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I'm an old fart and thinking similarly but for slightly different reasons. I need to find a "pre-retirement" location that will provide a decent living and later meet retirement needs. Price matters immensely, hence ....
And I don't care a whit about weather (I'm a snow kinda guy who lives a second life in the snow zones of the Western US).
I've been intrigued by the SE MI urban concentration, Detroit and surrounds.
If they have any openings, I'm sure they would hire you. At the very least as an intern. These are some firms that typically do work in around Detroit/Southeastern Michigan. Most notably on the larger and higher profile historical buildings, for some.
By the way, Detroit isn't a compact city. It's not as big or crowded as LA, but it's equally car-dependent and spread out. Also, rent can be high in the popular areas of the city like downtown and Midtown, though I'm not sure how it is comparable to LA. Overall though, the whole metro area is vastly more affordable than SoCal but if you want a neighborhood that hasn't declined or isn't too expensive, then you'll likely end up in a suburb.
Suburbs like Royal Oak, Ferndale, and Birmingham are popular with young graduates, as well as the nearby town of Ann Arbor, but that's kind of a hefty commute. So certainly I don't think Detroit is your best option if you're looking for a car-free lifestyle, but Detroit is pretty good as a design capital and has plenty of creative types. And of course the architecture here is pretty awesome and hopefully more of it does get saved. Even if you don't end up living here, visiting ought to be a pretty good experience.
Those inner suburbs / SE Oakland County are pretty neat. I had the fortune to pay them a visit about 10 years ago and really liked what I saw. To find that sort of environment, with all the excellent Arts and Crafts homes in mature neighborhoods, with an interesting demographic, you'd be paying out the nose here in the Bay Area (certain parts of Berkeley and Oakland are the least expensive and are still going through the roof). I was messing around on Google street view (doing virtual bike rides) starting from points in Ferndale and Royal Oak, and was really pleased with how quickly I could get out into the "Lake District" and conversely, how relatively compact it was tooling around the more built up areas. The one negative I see is the relative lack of public transit but I understand that issue is being worked.
[quote=usroute10;38773914][quote=animatedmartian;38771417]Overall though, the whole metro area is vastly more affordable than SoCal but if you want a neighborhood that hasn't declined or isn't too expensive, then you'll likely end up in a suburb.
Suburbs like Royal Oak, Ferndale, and Birmingham are popular with young graduates, as well as the nearby town of Ann Arbor, but that's kind of a hefty commute.
Quote:
I humbly contend that this is simply not true. West Village, Lafayette Park, the East Riverfront, Hubbard Farms/Mexicantown, and New Center are areas of the city that you will find people of his demographic. In addition, there is Hamtramck. All you folks on this site recommending Royal Oak and Ferndale over and over for everybody is really getting old and stale.
Plus, not all of downtown and midtown are crazy expensive.
-You can still rent an apartment at the Hotel Park Avenue (where the Town Pump Tavern is located) for less than $500.
-There are still places in older buildings next to the Wayne State campus where you can rent a studio for $350 to $500.
-There is an apartment building in Brush Park where studios start at $415.
-1-bedroom apartments at the Riverfront Towers in downtown can still be had for $900/month
In addition,
-The historic Alden Park towers on the east riverfront - $450 for a studio.
-Historic Pasadena Apartment tower on East Jefferson - 1 bd starting at $650 and 10 blocks from the RenCen Pasadena Apartments - Detroit, MI 48207 | Apartments for Rent
-2 Bedroom flats in West Village are going for as low as $850
I can go on.
If you live/work in downtown and midtown, you can go WITHOUT having a car, utilizing Uber, ZipCar, SMART BUS, yes the Detroit DOT buses, and the trolley that will be completed next year. I have gone through stretches without a car, and was able to make it work when I lived downtown for 5 months last year.
During past visits I found Mexicantown and some of the other southwestern neighborhoods around there worthy of further consideration. Your thoughts?
Overall though, the whole metro area is vastly more affordable than SoCal but if you want a neighborhood that hasn't declined or isn't too expensive, then you'll likely end up in a suburb.
Suburbs like Royal Oak, Ferndale, and Birmingham are popular with young graduates, as well as the nearby town of Ann Arbor, but that's kind of a hefty commute.
During past visits I found Mexicantown and some of the other southwestern neighborhoods around there worthy of further consideration. Your thoughts?
Mexican town is always a great evening. There are many restaurants around Detroit but finding a good one open after 8:00 pm is sometimes difficult.
Those inner suburbs / SE Oakland County are pretty neat. I had the fortune to pay them a visit about 10 years ago and really liked what I saw. To find that sort of environment, with all the excellent Arts and Crafts homes in mature neighborhoods, with an interesting demographic, you'd be paying out the nose here in the Bay Area (certain parts of Berkeley and Oakland are the least expensive and are still going through the roof). I was messing around on Google street view (doing virtual bike rides) starting from points in Ferndale and Royal Oak, and was really pleased with how quickly I could get out into the "Lake District" and conversely, how relatively compact it was tooling around the more built up areas. The one negative I see is the relative lack of public transit but I understand that issue is being worked.
Worked on like how the government is working on fixing the budget.
Traveling by bus is doable, but communities have the ability to opt-out of bus service if they so choose and that by itself is one of the big barriers. I don't believe any of the suburbs in the lake country have any bus service and there's really been no effort to expand bus service to anywhere. Much of the focus has primarily been on just improving the coverage that already exists, mostly within the city.
For example, if you live in Royal Oak and work in Detroit (or vice versa), then using transit might be doable. But if you live in Royal Oak (or Detroit), and possibly get a job in Livonia, then you're pretty much SOL and going to have to dole out money for a car or some other transportation service. And SE Michigan is about as decentralized as LA so it's not uncommon to have suburb to suburb commutes, but unfortunately with the uneven transit service, it's just entirely more flexible to own a car.
But obviously the plus side is that coming from the coasts, the cost of a car might not really seem like all that much when considering other trade-offs. In the end, it boils down to a person's specific situation on whether this area is right for them.
I see, hmmm based on what others have been saying on here about Detroit, maybe it isn't a good option to start a career in. I mean, at least if things in the city are too unstable and the economy is is still contracting, then it's going to be much more difficult to make a living.
For Toronto, yeah that city is still very enticing as an option. I think it's the city outside the US I'm most serious about making a move to.
As for within the US, the top choices are SF and Chicago. I tried SF last summer for 3 months because I was able to land an internship up there. But man, the cost of living is seriously scaring me away from the Bay Area. I would like to own a small inner city home/row house/condo or whatever eventually and I don't think I could ever save enough for that in the Bay Area. I just worry I'd be a renter my whole life. So that's why I am "scouting" for a greener pasture.
I see, hmmm based on what others have been saying on here about Detroit, maybe it isn't a good option to start a career in. I mean, at least if things in the city are too unstable and the economy is is still contracting, then it's going to be much more difficult to make a living.
For Toronto, yeah that city is still very enticing as an option. I think it's the city outside the US I'm most serious about making a move to.
As for within the US, the top choices are SF and Chicago. I tried SF last summer for 3 months because I was able to land an internship up there. But man, the cost of living is seriously scaring me away from the Bay Area. I would like to own a small inner city home/row house/condo or whatever eventually and I don't think I could ever save enough for that in the Bay Area. I just worry I'd be a renter my whole life. So that's why I am "scouting" for a greener pasture.
The economy here is about as stable as the rest of the country. Obviously Detroit isn't an IT giant like SF with booming development, but the contraction period is years behind us. But I would agree that for a fresh graduate, it's probably not the best place to start out. Maybe in a few years when you've got more savings under your belt from living elsewhere, Detroit might be a better option and even in a better economy.
Last edited by animatedmartian; 03-11-2015 at 05:09 PM..
It isn't weird in my estimation for Detroit isn't what the OP needs. Simple as that.
I have a friend who is a partner in an architecture firm in Toronto, one of the cities the OP has been considering as a potential place to which he might like to relocate. Toronto might make sense -- although I'd suggest that the OP is better off working in, living in, and building a career in his own country -- because it's a growing, livable, big, busy, bustling city with an acceptable transit system, where property values are high, where the economy is strong, and where people are wealthy, therefore old buildings and neighborhoods are being preserved and many new buildings and neighborhoods are being built.
Detroit doesn't make any sense because it has yet to finish bottoming out, it's shrinking, it's hollowed out, it isn't livable, it isn't big, it isn't busy, it isn't bustling, it doesn't have an acceptable transit system, property values are still sliding in many areas, the economy isn't strong, people in the city proper aren't wealthy, disinvestment continues in most parts of the city, etc.
The OP seems to be somewhat naive and idealistic, but this isn't unexpected because he's still a young man who has yet to experience the world. I was most certainly that guy when I was his age. I'm not a total geezer, but I have a little bit more experience than he does and I'm trying to share what I know.
Finally, when it comes to cost of living, all the OP is looking for is a cheaper place than Southern California. Many, if not most, places in the United States fit the bill. Detroit proper is cheap because it isn't terribly pleasant. You get what you pay for to some extent.
The Metro Detroit area is a huge metropolis with 5 million people in its CSA. Among 15 MSA's in the United States analyzed (1.Boston, 2. Atlanta, 3. Dallas-FT. Worth, 4. Cleveland, 5. Indianapolis, 6. Grand Rapids, 7. Minneapolis-St. Paul, 8. St. Louis, 9. Austin, 10. Cincinnati, 11. Seattle, 12. San Jose-Santa Clara, 13. Pittsburgh, 14. Chicago, and Metro Detroit. The Greater Detroit region ranks:
• First in the number of advanced automotive industry jobs.
• First in the number of architectural and engineering services industry jobs
and third in the overall related technologies industry sector.
• Second in number of people working in architectural and engineering
occupations, trailing only San Jose’s Silicon Valley region.
• Fourth in the percentage of total employment (13.7 percent) that is concentrated
within technology industry sectors.
• Fifth in the absolute number of jobs (253,240) within technology industry
sectors.
The Metro Detroit area is a huge metropolis with 5 million people in its CSA. Among 15 MSA's in the United States analyzed (1.Boston, 2. Atlanta, 3. Dallas-FT. Worth, 4. Cleveland, 5. Indianapolis, 6. Grand Rapids, 7. Minneapolis-St. Paul, 8. St. Louis, 9. Austin, 10. Cincinnati, 11. Seattle, 12. San Jose-Santa Clara, 13. Pittsburgh, 14. Chicago, and Metro Detroit. The Greater Detroit region ranks:
• First in the number of advanced automotive industry jobs.
• First in the number of architectural and engineering services industry jobs
and third in the overall related technologies industry sector.
• Second in number of people working in architectural and engineering
occupations, trailing only San Jose’s Silicon Valley region.
• Fourth in the percentage of total employment (13.7 percent) that is concentrated
within technology industry sectors.
• Fifth in the absolute number of jobs (253,240) within technology industry
sectors.
That's swell. I'm pretty sure that the OP wants a walkable city with a proper transit system, not the 'burbs. Detroit proper isn't walkable and it doesn't have a proper transit system. For heaven's sake, his top domestic choices are San Francisco and Chicago! Other than being a city in the United States, contemporary Detroit proper has very little in common with either of those two places. That should clue you in to what kinds of cities might be places he'd appreciate.
I'd live in San Francisco. I've lived in Chicago. I wouldn't live in Detroit and neither would the OP, I'd imagine. Detroit isn't the kind of city that he wants.
The OP has never visited Detroit and he doesn't really know anything about the city. The fact that he is sick of living a car-dependent lifestyle and he wants to get a break from that should be enough alone tip you off that Detroit isn't a good fit. Heck, between Canada and the States, there are probably less than 15 cities that will offer what he wants.
Please don't blind yourself to what the OP wants because you love the Detroit region. I don't take issue with your lifestyle if you happen to live in some safe 'burb/neighboring city, but that isn't what this fella wants. Let's not mislead him into thinking that Detroit proper might be a reasonable fit. I don't think that's a very responsible thing to do.
The OP has never visited Detroit and he doesn't really know anything about the city. The fact that he is sick of living a car-dependent lifestyle and he wants to get a break from that should be enough alone tip you off that Detroit isn't a good fit. Heck, between Canada and the States, there are probably less than 15 cities that will offer what he wants.
That was the kicker for me as well. I like to be pro-Detroit, but the OP wants to get away from car dependency. That makes Detroit a terrible option, unfortunately, if we are all being honest.
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