Trying to figure out Detroit suburbs... (Livonia, Troy: safe area, school districts, subdivision)

[leroythelion]

Originally Posted by y2c313

I don't consider any downtown in a suburb to be a real downtown. The only real downtown in the area is Downtown Detroit. Major cities have downtowns, not suburbs. I suppose Ann Arbor can claim one cause they're kinda separate from the Detroit area in my opinion.

True. "Downtown" is where hundreds of thousands of people, even millions in some cities, go every day to work, see a play, concert or sporting event, go to bars and restaurants, go shopping or to a hospital. It is where parking is a nightmare and you pay anything to get into a spot so that you are not late for your appointment. It's trouble when the bars close, panhandlers looking for spare change, and a place for seediness and riff raff to "accumulate".

[Geo-Aggie]

Downtown is just a term. There's no quantitative definition that decides what is and is not. You can call suburban "downtowns" whatever you wish, but the traditionally accepted term is downtown and having an argument about semantics isn't really important.

What is important is how much do you value walkability. I live on the edge of "Downtown" Royal Oak (call it Central Royal Oak if you prefer) I do the vast majority of my errands without a car. My wife, kid and I go for walks almost every night. We go to parks, patio restaurants, coffee shops, movies, the library, the farmers market, etc. We can hit all of these in one trip if we really want - all without a car, bike, or breaking a sweat. This area of our city was planned and laid out before all families having cars was a thing, and it has retained this character. I value this. Can you find that anywhere in Canton? Troy? et al.?

Don't get me wrong, those are all great towns. They have a lot going for them, but they're not very walkable. This is all ColdJensens and others are trying to point out. If you don't value walkability having a "downtown" is useless to you. Troy and Canton have tons of character, they're just... not quaint. The same could be said of many, many other suburbs in Metro Detroit and Metro Anywhere, for that matter. Upscale, car-centric, sprawl, with great schools, wonderful planned subdivisions and lots of money really dominated our urban planning for the better part of a century. This is okay for many - if not most - but others, like myself, aren't really into that. That's why to someone like me, Canton has no charm.

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

Downtown is just a term. There's no quantitative definition that decides what is and is not. You can call suburban "downtowns" whatever you wish, but the traditionally accepted term is downtown and having an argument about semantics isn't really important.

What is important is how much do you value walkability. I live on the edge of "Downtown" Royal Oak (call it Central Royal Oak if you prefer) I do the vast majority of my errands without a car. My wife, kid and I go for walks almost every night. We go to parks, patio restaurants, coffee shops, movies, the library, the farmers market, etc. We can hit all of these in one trip if we really want - all without a car, bike, or breaking a sweat. This area of our city was planned and laid out before all families having cars was a thing, and it has retained this character. I value this. Can you find that anywhere in Canton? Troy? et al.?

Don't get me wrong, those are all great towns. They have a lot going for them, but they're not very walkable. This is all ColdJensens and others are trying to point out. If you don't value walkability having a "downtown" is useless to you. Troy and Canton have tons of character, they're just... not quaint. The same could be said of many, many other suburbs in Metro Detroit and Metro Anywhere, for that matter. Upscale, car-centric, sprawl, with great schools, wonderful planned subdivisions and lots of money really dominated our urban planning for the better part of a century. This is okay for many - if not most - but others, like myself, aren't really into that. That's why to someone like me, Canton has no charm.

And now this guy on the internet has introduced the all important "walkability" and "charm" scales. Duly noted. Because those of us who live in our wealthy yet soulless, character-less suburban-sprawl hellholes have no ability to go outside of our homes and take a walk with our families should we desire. Nope. Its a concrete hellhole for us. We sit in dark rooms staring at screens while not interacting with each other whatsoever. No parks or sidewalks exist in this soulless suburbia hellscape.

I envy your charm-filled existence, sir! Enjoy a GMO-free kale green smoothie for those of us trapped in the soulless slums.

[Geo-Aggie]

Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers

And now this guy on the internet has introduced the all important "walkability" and "charm" scales. Duly noted. Because those of us who live in our wealthy yet soulless, character-less suburban-sprawl hellholes have no ability to go outside of our homes and take a walk with our families should we desire. Nope. Its a concrete hellhole for us. We sit in dark rooms staring at screens while not interacting with each other whatsoever. No parks or sidewalks exist in this soulless suburbia hellscape.

I envy your charm-filled existence, sir! Enjoy a GMO-free kale green smoothie for those of us trapped in the soulless slums.

Really? Is an ad-hominem really what you're going to resort to? While misrepresenting what I said while you're at it? Cool, bro. You do that.

There are more, and typically larger parks in the exurbs than in the inner ring suburbs, I recognize that. If you want to go walk around these large parks with your kids, run with the dog, throw a frisbee, that's great! That's a lot of fun and I don't know why you're trying to pretend like I didn't specifically compliment the towns you just called soulless. Simply because the number of amenities you can walk to is lower than in the more compact older suburbs doesn't make them bad. Seriously, why are we even having this conversation? Some people like Option 1, some people like Option 2, some people probably even like Option 3 better, and that's all okay. You and I prefer something different - sorry if it offends you that car-centric suburbia doesn't appeal to me, but I'm sure you won't lose any sleep over it.

And as an FYI, I actually support GMOs, because I value feeding the 7 billion people in the world, plus many GMOs taste great. Oh, and I'm not a huge fan of kale. I prefer spinach which has similar nutritional values, but tastes better. Now what exactly did that have to do with anything? Like, at all?

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

Really? Is an ad-hominem really what you're going to resort to? While misrepresenting what I said while you're at it? Cool, bro. You do that.

There are more, and typically larger parks in the exurbs than in the inner ring suburbs, I recognize that. If you want to go walk around these large parks with your kids, run with the dog, throw a frisbee, that's great! That's a lot of fun and I don't know why you're trying to pretend like I didn't specifically compliment the towns you just called soulless. Simply because the number of amenities you can walk to is lower than in the more compact older suburbs doesn't make them bad. Seriously, why are we even having this conversation? Some people like Option 1, some people like Option 2, some people probably even like Option 3 better, and that's all okay. You and I prefer something different - sorry if it offends you that car-centric suburbia doesn't appeal to me, but I'm sure you won't lose any sleep over it.

And as an FYI, I actually support GMOs, because I value feeding the 7 billion people in the world, plus many GMOs taste great. Oh, and I'm not a huge fan of kale. I prefer spinach which has similar nutritional values, but tastes better. Now what exactly did that have to do with anything? Like, at all?

I was pointing out the absurdity of the catchall terms used to describe cities on here.

It was a joke. Lighten up.

[craig11152]

Originally Posted by brodie734

.... when one says "I'm going downtown for dinner" ...In Washtenaw, people would assume Ann Arbor.

That would not be my experience. The only people I know who would say that live in Ann Arbor or some parts of a couple Townships that abut the city limits.
People I know in Chelsea would mean downtown Chelsea or they would say "I'm going to Ann Arbor for dinner" . Same for people I know in Ypsilanti and chunks of Ypsilanti township. People I know in Dexter, Milan, Manchester, Whitmore Lake would say "I'm going to Ann Arbor for dinner".

[brodie734]

Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers

And now this guy on the internet has introduced the all important "walkability" and "charm" scales. Duly noted. Because those of us who live in our wealthy yet soulless, character-less suburban-sprawl hellholes have no ability to go outside of our homes and take a walk with our families should we desire. Nope. Its a concrete hellhole for us. We sit in dark rooms staring at screens while not interacting with each other whatsoever. No parks or sidewalks exist in this soulless suburbia hellscape.

I envy your charm-filled existence, sir! Enjoy a GMO-free kale green smoothie for those of us trapped in the soulless slums.

You seem pretty bitter.

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by brodie734

You seem pretty bitter.

I'm really not. I just get tired of the overused cliches on here. I also find it funny that the hipsters get uber-sensitive when your gently riff on their hipsterdom.

[Coldjensens]

Spinach is much better raw than cooked. Cooked spinach get kind of a disgusting texture.


What was this thread about?

[Yac]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

What was this thread about?

That's the question everybody taking part in the discussion should ask themselves
Yac.