repubs administered during a time when the auto industry had a captive market and there was plenty of work available for Detroiters with no global workforce for competition.
Do you even read any of the previous posts - like where is was pointed out that the auto industry never was in Detroit proper? Have you ignored the fact that the city government has always been the tail of the industry dog? You shouldn't even need the forum to know that.
The industry was always regional, yet the white right loves to connect the industry and its management decisions with the city's government and its black residents, who BTW are not responsible for those industry decisions in the new global market.

The mistakes of city government were lack of progressive vision and talent, not seeing the handwriting on the wall, being unable to adapt to the changing events, and conservatively sticking with the "old tried and true" dependence upon industry.

And unions? They were around throughout the prosperous years and have been the only barrier to third-world "right-to-work-for-less" status for the American worker - which btw is what RTW is really all about.
The republicon right is drooling over the dirt-cheap and regulation-free working environment of places like Bangladesh, and they want dearly to have the same here. This is why in Congress they oppose all efforts at reform.
Here's something else Fox hasn't told you - there is growing worker unrest in those countries by people tired of being exploited and earning wages which keep them in poverty - including a growing desire to unionize. This is coming to light thanks to the internet and the increasing attention of the international community, but of course such a story is ignored by the American corporate media - for obvious reasons.

Shine a light and the roaches scatter. This is why the corporate right has been attempting to gain control of the internet along with the mainstream media which they already own.

Last edited by detwahDJ; 06-24-2014 at 06:34 PM..
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Old 06-24-2014, 07:55 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
20,899 posts, read 19,384,242 times
Reputation: 25391
So let me get this straight: Half of Detroiters are justified in not paying their water bill because of Faux News, Mayor Mariani, and Bangladeshis who line up for jobs in sweatshops?

What other wonderful insights has MSNBC taught you?
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:30 PM
 
1,709 posts, read 2,152,902 times
Reputation: 1886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
If a person is taking something without paying for it, that is called "theft". You don't have to interview someone to know that.
If a hospital gives a dying man a life-saving procedure, and he can't afford to pay for it, is that theft?

And there's a difference between "I don't feel like paying my water bill, I know someone else will get it for me, even though I have plenty of opportunities to work and pay it myself" and "I can't pay my water bill because I have no money, there are no jobs left for me to take up, my neighborhood is a warzone, and the developed world has left me and my city for dead." I have a feeling you struggle with that distinction.
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:56 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,066,472 times
Reputation: 7812
Tell 'em to pay da bill!!

Seriously, there has to be a repayment plan in place. People cannot be denied water, right?

They must be able to pay something towards their balance.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Detroit Michigan
429 posts, read 967,006 times
Reputation: 537
Detroit water department draws criticism from UN Experts for water shutoffs - WXYZ.com
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Old 06-27-2014, 09:36 AM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
20,899 posts, read 19,384,242 times
Reputation: 25391
Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
If a hospital gives a dying man a life-saving procedure, and he can't afford to pay for it, is that theft?

And there's a difference between "I don't feel like paying my water bill, I know someone else will get it for me, even though I have plenty of opportunities to work and pay it myself" and "I can't pay my water bill because I have no money, there are no jobs left for me to take up, my neighborhood is a warzone, and the developed world has left me and my city for dead." I have a feeling you struggle with that distinction.
I doubt if half the people in Detroit meet that criteria. You honestly believe that there aren't any people in the city who can afford it but don't want to pay for it?
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:04 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,739 posts, read 6,897,981 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
So let me get this straight: Half of Detroiters are justified in not paying their water bill because of Faux News, Mayor Mariani, and Bangladeshis who line up for jobs in sweatshops?

What other wonderful insights has MSNBC taught you?
Missed the point eh? OK, I'll simplify it for you.
While using the corporate media and Faux News as cover, obstructionist republicans have for six years done everything possible to tank the economy for their own political gain, sabotaged all jobs legislation via filibuster, gleefully funneled billions of taxpayer welfare to the rich while complaining about the poor, encouraged businesses to move offshore with hefty tax breaks, supported tax evasion for the wealthy, promoted right-to-work laws in order to disempower workers and reduce wages to third-world market rates, and more. Since they have done absolutely nothing else over six years, it is they and their supporters who should pay those bills - and a lot more. More understandable now?

Yep corporate-owned MSNBC - even with the corporate reins on, still the favorite whipping boy and worst nightmare of the fascist Right.
And while we're at it, please describe the republican jobs plan - should be easy enough for you. MSNBC and others have said there is none - other than the proven failure of more trickle-down.

Last edited by detwahDJ; 06-27-2014 at 08:34 PM..
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:19 PM
 
1,709 posts, read 2,152,902 times
Reputation: 1886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
I doubt if half the people in Detroit meet that criteria. You honestly believe that there aren't any people in the city who can afford it but don't want to pay for it?
I don't honestly believe that moochers don't exist. Freeloaders have always existed. But they're not even close to the majority. They're not even a plurality. At most, they might be a little under 10% of the people who haven't paid the bill.

Why would you think 350,000 people are all mooching the water supply and consciously taking full advantage of those who pay? You don't honestly believe that people are that bad, do you? (Not a jab, it's an actual question)
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Michigan
4,647 posts, read 8,549,982 times
Reputation: 3775
One thing to keep in mind is that many Detroiters live in older housing that may not have up-to-date plumbing which is often where overcharges occur due to leaky pipe and such. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that many Detroiters simply can't afford to upgrade their plumbing.
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