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Old 08-15-2016, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,786 posts, read 2,641,876 times
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If people are moving in, it's not really overpriced, and from what I understand Midtown doesn't have an issue with vacant rentals. What the expensive apartments in Midtown cause is the "cool" and "hip" people to move into areas nearby while Downtown and Midtown can continue to appeal more to professionals without kids - arguably the best demographic to have around for a city's tax base. This is good for the city. You'll get a more hipsterified New Center and North End and yes, maybe Hamtramck - but I do wonder how it plays out if we get rainbow flags flying in a neighborhood like Hamtramck. Detroit is quite the melting pot, how far can the tolerance go?
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Old 08-15-2016, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Chicago
944 posts, read 1,197,146 times
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I think what happened in Midtown is simultaneously encouraging and discouraging... it developed a reputation for being hip and gentrifying and within 5 years was immediately overtaken by developers. It's not fully there in terms of blight removal or crime reduction, but vacancies are rare, rents are rising and the solutions to the lack of housing stock are more and more luxury condos/apartments. Woodbridge and New Center are getting in on the act, but I don't see a way that they don't follow the same sudden stratification as Downtown, Midtown and Corktown of late. People can still find a nice apartment on a middle class salary in places like the Villages but vacancies are low and rents may catch up with the other gentrified areas soon enough.

All of this is fine except a big part of Detroit's appeal outside of SE Michigan is that it is supposed to be some kind of urban frontier, a place where someone can live like they're in Greenwich Village in 1972 and have their own apartment while working as a barista and a freelance graphic artist. That was Midtown for a few minutes, but those days are over. There are a few stable areas like Mexicantown that MIGHT be able to attract these types, but there's little evidence that this is happening. And that is where Hamtramck comes in... it could be a neighborhood on Chicago's West or (far) North Sides but it will likely never see the kind of rents that you see in adjacent areas of Detroit due to not having the name brand appeal. Maybe the current Middle Eastern/South Asian plurality wouldn't be down with the hipster set's values. but so? Hamtramck went from being mostly Polish to largely Muslim in the course of a single decade, from 1990-2000. It can happen again.
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:18 AM
 
1,996 posts, read 3,129,518 times
Reputation: 2302
Quote:
Originally Posted by brodie734 View Post
I think what happened in Midtown is simultaneously encouraging and discouraging... it developed a reputation for being hip and gentrifying and within 5 years was immediately overtaken by developers. It's not fully there in terms of blight removal or crime reduction, but vacancies are rare, rents are rising and the solutions to the lack of housing stock are more and more luxury condos/apartments. Woodbridge and New Center are getting in on the act, but I don't see a way that they don't follow the same sudden stratification as Downtown, Midtown and Corktown of late. People can still find a nice apartment on a middle class salary in places like the Villages but vacancies are low and rents may catch up with the other gentrified areas soon enough.

All of this is fine except a big part of Detroit's appeal outside of SE Michigan is that it is supposed to be some kind of urban frontier, a place where someone can live like they're in Greenwich Village in 1972 and have their own apartment while working as a barista and a freelance graphic artist. That was Midtown for a few minutes, but those days are over. There are a few stable areas like Mexicantown that MIGHT be able to attract these types, but there's little evidence that this is happening. And that is where Hamtramck comes in... it could be a neighborhood on Chicago's West or (far) North Sides but it will likely never see the kind of rents that you see in adjacent areas of Detroit due to not having the name brand appeal. Maybe the current Middle Eastern/South Asian plurality wouldn't be down with the hipster set's values. but so? Hamtramck went from being mostly Polish to largely Muslim in the course of a single decade, from 1990-2000. It can happen again.
Aaahhh, Mr. 734, the low-key Detroit hater

There are still affordable rentals in Midtown

You have to compare apples to apples. Those Greenwich Village barista/artists were most likely living in un-updated, 1 bedroom apartments - the most expensive rentals in Midtown are the new builds and the newly renovated spaces. If you look in Midtown Detroit Inc. website you will see a lot of the older apartments and flats in non-gutted out or non-completely rehabbed units going for very reasonable prices for example:

1535 West Canfield - 2 bed, 1 bath - $700

287 E. Edsel Ford - 600 sq foot one bedroom - $500 (on the I-94 service drive though)

295 E. Ferry - 1+ bed, 1+ bath - $700-$1000

4246 Second (2 family Victorian house) - Studio - $800

4340 Trumbull - Efficiencies and 1 bedroom apt - $450-$550

4319 Avery - Victorian two-family flat house - $99,900

4340 Commonwealth - 2 bed, 2 bath flat - $1,000 (find a roommmate, only $500/person!)



4425 John R, 1 bed - $650; 2 bed - $900

626-628 E. Ferry - 3 bed, 1 bath - $1,100 (find 2 roommates, $400/person)

633 W. Hancock - 1+ bed, 1+ bath - $475 - $1,000

There are rentals in other core neighborhoods that are still affordable

Milwaukee-Junction

Loft rentals starting at $600 in this converted warehouse

http://www.loftplace.com/milwaukee.php


Lafayatte Park

City Place Apartments (steps from Eastern Market and Greektown) - studios from $729
http://www.apartments.com/city-place...it-mi/hmk20b0/

Lafayette Towers - studios staring at $729
Lafayette Towers Apartments - Detroit, MI 48207 | Apartments for Rent

There are other examples, but I have limited time


LASTLY, You bash Midtown for the blight and crime

BLIGHT - Midtown is about 1.8 miles north-south, 1 mile east-west; that is a very large area that is going
to take time to revitalize

CRIME - is decreasing

How Midtown became Detroit's safest neighborhood
"According to Wayne State University, major crimes in Midtown have decreased by 52 percent since 2008, significantly outpacing the 18 percent decline citywide over the same period."


Detroit
"As of July 1, violent crime is down 26 percent from the last year in the Corridor and the New Center, the area defined by police as Midtown. But tensions between rival drug gangs led to three shootings May 27-29, Szilagy said."
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Old 08-16-2016, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Chicago
944 posts, read 1,197,146 times
Reputation: 1153
if what I said constitutes "bashing" Midtown, I don't know how you converse with people on a day to day basis without becoming constantly enraged.

I did not say that affordable rents did not exist in the city, certainly they do (though increasingly, as your links indicate, the $850 and lower bracket is now basically studios or bust) but they are fewer and farther between. You should visit Reddit's subpage for people considering moving to Detroit sometime and see what the expectations of out of towners are... people want to live here while working 30 hour weeks. It's just not realistic.

I also don't consider saying Hamtramck is a potential spot for gentrification as Detroit becomes more expensive to be any form of "Detroit hate". Good lord.
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Old 08-17-2016, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,851 posts, read 2,278,344 times
Reputation: 4545
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMetro View Post
9 Mile and Coolidge is Oak Park, FYI.
I'm aware of this, my point was it is right next to Huntington Woods so if HW got really hot and expanded that area could turn into it's downtown. I just can't see Oak Park booming all of a sudden all by itself.
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Old 08-17-2016, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,851 posts, read 2,278,344 times
Reputation: 4545
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Ferndale doesn't look very different from 20 years ago, and has an affordable market, not an "inflating one". It's the cheapest Woodward corridor city between Detroit and Pontiac.

The main difference is that the schools have gone downhill, so usually people move to other suburbs once their kids reach school age.

Oak Park, excepting the small part that goes to Berkley schools, has never been worse. That community is in serious decline.
Ferndale was getting seriously run down in the mid-90s. Now it looks better kept than RO was back then, and has more than a few hip places. I haven't been to downtown Ferndale in literally 20 years - just never had a reason, really - and when we went there for an art fair last year I could see the difference right away. I think it's had quite a transformation.

Agree about Oak Park. It's going down. The problem is, there's simply nothing attractive there. Mainly small old homes, blue collar neighborhoods, some apartments that almost look like projects. They used to have a large Jewish community at some point, but I think the majority moved to other suburbs, and only some Orhodox people stayed behind - many of them are too poor to afford moving. The schools are very mediocre and there's no downtown to speak of. On the other hand, it's very close to B'Ham and RO, and just 20-25 min away from Downtown Detroit. I guess if they fixed their schools, they'd have a fighting chance as long as the overall area doesn't go in decline.
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Old 08-17-2016, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,851 posts, read 2,278,344 times
Reputation: 4545
Quote:
Originally Posted by brodie734 View Post
I think what happened in Midtown is simultaneously encouraging and discouraging... it developed a reputation for being hip and gentrifying and within 5 years was immediately overtaken by developers. It's not fully there in terms of blight removal or crime reduction, but vacancies are rare, rents are rising and the solutions to the lack of housing stock are more and more luxury condos/apartments. Woodbridge and New Center are getting in on the act, but I don't see a way that they don't follow the same sudden stratification as Downtown, Midtown and Corktown of late. People can still find a nice apartment on a middle class salary in places like the Villages but vacancies are low and rents may catch up with the other gentrified areas soon enough.

All of this is fine except a big part of Detroit's appeal outside of SE Michigan is that it is supposed to be some kind of urban frontier, a place where someone can live like they're in Greenwich Village in 1972 and have their own apartment while working as a barista and a freelance graphic artist. That was Midtown for a few minutes, but those days are over. There are a few stable areas like Mexicantown that MIGHT be able to attract these types, but there's little evidence that this is happening. And that is where Hamtramck comes in... it could be a neighborhood on Chicago's West or (far) North Sides but it will likely never see the kind of rents that you see in adjacent areas of Detroit due to not having the name brand appeal. Maybe the current Middle Eastern/South Asian plurality wouldn't be down with the hipster set's values. but so? Hamtramck went from being mostly Polish to largely Muslim in the course of a single decade, from 1990-2000. It can happen again.
Have you even been to Hammtramck lately ? Women covered head to toe in religious garb with just a slit for their eyes, ads in Arabic everywhere, signs for Islamic religious schools, the place looks more foreign than anything I've seen in Detroit area. Where are you going to move all these people to gentrify Hammtramck ?

The Poles who moved out in just a decade were living there for a century. The new immigrants are just as likely to live there for decades. Their culture and values are very different and this may prevent many hipsters from moving there, who'd be otherwise fine living amongst Poles, Ukrainians or some other immigrant people fresh off the boat. I am not attacking them, merely stating a fact - if you're a young gay female arist with pink hair, you probably are not welcome there, and it's likely going to be more than just dirty looks.

The only way I see Hammtramck rising is if someone starts pouring serious money into development.
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Old 08-18-2016, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,701 posts, read 79,347,054 times
Reputation: 39409
The restoration of midtown is awesome, the slapping up of "luxury" apartments is worrisome. I have seen that elsewhere. They are only "luxury" for a few years, then the slapped together construction starts to show its head and they become "dated" and eventually "blighted" The now troublesome apartments degrade and people move in with 6 - 8 roommates. These big groups have lot of parties and/or create other problems and the apartments next door become less desireable both because of the neighboring building and because they are also starting to have a myriad of problems (leaks, things that do not work and cannot be repaired, odor, etc.). The new growth areas turn to new decay areas. As the rush built "new" "luxury" apartments become the new slums.

The more they restore cool homes and buildings the more this can be prevented. The older buildings maintain charm and appeal even when the restoration gets old and needs re-work. People still want to live there and the area can remain vital.

Areas that get completely built out with temporarily "new luxury" apartments do not retain any charm or desire ability when they become dated and the grow less and less desirable until someone tears them down and replaces them.

A few of the new buildings they are putting up are unique and have some merit so they may well remain desirable after they become dated, but those are very few. Most are of the "slap it up cheap" variety. If they mix it up, the charming or otherwise unique buildings that remain desirable may help maintain the desirability of an area, but the areas that are completely re-done with slap it ups will decay once again.
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Old 08-18-2016, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,851 posts, read 2,278,344 times
Reputation: 4545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
The restoration of midtown is awesome, the slapping up of "luxury" apartments is worrisome. I have seen that elsewhere. They are only "luxury" for a few years, then the slapped together construction starts to show its head and they become "dated" and eventually "blighted" The now troublesome apartments degrade and people move in with 6 - 8 roommates. These big groups have lot of parties and/or create other problems and the apartments next door become less desireable both because of the neighboring building and because they are also starting to have a myriad of problems (leaks, things that do not work and cannot be repaired, odor, etc.). The new growth areas turn to new decay areas. As the rush built "new" "luxury" apartments become the new slums.

The more they restore cool homes and buildings the more this can be prevented. The older buildings maintain charm and appeal even when the restoration gets old and needs re-work. People still want to live there and the area can remain vital.

Areas that get completely built out with temporarily "new luxury" apartments do not retain any charm or desire ability when they become dated and the grow less and less desirable until someone tears them down and replaces them.

A few of the new buildings they are putting up are unique and have some merit so they may well remain desirable after they become dated, but those are very few. Most are of the "slap it up cheap" variety. If they mix it up, the charming or otherwise unique buildings that remain desirable may help maintain the desirability of an area, but the areas that are completely re-done with slap it ups will decay once again.
I'm patiently waiting for the rush built "luxury" Royal Oak apartments to become slums. They've got to be about 15 years old, I shouldn't wait much longer.
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Old 08-18-2016, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,701 posts, read 79,347,054 times
Reputation: 39409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
I'm patiently waiting for the rush built "luxury" Royal Oak apartments to become slums. They've got to be about 15 years old, I shouldn't wait much longer.
Royal Oak is not an inner city. It is a suburb. Royal Oak is also exceptional because it was the only decent option for 20 somethings for the past decade plus. It could go the way so many cities have, or it may not. The same is true of the slap it up buildings in midtown. It may or may not go that way, but it has in other cities, so it is worrysome.
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