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I came here on a job transfer a year ago, but I am already looking to leave because I can’t stand the area.
I am a 30 year old white collar professional. I have lived in five different cities in four states, and am a native of Denver originally. Detroit is by far the worst city I have ever seen in my entire life.
I visited the area before on a previous occasion and wasn’t too turned off by it. When I was offered my promotion I thought I’d give the area a chance, given how the media likes to dump on Detroit. But now, I see that the contempt is well deserved. I literally don’t even know where to start.
For one, the area is so spread out and sprawled.* You will spend half your paycheck on gas alone; Detroit could give easily Los Angeles or Houston runs for their money in that department. And some suburbs are almost as bad as the actual city now. They just keep moving farther and farther out to 57 Mile Road…85 Mile Road…etc.
Detroit has absolutely no mass transit and zero urban interesting neighborhoods to speak of, aside from one or two inner ring suburbs just outside the city’s northern boundary and maybe Ann Arbor. While some of the suburbs have nice downtowns, almost everything else remotely urban was bombed out to hell decades ago. The downtown and midtown areas are decent. Still, two square miles of yuppies in the middle of the city won’t cut it, we’re talking about real urban neighborhoods with sidewalk cafes and places you wouldn’t be afraid to take your family in the evening. Detroit can’t even compete with freaking Ann Arbor or Royal Oak, let alone the other big cities in the Midwest.
As for the people, Detroit is also where dreams seem to go to die. For a major metropolitan area people are generally sullen, miserable, and bitter. You can sense this energy on a day-to-day basis. They hate Detroit too, but civic pride won’t allow them to leave the area completely or admit that the town sucks, so they just go on day to sulking. No wonder there’s no creative, innovative culture here. Everyone either left already and the ones remaining are too busy fantasizing about what life was like on Six Mile Road in 1963.
The area is segregated and horribly racist on all sides. That has probably been the single biggest culture shock for me personally. I heard things uttered here about African-Americans, Arab-Americans, etc that I never heard in other metropolitan areas, things which can’t be repeated on this site—that’s how offensive they are. I was just in shock, I didn’t even know how to respond. And they’re obsessed with the concept of race here. When I go out to bars every other topic from strangers is “I’m not racist, but…” this and “I have black friends, but black people…” that. If not for the unions, Michigan would vote red in every single election; it’s just as socially conservative as Mississippi.
People, especially in Oakland county, want to say they’re from Detroit outside of Michigan as if that makes them look “tough” or “hard” to the rest of the nation, but then they look down on the actual city of Detroit in the three-county area as a status symbol. You live in Hazel Park? It’s not Detroit. Inkster? Better than Detroit. Harper Woods? At least it’s not Detroit. We all know why this phenomenon takes place (read: racism). But it’s very two-faced and, admittedly, humorous. Pick a side and stick with it.
Politeness and decency are like totally foreign concepts in the metro area. I was at a drive thru once and the woman at the window was genuinely surprised when I told her “thank you” after receiving my meal. It’s been that long since someone told you thank you? That speaks volumes.
Many people in the Bloomfield/Troy/Birmingham areas are extremely narcissistic as well. They blast down Maple Road like they’re in the Indianapolis 500, screw a pedestrian. Gaudy, gigantic houses on tiny lots, with ridiculous oversized vehicles parked out front. I’ve never seen such a status-conscious suburb, it’s disgusting and repugnant. And that includes places known for their arrogance like San Francisco and Los Angeles. The irony is that San Francisco and Los Angeles don’t have anywhere near the level of decay that Detroit has. Maybe that’s the reason for the elitism here?
Speaking of decay, the locals here are fascinated with the blight. When you look at the Free Press website, it seems like half of the stories are photo galleries of the Michigan Central Station, etc. People in Detroit literally have a fetish for urban decay. They’re proud of it: they obsess over their ruined, destroyed city with entire websites dedicated to it and even clothing lines. You should be embarrassed of that, not honored. Even in the office people are always talking about it like a badge of honor. I told someone I was going back home to visit family in Colorado one time and a co-worker said as smug as could be: “What’s it like there? It’s not as ghetto as it is here, is it?”
People here seem to be very oblivious to the world around them, with slow reaction times. They generally have poor spatial coordination/orientation on the roads and you even see this in public: people often bump into you on sidewalks when they have plenty of space to walk. Too busy texting to pay attention, I guess.
The infrastructure is generally bad too. There’s no streetlights at night along many major thoroughfares and the roads are in terrible shape--this includes the suburbs. It seems like there was a complete lack of forethought or planning when the area was developed, but I guess the need to get away from black people was more important at the time.
Detroit has the worst drivers I’ve ever seen in my entire life. I’ve never witnessed such a high proportion of accidents here, especially in the winter. How the hell do you live in Michigan and not know how to handle a two inch snowfall? When it’s dry out people do 10 mph under the speed limit on two lane roads and 20 mph over the limit on the freeways. And a stop sign? It might as well be written in Sanskrit. My personal favorite is how people here stop a mile behind the car in front of them at red lights. Why do you need to stop that far back? Is there a ghost car in front of you? And they drift in and out of traffic lanes like they don’t even exist, you’d think Stevie Wonder was behind the wheel.
Quality of life is not very good. Basic conveniences like public vending machines are frequently broken and ATMs from major banks are often out of cash. I’ve observed numerous service disruptions with utilities in my apartment without any type of warning or notice. I also seem to have issues with mail forwarding and getting other people’s mail. And forget going to a drive thru: you won’t get your food on time, if you even get the correct order at all.
The weather is torture. I knew I was in for a colder winter from what I’m used to out west, but Michigan winters are just unreal. Six months of overcast, sub-freezing temperatures and 100 inches on snow--it’s outrageous. I thought the averages were much milder than that? The summers are pleasant, but they don’t make up for what you have to endure in the winter.
The only pros (not a long list) are that Michigan is gorgeous scenery-wise outside of Detroit and there are some very charming small towns in the middle of the state. Single guys: the women here seem to put out a little bit easier (could be a con depending on your perspective). Detroit has some nice museums like the DIA and Downtown is decent, although it’s dead when there’s nothing going on. There’s good food in some areas and I like the Motown music heritage.
My biggest concern with Detroit is the fact that when you point out some of these issues, people become dismissive. Not even defensive, just dismissive. Maybe the decay made them sullen and indifferent and they feel they don’t have any incentive to improve the area. Honesty and logic clearly take a backseat to civic pride here.
My advice to young people: you can do better than Detroit. I’m not sure what the future looks like long-term with failed cities like Flint, Detroit, Gary, etc.—the solution ultimately lies in the underlying economics of jobs, but I’m not sure Detroit can attract jobs given its current condition. But don’t be fooled by the cheerleading you see online; there’s absolutely no future here. It’s all about the past to these people: what Detroit WAS, what Detroit used to be. But the Detroit of 1950 is long gone...and it's never coming back.
Feel better? I imagine that felt good to get off your chest.
I, too, once lived in Denver. How's that brown cloud thing going? They got Rocky Mountain arsenal cleaned up yet? I'm sure the gang violence has long stopped. . . . er, no, wait. Probably not.
Wow, that's a mouthful for sure. I actually took the time to read through your post and I've posted my responses below. Overall, I consider it fairly even-keel assessment of the Metro area. I don't agree with everything, but a lot of what you mentioned I've noticed as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Kilpatrick
For one, the area is so spread out and sprawled.* You will spend half your paycheck on gas alone; Detroit could give easily Los Angeles or Houston runs for their money in that department. And some suburbs are almost as bad as the actual city now. They just keep moving farther and farther out to 57 Mile Road…85 Mile Road…etc.
The Metro is spread out. A lot of that had to do with the migration out of the city and into the 'burbs. The locals consider it a badge of honor of sorts the further away from Detroit you live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Kilpatrick
Detroit has absolutely no mass transit and zero urban interesting neighborhoods to speak of, aside from one or two inner ring suburbs just outside the city’s northern boundary and maybe Ann Arbor. While some of the suburbs have nice downtowns, almost everything else remotely urban was bombed out to hell decades ago. The downtown and midtown areas are decent. Still, two square miles of yuppies in the middle of the city won’t cut it, we’re talking about real urban neighborhoods with sidewalk cafes and places you wouldn’t be afraid to take your family in the evening. Detroit can’t even compete with freaking Ann Arbor or Royal Oak, let alone the other big cities in the Midwest.
Agreed, mass transit in the Metro is terrible. I hope the M1 rail line is the start of something better. However, the people of Metro Detroit are very keen towards their automobiles. It's more of a mentality thing than it is a practicality thing. As for the cool neighborhoods and downtowns, they are very spread out. The city is not very walkable in that sense, however, I did notice the implementation of more bike lanes and paths. That excited me on my last visit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Kilpatrick
As for the people, Detroit is also where dreams seem to go to die. For a major metropolitan area people are generally sullen, miserable, and bitter. You can sense this energy on a day-to-day basis. They hate Detroit too, but civic pride won’t allow them to leave the area completely or admit that the town sucks, so they just go on day to sulking. No wonder there’s no creative, innovative culture here. Everyone either left already and the ones remaining are too busy fantasizing about what life was like on Six Mile Road in 1963.
There is a lot of bitterness from the locals about their Metro and its laundry list of problems. Can you blame them though? The city has been in the dumps for the better half of fifty years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Kilpatrick
The area is segregated and horribly racist on all sides. That has probably been the single biggest culture shock for me personally. I heard things uttered here about African-Americans, Arab-Americans, etc that I never heard in other metropolitan areas, things which can’t be repeated on this site—that’s how offensive they are. I was just in shock, I didn’t even know how to respond. And they’re obsessed with the concept of race here. When I go out to bars every other topic from strangers is “I’m not racist, but…” this and “I have black friends, but black people…” that. If not for the unions, Michigan would vote red in every single election; it’s just as socially conservative as Mississippi.
Metro Detroit is one of the most segregated metros I've ever observed. The dichotomy between the 'burbs and the city is like nothing I've ever seen comparable to other regions I've spent time in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Kilpatrick
People, especially in Oakland county, want to say they’re from Detroit outside of Michigan as if that makes them look “tough” or “hard” to the rest of the nation, but then they look down on the actual city of Detroit in the three-county area as a status symbol. You live in Hazel Park? It’s not Detroit. Inkster? Better than Detroit. Harper Woods? At least it’s not Detroit. We all know why this phenomenon takes place (read: racism). But it’s very two-faced and, admittedly, humorous. Pick a side and stick with it.
I live in Denver. When people ask me where I'm from, I usually tell them Detroit or Metro Detroit. It has nothing to do with how "hard" I want to appear. It's just easier than to explain where Madison Heights is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Kilpatrick
Politeness and decency are like totally foreign concepts in the metro area. I was at a drive thru once and the woman at the window was genuinely surprised when I told her “thank you” after receiving my meal. It’s been that long since someone told you thank you? That speaks volumes.
I don't necessarily agree with this. I never felt that the locals were particularly impolite or rude. They may be a little more insulated than you're used to, but most of the people I met there were at least amicable. The social scene is tough in Metro Detroit because most of the people grew up there and already have their friends. Without a large transient population, as in places like NYC, Chicago, or Denver, people really have no incentive to get out and meet new people. I had a terrible time trying to meet young people my age while I was living there recently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Kilpatrick
Many people in the Bloomfield/Troy/Birmingham areas are extremely narcissistic as well. They blast down Maple Road like they’re in the Indianapolis 500, screw a pedestrian. Gaudy, gigantic houses on tiny lots, with ridiculous oversized vehicles parked out front. I’ve never seen such a status-conscious suburb, it’s disgusting and repugnant. And that includes places known for their arrogance like San Francisco and Los Angeles. The irony is that San Francisco and Los Angeles don’t have anywhere near the level of decay that Detroit has. Maybe that’s the reason for the elitism here?
I don't know about their driving habits, but as I mentioned before, the locals do take pride in how far away from the city they live. It's as if the further out you live, the more you "made it". I can definitely see there being some elitism in places like Bloomfield, Birmingham, and Troy. But this is probably no better or worse than in other large metros. I can imagine how they are out in the upscale 'burbs of LA. I bet the pretentiousness is off the scales in those areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Kilpatrick
Speaking of decay, the locals here are fascinated with the blight. When you look at the Free Press website, it seems like half of the stories are photo galleries of the Michigan Central Station, etc. People in Detroit literally have a fetish for urban decay. They’re proud of it: they obsess over their ruined, destroyed city with entire websites dedicated to it and even clothing lines. You should be embarrassed of that, not honored. Even in the office people are always talking about it like a badge of honor. I told someone I was going back home to visit family in Colorado one time and a co-worker said as smug as could be: “What’s it like there? It’s not as ghetto as it is here, is it?”
I think it has less to do with a fascination with blight than it does about the fascination with what once was. Detroit has some very beautiful architecture, and I think a lot of people living there would like to preserve it. Keep in mind that some of those buildings were architectural marvels once upon a time. Any person would be fascinated by that. In fact, a lot of people I saw taking pictures of those buildings appeared to be foreigners or from out of state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Kilpatrick
People here seem to be very oblivious to the world around them, with slow reaction times. They generally have poor spatial coordination/orientation on the roads and you even see this in public: people often bump into you on sidewalks when they have plenty of space to walk. Too busy texting to pay attention, I guess.
I don't think this is any better or worse than any other region. Try coordinating around Denver without running into a pedestrian walking or running across the road without paying attention. Just forget about it if they are walking their animal. "But he's friendly!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Kilpatrick
The infrastructure is generally bad too. There’s no streetlights at night along many major thoroughfares and the roads are in terrible shape--this includes the suburbs. It seems like there was a complete lack of forethought or planning when the area was developed, but I guess the need to get away from black people was more important at the time.
Particularly in Detroit, yes. When I was in town last summer, they had just re-paved significant portions of I-75 and some parts of John R and the mile roads. Everyone knows about Michigan roads though, so that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Kilpatrick
Detroit has the worst drivers I’ve ever seen in my entire life. I’ve never witnessed such a high proportion of accidents here, especially in the winter. How the hell do you live in Michigan and not know how to handle a two inch snowfall? When it’s dry out people do 10 mph under the speed limit on two lane roads and 20 mph over the limit on the freeways. And a stop sign? It might as well be written in Sanskrit. My personal favorite is how people here stop a mile behind the car in front of them at red lights. Why do you need to stop that far back? Is there a ghost car in front of you? And they drift in and out of traffic lanes like they don’t even exist, you’d think Stevie Wonder was behind the wheel.
I don't necessarily agree. I never found MI drivers to be better or worse than in other regions. At least it's not here in Denver, where many folks are from CA and have never seen snow before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Kilpatrick
Quality of life is not very good. Basic conveniences like public vending machines are frequently broken and ATMs from major banks are often out of cash. I’ve observed numerous service disruptions with utilities in my apartment without any type of warning or notice. I also seem to have issues with mail forwarding and getting other people’s mail. And forget going to a drive thru: you won’t get your food on time, if you even get the correct order at all.
I'm guessing you're referring to Detroit proper? I did not really notice this in the suburbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Kilpatrick
The weather is torture. I knew I was in for a colder winter from what I’m used to out west, but Michigan winters are just unreal. Six months of overcast, sub-freezing temperatures and 100 inches on snow--it’s outrageous. I thought the averages were much milder than that? The summers are pleasant, but they don’t make up for what you have to endure in the winter.
That's lake effect for ya. IMO, it's worse in places like WI (coast), Chicago, and MN. Nobody moves to these regions for the weather.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Kilpatrick
My advice to young people: you can do better than Detroit. I’m not sure what the future looks like long-term with failed cities like Flint, Detroit, Gary, etc.—the solution ultimately lies in the underlying economics of jobs, but I’m not sure Detroit can attract jobs given its current condition. But don’t be fooled by the cheerleading you see online; there’s absolutely no future here. It’s all about the past to these people: what Detroit WAS, what Detroit used to be. But the Detroit of 1950 is long gone...and it's never coming back.
I think most people are well aware that the glory days are behind us, at least those days of rampant automobile production and great middle-class jobs working on the assembly line. I still have hope for the region though. If they can clean up their political mess, which it appears they were on that path, I think they can make significant strides still. You should have seen the city in the mid-2000s. It it so much improved from that time. So, it is making visible progress. It's just going to take a significant amount of time to undo the forty-odd years of damage. And obviously if any improvement is going to happen, new people need to move in to the area with new perspectives on how to change. So, as much as any critique should be appreciated, the intention should not be to scare people away from the area. Rather, it should be to assess the problems so that appropriate solutions can be implemented to resolve them. I mean, how else is the city going to improve unless new people are willing to move in? That's the catch-22 here.
People sullen and unfriendly? Everything on all levels dark and dreary?
When every single thing is awful, something else is going on here. For one thing, it is known that the OP doesn't speak for everyone in his crowd, so where is the conflict?
When I lived there I was aware of the problems and what sucked, but I was kept busy with friends and lots of things to do.
This is a very accurate assessment. I get the sense that the people who fail to identify these flaws are the same people who have never left the state for a considerable amount of time.
I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing somebody with the username "Coleman Kilpatrick" with one post is truly an outsider offering a new perspective on Detroit. Just my gut feeling.
At least the OP is critical of the suburbs as well though...
As far as your last paragraph is concerned, I'm sure the vast majority of young people in the region already know that 'they can do better than Detroit'. But Detroit needs young people and maybe that's why they feel compelled to stay. Sometimes it's nice to be where you're needed.
LMAO! I had a good time reading your "perspective". Don't let the door knob hit you on the way out.
"Sharks with Lasers" has a good point
Quote:
I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing somebody with the username "Coleman Kilpatrick" with one post is truly an outsider offering a new perspective on Detroit. Just my gut feeling.
LA, Chicago, and nearly every other major city in the country are still very segregated.
The cities themselves may be segregated, but nothing at all like the dichotomy between the 'burbs vs. Detroit. That is something very unique to that region. Many folks up in the 'burbs are ashamed of Detroit and want to live as far away from it as possible. When you start living on roads like Maple, Big Beaver, and Wattles, that's when you know you made it. That's not the case with almost any other major city in the US.
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