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Old 10-24-2016, 08:54 AM
 
4,020 posts, read 2,925,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Not at all the case. Plenty of places that are on the uptick have empty storefronts.
New empty storefronts, perhaps. When you have tenants being forced out of existing locations and others being priced out of moving in, that is definitely not a sign of prosperity as it adds no value - no overall revenue growth and no taxes being collected to the location.
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Old 10-24-2016, 09:04 AM
 
292 posts, read 204,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie View Post
Not at all. 734 stated that when outer burbs gain, inner burbs lose, what I did was specifically show otherwise. I also showed that as a whole, and as a metro, the entire area gained. I know many would like to see Detroit continue to decline for some unexplained reason, but that simply isn't happening. In fact, the metro as a whole grew by about 4,000 people from 2010 to 2015, which is significant since everyone knows the metro as a whole was bleeding population as late as 2013. Did some of the suburban growth come from Detroit? Of course, but not most. And that's a trend which is quickly righting itself, due to good city leadership. - In fact, according to Mayor Duggan, "I'm very confident that the city of Detroit is growing now and that will be reflected in the next report," Duggan said. "People aren't moving out at anywhere near the rate they were. They are choosing to stay. We're at a historic tipping point."

Also, the end of your post isn't only hyperbole, but it's downright inaccurate. Chicago for example lost more population than Detroit in 2015, making Cook County the biggest population loser of 2015 - yes, bigger than Wayne County (note for whoever fact checks me, I'm referencing the change from 2014 to 2015 alone, not 2010 to 2015) and while California is growing, very little of that is domestic migration. Finally, if you've not seen the thousands of Illinois, Ohio, Ontario and Indiana plates around the metro, I don't know what to tell you, pay more attention? Another interesting point is the National Movers Study, which shows which states are inbound and outbound states for movers. An expected piece of information here is that Michigan was a High-Outbound state from 1995-2012, but then in 2013 it became neutral. 2014 showed low-outbound and 2015 again neutral - making it quite the bright spot in the Great Lakes region. This means the people who leave are being replaced. Over time this will translate to population growth, as a healthy economy will lead to people having families. Personally I don't think the long time residents of Canton, Novi, and Royal Oak care if the family next door is white or not, this isn't 1967. Nah, they're just happy to see a good family in town.
I think you need to do more homework. The latest census report on population by states has Michigan at 46th in population growth. Right before Rhode Island,Maine, Vermont and West Virginia. Some company Michigan is in, hanging with states with populations so low that they have never had growth. Secondly,I did not mention race at all like you did. I said the older upper class residents of Novi,Royal Oak, Canton etc did not take kindly to families from cities like Southfield, Oak Park, Redford, Warren, Sterling Heights, Eastpointe etc (these are the individuals who sold their homes to "Detroiters") moving into their previously high valued communities. Because the price of homes dropped so low in Metro Detroit suburbs, anyone who had a home that had some equity or were renting and was still employed could move into communities that were previously only a dream. In my opinion, this is why Metro Detroit is the best kept secret in the country. For $200,000 to $350,000 you can live like a king with good public schools, safety and not behind a security gate.
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Old 10-24-2016, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
27,759 posts, read 65,587,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekman243 View Post
The latest census report on population by states has Michigan at 46th in population growth. Right before Rhode Island,Maine, Vermont and West Virginia. S
Do you mean 2010?

Or do you mean a census estimate?

If you are relying on 2010 information for this area, it is pretty useless information. If relying on the census estimate or guess, it will depend on when the guess was made, who made it and what information they based that guess upon.
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Old 10-24-2016, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,802,456 times
Reputation: 2624
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekman243 View Post
Unlike Metro areas like Chicago,New York Atlanta, Dc, Los Angeles etc all you see are Michigan license plates.
What part of Michigan do you live in? It can't be Metro Detroit if your only seeing Michigan plates. I can't even run to the store in Detroit without seeing a Ohio plate or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie View Post
Finally, if you've not seen the thousands of Illinois, Ohio, Ontario and Indiana plates around the metro, I don't know what to tell you, pay more attention?
Agreed. First time I ever heard that one lol. I see quite a few New York plates as well for some reason.
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Old 10-24-2016, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,786 posts, read 1,931,470 times
Reputation: 3554
Yes, Michigan posted a pathetic growth rate from 2010 to 2015. The real message here is that Michigan posted a growth rate from 2010-2015, despite having significant population loss from 2010-2012. Most of (okay, all of) the 2013-2015 growth occurred in the Metro Areas - Grand Rapids, Detroit, Lansing, K-Zoo, etc. - the rural parts of the state are still largely suffering.

We're off track here. All I'm trying to refute is your claim that when the outer ring suburbs do well the inner ring ones suffer. There is nothing to support that claim. The population growth of inner ring suburbs and the metro as a whole directly refute that claim.
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Chicago
939 posts, read 843,381 times
Reputation: 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
While I agree that the desire of millenials to live in cities is overstated, there is a much larger % of young professionals in their 20's and 30's that do want to live in the big cities than say 20 to 30 year ago. This is why cities like Philadelphia and Washington, DC, and Seattle, all cities which lost population for 3 to 4 decades, are gaining. There are many, many Michigan-native graduates of MSU and U of M who move to Chicago for work, and when they move there, they live in the city for the most part. Then when they have children, they either move to the Chicago suburbs, or move back to a suburban community in Michigan.

They wouldn't be building all of those apartments on the Riverfront, Downtown, and Midtown if there wasn't a demand.
I think there is a little from column A and a little from column B going on here. First, it cannot be overstated how skewed the media portrayal of Millenials is... the average 29 year old is a suburban dwelling college dropout living with a partner on a relatively decent salary of $35k . The transit obsessed urbane hipster of popular imagination is largely a reflection of media concentration... a 20something journalist who went to Northwestern and lives in New York making $80k likely only associates with other upper middle income 20somethings who live in New York or went to Northwestern, their viewpoints are totally skewed.

That being said, though, I do question how much Detroit can ever truly hope to contain the stream of U-M and MSU alums who flow to Chicago and the coasts after graduation. Those are people with options and while some of them probably would stay home if they felt they could, plenty more will follow their career goals or their perceived notions of what is exciting out of Michigan no matter how many luxury condos you put up in Corktown... I am one of three people from college friend group still in Michigan and the other two are here specifically because they don't want to live in big cities. I do think the most rose colored views of Detroit's future massively overstate the potential for revitalization, but I do think people here tend to be more realistic.
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Old 10-24-2016, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
27,759 posts, read 65,587,794 times
Reputation: 32943
Quote:
Originally Posted by brodie734 View Post
I think there is a little from column A and a little from column B going on here. First, it cannot be overstated how skewed the media portrayal of Millenials is... the average 29 year old is a suburban dwelling college dropout living with a partner on a relatively decent salary of $35k . The transit obsessed urbane hipster of popular imagination is largely a reflection of media concentration... a 20something journalist who went to Northwestern and lives in New York making $80k likely only associates with other upper middle income 20somethings who live in New York or went to Northwestern, their viewpoints are totally skewed.

That being said, though, I do question how much Detroit can ever truly hope to contain the stream of U-M and MSU alums who flow to Chicago and the coasts after graduation. Those are people with options and while some of them probably would stay home if they felt they could, plenty more will follow their career goals or their perceived notions of what is exciting out of Michigan no matter how many luxury condos you put up in Corktown... I am one of three people from college friend group still in Michigan and the other two are here specifically because they don't want to live in big cities. I do think the most rose colored views of Detroit's future massively overstate the potential for revitalization, but I do think people here tend to be more realistic.
You will never stop to outflow of college grads entirely. If it gets warmer, that may help. As Detroit gets more exciting and for however long it continues to be the place of greatest opportunity for someone just starting out, more will stay. I believe quite a lot of people run off to somewhere more exciting/warmer and then discover Nirvana really isn't, and then come back. Of my college friend group, roughly 80% left. of those more than 50% returned after a stint in California, Texas, Florida, Atlanta, Chicago or New York.

When you values change (usually as you being raising a family), Michigan starts looking a lot more appealing than those "exciting" places. there is a difference between "exciting" and appealing, or favorable for raising children with the values you want to convey.
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Old 10-24-2016, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,786 posts, read 1,931,470 times
Reputation: 3554
As a slightly-older Millennial (30), with a same-aged partner, growing family, and moderate income - I can assure you that a McMansion in the exurbs appeals to us about as much as an extended cable package, a Lincoln Town Car, and Hillary Clinton. We've probably started our family 5ish years earlier than most people of our generation will, but I think we're a better representation of what to expect from a Millennial family than the transient, urbane hipster or your 29 year old basement-dweller. Though I admittedly have no sources to back this up, unless you want to hang out?

Regarding the Millennial "Brain Drain" of the Late-00s, these are a couple of recent studies that largely refute the claim that this still exists:
Is "brain drain" a myth? Study suggests Metro Detroit leads nation in college grad retention | Michigan Radio
5 Surprising Cities Rapidly Attracting Millennial Job Seekers
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Old 10-24-2016, 04:40 PM
 
292 posts, read 204,394 times
Reputation: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Do you mean 2010?

Or do you mean a census estimate?

If you are relying on 2010 information for this area, it is pretty useless information. If relying on the census estimate or guess, it will depend on when the guess was made, who made it and what information they based that guess upon.
See for yourself, Google List of US states by population growth rate
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Old 10-24-2016, 04:59 PM
 
292 posts, read 204,394 times
Reputation: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie View Post
Yes, Michigan posted a pathetic growth rate from 2010 to 2015. The real message here is that Michigan posted a growth rate from 2010-2015, despite having significant population loss from 2010-2012. Most of (okay, all of) the 2013-2015 growth occurred in the Metro Areas - Grand Rapids, Detroit, Lansing, K-Zoo, etc. - the rural parts of the state are still largely suffering.

We're off track here. All I'm trying to refute is your claim that when the outer ring suburbs do well the inner ring ones suffer. There is nothing to support that claim. The population growth of inner ring suburbs and the metro as a whole directly refute that claim.

I stated that it is a game of musical chairs. Off the top of my head.

Blue Cross Blue Shield moved 3,000 employees from Southfield Mich to downtown

Campbell Ewald moved 1500 employees from Warren Mich to downtown

Title Source moved 1500 employees to downtown from Troy

Quicken Loans moved 3000 employees from Livonia, Mich to downtown

Compuware moved 1000's from Farmington Hills to downtown

Meridian came from the suburbs

General Motors moved thousands from Warren to Downtown

The Detroit Lions moved from Pontiac back to Detroit and left a mess in Pontiac now Detroit is going after the Pistons

All this to say, the suburbs grew at the expense of Detroit and now the favor is being returned
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