So... what's Detroit Metro like? (Warren, Ann Arbor: sale, to rent, affordable houses)

[WayneCounty]

Originally Posted by usroute10

...and for the Detroit Institute of Arts.

...and for a performance of the Detroit Symphony Orchestra

...and for the casinos

...and for performances at the Fox Theatre, Fisher Theatre, Masonic Temple, Music Hall, etc.

...and for other fine arts performances, such as the Michigan Opera Theatre, the Detroit Repertory Theatre, and the Detroit Puppet Theatre

...and for the Riverwalk, Dequindre Cut, and Belle Isle for scenic walks and bike rides

...and for Eastern Market

...and for going to the plethora of restaurants and bars that have opened up in Downtown, Midtown, Corktown, and Eastern Market in the past 10 years (LOOK AT THE HOME LOCATIONS OF THE REVIEWERS OF THE FOLLOWING RESTAURANTS - that's all I got to say)

Republic

Wright and Co.

Ottava Via

Detroit City Distillery

Yeah, more things that are completely helping our city. I can list a dozen more tourist attractions too. If you aren't paying taxes to the City of Detroit, you aren't helping our city.

[mgkeith]

Originally Posted by brodie734

it means that black people with enough money to live in those communities are generally not going to be considered part of the problem that is implied by "Detroit" in these types of conversations... they may also be subject to an uninformed perspective that equates blackness with cliched urban culture and would therefore exclude anyone who doesn't fit that stereotype.

Most people I know like neighbors who are friendly and considerate, and take care of their property.

[Republic of Michigan]

Originally Posted by brodie734

so you're going to sit here and say that Metro Detroit does not have a fraught history of racial tensions and segregation problems? And you're going to cite Los Angeles and Chicago as examples that this is normal, as though those aren't cities with ENORMOUS and well publicized issues with segregation? Hell, do you have HBO? Watch Show Me A Hero tonight and learn about the story of Yonkers, an inner ring suburb of NYC, and their 20 year battle against a federal desegregation order to build public housing in white areas. Those areas you cited all have very bad histories with population segregation, the difference with Detroit is that white people abandoned the city en masse and so you ended up with cities like Livonia and Warren, which at the 2000 census were the whitest large cities (over 100,000 people) in the entire country, or with Livonia fighting a decade long legal battle to keep Wal-Mart south of I-96 so as to keep their predominantly black clientele out of it's downtown area.

My point is that Metro Detroit is not the only segregated area. There are plenty of metropolitan areas with the same issues. But if someone asked you how is the greater Chicago area, or the greater Los Angeles area..would you have pointed out that the greater Los Angeles is bad because it is segregated like you did with Detroit?

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by brodie734

...or with Livonia fighting a decade long legal battle to keep Wal-Mart south of I-96 so as to keep their predominantly black clientele out of it's downtown area.

Livonia supported bringing Wal-Mart in as an anchor store at the former Livonia Mall complex (7 and Middlebelt) in 2008. That store's clientele is largely AA drawing from Redford and Detroit. I lived in Livonia for many years and never heard of a decade-long fight to keep Wal-Mart south of 96. Also, Livonia does not have a downtown area.

[brodie734]

Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers

Livonia supported bringing Wal-Mart in as an anchor store at the former Livonia Mall complex (7 and Middlebelt) in 2008. That store's clientele is largely AA drawing from Redford and Detroit. I lived in Livonia for many years and never heard of a decade-long fight to keep Wal-Mart south of 96. Also, Livonia does not have a downtown area.

You're right! I was confusing Livonia's two Wal-Marts... though one could make a very solid case that they are located where they are for specific purposes, one roughly a mile from I-96, Westland and Redford on all sides and the other a mile from Redford and 8 Mile, the long lasting and racially charged battle was over the construction of a larger Wal Mart in what used to be Wonderland Mall south of I-96. That was what inspired lovely campaign posters portraying the Livonia Planning Commission as Nazis (I still have one I picked up after election season somewhere).

Livonia does have what it considers a downtown, but it's a bit of a farce... in city government that is the name for the 5 Mile and Farmington area, per a friend of mine on the LPD.

[brodie734]

Originally Posted by Republic of Michigan

My point is that Metro Detroit is not the only segregated area. There are plenty of metropolitan areas with the same issues. But if someone asked you how is the greater Chicago area, or the greater Los Angeles area..would you have pointed out that the greater Los Angeles is bad because it is segregated like you did with Detroit?

First of all, I didn't make a value judgement based on how segregated Detroit is. I simply said Detroit was highly segregated and advised caution on making broad proclamations on race relations in this area, which are not great by any standard. Your reliance on broad statistical indexes also belies the rather stark difference between most of those areas idea of segregation and Detroit's idea of segregation... in Buffalo, to use an easy example from your list, the issue is that the black community lives almost entirely within the city of Buffalo (where they comprise only 35% of the population) while the majority of the MSA lives outside of the city. This is not comparable to Detroit, which has somewhat rigidly defined (although the barriers are more permeable than they were in 2000) black and white areas... Inkster is black, Taylor is white, Southfield is black, Royal Oak is white, Pontiac is black and Waterford is white. Not only is this particular model of segregation fairly unique, it's also far more destructive for the city which is why Los Angeles and Chicago, far and away more vibrant, are ridiculous comparables for Detroit in any context.

[memph]

Well LA is different in that there's a huge Hispanic population that's often somewhat mixed into the neighbourhoods blacks live in. Otherwise I don't think it's especially different, there's not a whole lot of places that have a mix of black and white in LA or Chicago. One difference though is that there's neighbourhoods with relatively large white populations in the urban core, and you might have people interacting with residents of nearby neighbourhoods with different demographics. I would say that's more true for NYC though, for example you'll have a single subway line passing through neighbourhoods with different demographics so the people on the trains will be relatively diverse. And then there's all sorts of people coming into Manhattan mixing together.

[belleislerunner]

You can buy a perfect starter home in Grosse Pointe for 200K. The parks/Lakeshore drive will remind you of Maine/CT and it's a 15 minute commute to Warren. Awesome schools, stunning architecture, well defined neighborhood layout - that should be your home.

[Geo-Aggie]

Grosse Pointe? Thanks for the suggestion. I just looked at it on the maps, close to where the job would be and close to the lake and city too. I like both of those things. How is it school/safety wise?

Also, I tried to avoid this, but since demographics is definitely where this topic went, I definitely have lived most of my life in upper-middle class suburbia. I currently live in a working-class suburb with about 40% minority population. It's a nice area with good people and an overall great city, but I do wish I had more in common with my neighbors culturally. I'm not opposed to diverse areas, and race isn't a defining factor for me, but it would be nice to live nearby people who share similar values as me toward education and career.

Also, the reason I came here is that one of my references called me to inform me that he had been contacted by the EPA office there about me. That's a promising thing, right?

Oh, and as a former resident of LA, that's not true about Hispanic and Black populations mixing there. They stay just as segregated from each other as they do from White people, possible even more so.

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

GP has all of those things, but is also extremely status conscious. For many of the people there it's about having the right friends, being at the right places and having the right things. Some people love places like that, others not so much.