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Old 02-22-2008, 01:41 PM
 
Location: San Diego
510 posts, read 1,455,649 times
Reputation: 151

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Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincatfish View Post

But I titled this post 'with love', 'cause I had just one small bone to pick with you---the stats that you quoted in your last post (i.e.--the racial makeup of the US and Detroit, as it would pertain to the Presidential election) are just slightly off...If Sen. Obama does go on to A) win the Dem nomination, and then from there B) the Presidency in November, it won't just be blacks that get him there in either case...true we make up about 12% of the US population, but we alone couldn't possibly elect him---his primary victories as of late have been due to the votes of not just blacks, but also those in Sen. Clinton's 'power base'---women of all races, and also blue collar and affluent individuals of the same stripe as well...


Oh, no, no no... You misunderstood me. I was NOT saying that Obama should not be elected...I WAS criticizing Coleman Young Jr for saying "Of course, Detroit should have a BLACK Mayor" Because he was basically saying "the majority should rule" I should have been more specific. It was a criticism only of CAY Jr's comment which I found ignorant and insulting.

My comment had nothing to do with Obama's Presidential run other than using him as an example since the race percentages just happen to be so similar (the 12% thing)

I would LOVE to see a day when a White (or Hispanic or Asian...) person running for mayor of Detroit could actually get some black support in Detroit. That does not MEAN that I must SEE a white mayor to be "happy." It just means that, in the same way Barak has white supporters, it would be nice to see a white person HAVE A FAIR SHOT at the highest office in Detroit. That is certainly NOT the case now. Whereas nationally it is obvious that Obama HAS A FAIR SHOT at the highest office in the country. Does that make sense?
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:12 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,168,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunvixen View Post
Oh, no, no no... You misunderstood me. I was NOT saying that Obama should not be elected...I WAS criticizing Coleman Young Jr for saying "Of course, Detroit should have a BLACK Mayor" Because he was basically saying "the majority should rule" I should have been more specific. It was a criticism only of CAY Jr's comment which I found ignorant and insulting.

My comment had nothing to do with Obama's Presidential run other than using him as an example since the race percentages just happen to be so similar (the 12% thing)

I would LOVE to see a day when a White (or Hispanic or Asian...) person running for mayor of Detroit could actually get some black support in Detroit. That does not MEAN that I must SEE a white mayor to be "happy." It just means that, in the same way Barak has white supporters, it would be nice to see a white person HAVE A FAIR SHOT at the highest office in Detroit. That is certainly NOT the case now. Whereas nationally it is obvious that Obama HAS A FAIR SHOT at the highest office in the country. Does that make sense?
That does make sense. If we live in a free and equal society(call me a dreamer)there should be no "of course the mayor should be black" The mayor should the the best person for the job. That person could be black, white, hispanic, asian, male or female(or anyone race I missed). Imagine a possible candidate of a 80% white city came out and said "of course our mayor should be white" they would be vilified nationally.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
1,781 posts, read 2,670,980 times
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Default Love accepted...and yes, you DO make sense

Hi Sunvixen...my wife gets on me all the time for not always seeing other folks' points completely---so I bow from the waist and humbly admit that I may have misunderstood your post

And it did make absolute sense, the way you put it...I'll use the current upcoming election again as a springboard---Sens. Obama and Clinton BOTH represent a major change from the normal political establishment (read: white male LOL)...the Dem race is so interesting because (and yes, I'm an Obama guy LOL again) whomever wins, we ALL win because it signals America's dissatisfaction with 'business as usual'...the same can be said for Detroit's situation (and I say this with my 'blackness' squarely in place)---Young Jr is outta line with that remark, and frankly, he and others like him need to really shut the expletive deleted up...as an outside observer, and a non-Detroiter, I have noted with alarm Detroit's seemingly endless slide into a civic 'black hole' (no pun intended LOL).

There have been black men in the mayor's office there for quite some time, and to THESE eyes, to quote my grandpa "they ain't done the sweat off a fly's hind end"...if I were living in Detroit, and saw that no progress had been made with things 'the way they are' then I would climb to the top of the tallest building there and scream for change ASAP...and if the BEST candidate for the job ISN'T black, then bibbity-woo, big deal! Get behind the person who CAN do the job---white, asian, hispanic, or a female all of the preceding, and bring Detroit back to a state of prominence.

Bottom line---if the candidate of 'the majority' ain't splittin' enough wood to warm the house, then shuddup and give the axe to someone who can chop faster and better...in plain English, the majority needs to shut up and stay shut up until they can produce a candidate who will actually DO SOMETHING!!! That's more words than I've said in a month of Sundays, but you get my point
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:01 PM
 
Location: San Diego
510 posts, read 1,455,649 times
Reputation: 151
Talking All warm and cuddly!

It's all good Captain! I know what you mean, I was on another thread (*cough*) and I am certain (they actually TOLD me, LOL!) that I came across as some crazy suburban white lady with three cans of mace on her key-chain! lol!

It really isn't the case, but you will probably figure that out for yourself in time. Detroit drives me crazy. And I'm not saying this to be mean, but I get so frustrated... Detroit has so much potential, so much LAND,... and it is just getting wasted like it has for decades. I remember exactly 20 years ago going to Belle Isle and driving down a few of the worst neighborhood streets across the way. I thought to myself "In 20 years this will ALL be beautiful again and I am going to buy a house here have a beautiful garden and go for walks across Jefferson and onto Belle Isle." I even thought the Island would have riding stables again by now. Silly me.

About once or twice a year I go for a drive over there. Nothing has changed. It still look like a war zone. And even though on the drive over i KNOW it's going to be like that, still I get so sad when I see it. There is something about old areas...you can almost feel all the people who lived there at one time. I've found the burnt-out house or empty lots that belonged to my relatives back in the 40s and 50s and strangely I get this profound feeling of...well, I almost cry when I go by there. Maybe I remember hearing all those stories of those places from before I was born...the backyard barbecues, the surprise party for my Great-Great Grandparents 50th anniversary, the soldiers bringing news of several family members killed in WW2... I wasn't there, yet I can see it. You don't get THAT kind of feeling in the burbs. Like somebody pulling at your heart, you know?


So maybe there are other white folks like me. We don't really have "animosity" towards blacks. No. Not really. The feeling is far too sad to be anger. We just don't understand. Places there were soooo wonderful, just left to rot. If the whites moved out, why didn't the blacks pick up and fix up these areas and keep them the way my great grandparents did? You don't have to answer...I already know. I've heard all the answers. I've been asking this question for 25 yrs and I've gotten thousands of opinions from ALL sides. I am mentioning this because I'm trying to let YOU know where I AM coming from. What goes through MY mind when I see Detroit in decay and why it upsets me so much. I would RATHER make fun of it. It is so much better than the depression thinking about it too much brings to me. There are plenty of good people like myself who would love to move back to the city. But, I don't know if Detroit can EVER, in my lifetime, be any better than it is today and that is just not good enough. I don't want to have to live in a "pocket" where the streets are clean and safe. I don't want to pay twice as much for one/third the services.


So, maybe, just maybe this KWAMEGATE scandal will be the thing to finally turn the city around. But, if you don't get a large majority of the city to stand up to him, nothing will change.

I've always figured that the city is being depressed purposely. I'll stick with that thought. Whether it's Kwame's dad or all the business people from the richest burbs, they want huge parts of Detroit for nothing. The way to do that is to let it decay. How does it continue, why doesn't anybody do anything about it? Because there is not one honest person in charge of Detroit. Not one.

To the uninformed (and MOST people are uninformed, regardless of skin color) it may seem like the blacks run Detroit. They don't. There are people behind them, in the shadows. Only a couple of them are black. The black faces you see? Middlemen. If anybody takes the time to really investigate, they can get an idea of what I mean. Again, the only way to get any REAL change is to get rid of ALL of them and elect new leaders and watch them closely. But, it would have to be by a large majority, a slim margin is too easy to fix in an election.

I have a lot of anger toward Black Ministers in Detroit. Certainly not ALL of them. But, enough of them are sure hypocrites. They drive expensive cars and live good life off the backs of their congregations (and many of them take $$$ to endorse political candidates and you and i both know it) but do NOT do right by the members. In fact...instead of me telling you what i don't like about them, let me say this: If they REALLY cared about the citizens of Detroit, every single inner city church would offer a literacy program. They could have people volunteer one or two nights a week and teach illiterate people to read. knowledge is POWER, and as long as almost half the city is illiterate, they can easily be taken advantage of. They can't go and look up things and check facts. This is terrible!! It is terrible ALL over, but other places do not have THAT high a rate. These minsters say they are "doing God's work" but they are really looking out for themselves and I find that horrible. It's almost as bad as the Catholic priests molesting children. Not quite, but it all comes down to people in power taking advantage of weaker people. It's bad, but when you do it in the name of God, to me, it's even worse.

See, what everyone fails to see is: There has always been plenty of money around. It's just not getting to the city. If somebody is making 3, 4 500K a year by NOT working at making the city better, why would they want to have to roll their sleeves up and actually WORK hard for 1/4 of that?
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:21 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,168,576 times
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The good "pockets" will grow if people care for them and spend money to encourage business and people to want to be there. Discouraging people from being in the city and focusing on the negative assures nothing will change and depression will win. Change comes through focusing on and growing the positive not spreading the negative which seems to be the theme of many of these threads.
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Old 02-23-2008, 12:29 AM
 
Location: San Diego
510 posts, read 1,455,649 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acupunk View Post
The good "pockets" will grow if people care for them and spend money to encourage business and people to want to be there. Discouraging people from being in the city and focusing on the negative assures nothing will change and depression will win. Change comes through focusing on and growing the positive not spreading the negative which seems to be the theme of many of these threads.


You cannot focus on the positive aspect of a beautiful rose while a swarm of bees is attacking you. You MUST deal with the bees FIRST!



While I see your point, I am giving MY opinion. I think where you and I REALLY differ is that you believe what you just said. And that is wonderful. But I don't believe it. Before you get mad, let me 'splain: It is the political corruption in Detroit MORE than any other reason that keeps it down. This is NOT true elsewhere. Not to this degree. Say by some miracle, next week 100,000 Detroit citizens staged a peaceful 48 hour protest of the city. All colors, all ages...and in two weeks all city government was replaced with the condition that we will vote in 6 months whether to keep these new Council members, Mayor...do you know what would happen?

The quickest start of a rebound of a major city in U.S. history.

In other words, once you take the power away from the corrupt leaders and the "enablers" that support them, and replace them with respectable people know for their good character and good track records of leadership (color does matter at all), the credibility comes back, the pride follows, and the city stops being the laughing stock of the country. More credibility means more outside willingness to invest...investment brings new better paying jobs. And on and on.

P.S. I hope I can say this so you understand what I am trying to say: You know what BOTHERS me "FOR" the people of Detroit? I feel badly that they are represented by (mostly) a bunch of a**backward idiots! I work downtown with some of the most respectable, most articulate, most business savvy people in the state! Why can't Detroit elect the kind of people that actually KNOW how to run things AND act like professional, dignified people? Why?

Look at: Mayor Kwame, Matt Allen, Sharon McPhail, Monica Conyers to name just a few...do they set a good example for young people? Look at Martha Reeves...I'm sure she may be a nice lady, but if you look into it, she has quite a number of unfavorable things on her record, and that is besides the fact that she doesn't really know what the heck her job is! She is quite clueless, but she got elected because people knew her name because she was a singer.

No city can prosper without good leadership. As I mentioned on another thread, my friend's son bought a house in the New Center area. He put a lot of time and money into it, but he wants out because he has been the victim of numerous crimes and his taxes are 3xs as much as he would pay anywhere else.

In other words, I do not agree that these little "pockets" will ever, ever grow into much more than they are now. (There have ALWAYS been certain areas that are nice and well cared for, but they are a small fraction of the city.) At the end of the day, people will realize that they can ge much more for their money outside of Detroit.

The things that ARE wrong with Detroit and make it the "most miserable city"...the crime, the drugs, the public school issues, the political corruption, the illiteracy, the race issues, the stressfulness, some of the economic issues, in fact everything EXCEPT the weather, can be helped, in some cases even SOLVED, by better leadership. Without that one big change, nothing else really matters. Nothing else will really change on a larger level.

Much like say, an alcoholic,...what is the saying? You have to hit rock bottom and ADMIT there is a problem before you can start to get up? If Detroiters will not admit there is a problem with it's leadership, it is destined to stay where it is or get even worse. What you hear people like me saying...that IS the reputation of the City of Detroit, a once Great City. "Not saying it out loud" doesn't make it better. Doing CONSTRUCTIVE THINGS TO ACTUALLY CHANGE THE CITY WILL CHANGE IT'S REPUTATION! Look at how far cities like Chicago and New York City have come in the past couple decades.

Detroit has this terrible habit of blaming everyone else for it's problems, and it has leaders who encourage that attitude. Simply "saying" that things are better than they are, or concentrating on only a small fraction of the city is NOT going to help anyone.

But... here is the one exciting thing: This 'Kwame-gate" may end up being the biggest blessing Detroit could ever hope for. Because it MAY finally wake up the voters and they may actually be fed up just enough to change things. I feel it happening. I hear insightful comments from people that blow my mind. Detroiters I have known for years who are suddenly changing their opinion, not only of Kwame but of the whole bunch! And these same people are now realizing that they made bad choices in the voting booth before and are adamant about not repeating their mistakes. I feel there is hope! But...I have been around here far too long to get too excited TOO quickly. Believe me, if there is a real turnaround, I will be the first one shouting from the rooftops.

Maybe because you are not in MI right now, you do not fully realize what a big deal this Scandal is. It IS big and will get much bigger. I pray something good may come out of it. But, in the meantime, if somebody asks my opinion of the city, I will give it to them. 85% of the city is a gutter.

P.S. Well, as of tonight Matt Allen is finally gone. For now.
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Old 02-23-2008, 01:09 AM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,168,576 times
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I am in Detroit right now, I live in the Warrendale neighborhood of the city.

Calling the city a gutter is not dealing with the bees, it's just talk, not action. I agree with a lot of what you say and I plan to use my vote to do what I can, but in the meantime I'm going to go Downtown, midtown, mexicantown, eastern market and other places I enjoy. I'm going to support the people and businesses who believe in this city and are taking action just by being there.

Have you been to the new children's bookstore in Corktown? The owner is a person making a difference, I believe you would have told her to open her bookstore in birmingham and showed her a bunch of crime videos to scare her out of the city. I would consider opening my business nearby, that is how good "pockets" grow into nice neighborhoods that have power and use it to fight bad leadership. If we all stay in the suburbs complaining nothing will ever change.

I believe you mean well, but imagining and spreading the idea of possibles crimes that haven't happened, like students being gang raped is not helping this city. You are obviously passionate and articulate but your wasting that passion trying to draw people into hysterical fear and hopelessness. You could get involved with politics and take action toward change.

I'm sorry your son's friend is having such a hard time. Has he talked with his neighbors about banding together and creating a neighborhood watch and writing letters demanding more police? A group of people working together can become a real pain in the butt to bad leadership. Real change takes action, it's hard and often painful, but it can be done if you refuse to give in to hopelessness.

Last edited by detshen; 02-23-2008 at 01:33 AM..
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Old 02-24-2008, 10:02 PM
 
999 posts, read 4,513,271 times
Reputation: 425
Quote:
Cox was getting blackmailed from so many different directions that he finally had to get on tv and pull his poor wife up there and cry like a baby.
I remember the trial of the Detroit cop who was charged with murder (and acquitted by jury) when he shot the deaf, stoned rake-wielding guy. It was on Court TV. The officer got emotional and began crying when being cross examined by Cox. Cox stood there, and his voice dripping with scorn and sarcasm asked: "What are you gonna do now, CRRRYYYY?!?!?!"

I couldn't help but laugh when he got up on TV crying like a punk because he got caught with his weener in the cookie jar. He ridiculed a cop on trial for murder for crying on the stand after he killed a guy he thought was going to kill him, but he couldn't keep it together himself when people learned he couldn't keep little Mikey Jr. in his pants. What a scumbag. I usually vote a straight Republican ticket, but I split it when that jerk was running for AG.
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Old 02-26-2008, 04:24 PM
 
1 posts, read 2,875 times
Reputation: 10
KK is being victim of all types of hate because his people love him. That is it.
Some so called "Know -everything" want to decide always at the expense of other.
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Old 02-26-2008, 06:11 PM
 
Location: San Diego
510 posts, read 1,455,649 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by and the View Post
I remember the trial of the Detroit cop who was charged with murder (and acquitted by jury) when he shot the deaf, stoned rake-wielding guy. It was on Court TV. The officer got emotional and began crying when being cross examined by Cox. Cox stood there, and his voice dripping with scorn and sarcasm asked: "What are you gonna do now, CRRRYYYY?!?!?!"

I couldn't help but laugh when he got up on TV crying like a punk because he got caught with his weener in the cookie jar. He ridiculed a cop on trial for murder for crying on the stand after he killed a guy he thought was going to kill him, but he couldn't keep it together himself when people learned he couldn't keep little Mikey Jr. in his pants. What a scumbag. I usually vote a straight Republican ticket, but I split it when that jerk was running for AG.
I can't stand Cox!! Um, perhaps I should rephrase that? I cannot stand Mike Cox! He is such a hypocrite.
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