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Old 11-22-2016, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,852 posts, read 1,787,374 times
Reputation: 4526

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
I think I know close to 100 people who are planning to go. It will be hard to dissuade them, they are really worked up into a frenzy. If you ask them what they think it will accomplish, they look/talk at you like they want you dead. You make a good point about the risk though. I may be able to convince my daughter at least. She is concerned that it will be expensive and not accomplish anything anyway, so at least with her, it may not be hard.
As I said... there's so much political capital to be gained by provoking bloodshed on Inauguration Day, and the things are already so bad, I'd do everything in my power to keep her home.
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:50 AM
 
12,486 posts, read 7,583,753 times
Reputation: 4755
H
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
There are people who'd greatly benefit politically if a peaceful march turned violent or even deadly, this would play right into the media narrative of Trump and his supporters as a bigoted, violent bunch. Nothing better to draw sympathy to your cause than a few innocent martyrs.

I expect violent provocations on Inauguration Day. If anyone I knew was going to participate in that march, I'd try and persuade them to stay home.
I think the extreme left are the most disruptive element to the "system" as we know it. No doubt that the anarchist are gearing up for a battle and to leverage legitimate fears of the less radical segment of the political left.

Every action creates a reaction. Obama was a reaction to Bush. Obama could not have become president if not for Bush. Bush was HATED by the left. What better way to punish the right than to elect.....Obama? I am sure that antacids hit record sells in the South and rural areas when the Obama family moved into the White House. Take that!!!

Again, every action creating a reaction......Trump could have NEVER become the President, behaving the way he did, if not for Obama. This was the right punishing the left for the Obama Presidency.....by electing someone who had bigoted undertones to his campaign....to "take back the country and make it great again". Take it back from whom? When was this past era of greatness and what was that era like for say.....black people? Was it "greatest" for you when it was "bad" for me?

Now.....we are dealing with the reaction to the election of Trump......and its all going to come to a head in the next four years. The frequency of oscillation between action and reaction, between the forces of left and right.....will vibrate to an explosion in the next 4 years. People are crazy....there is no shame....there is nothing off limits.......any draconian move by Trump and the Republican controlled legislature....like trying to get tough on crime......its going to backfire.

Like MS313 said.....Detroit has been there and done that. People in the city of Detroit are tired of their city being looked upon as a joke and a basket case. In the past, Detroit was looked upon with respect in the AA communities throughout this country. Not so much now and people of the city want that respect back for the most part....and its not going to come back through riots.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; 11-22-2016 at 10:26 AM..
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Old 11-23-2016, 04:31 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,852 posts, read 1,787,374 times
Reputation: 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
H

I think the extreme left are the most disruptive element to the "system" as we know it. No doubt that the anarchist are gearing up for a battle and to leverage legitimate fears of the less radical segment of the political left.

Every action creates a reaction. Obama was a reaction to Bush. Obama could not have become president if not for Bush. Bush was HATED by the left. What better way to punish the right than to elect.....Obama? I am sure that antacids hit record sells in the South and rural areas when the Obama family moved into the White House. Take that!!!

Again, every action creating a reaction......Trump could have NEVER become the President, behaving the way he did, if not for Obama. This was the right punishing the left for the Obama Presidency.....by electing someone who had bigoted undertones to his campaign....to "take back the country and make it great again". Take it back from whom? When was this past era of greatness and what was that era like for say.....black people? Was it "greatest" for you when it was "bad" for me?

Now.....we are dealing with the reaction to the election of Trump......and its all going to come to a head in the next four years. The frequency of oscillation between action and reaction, between the forces of left and right.....will vibrate to an explosion in the next 4 years. People are crazy....there is no shame....there is nothing off limits.......any draconian move by Trump and the Republican controlled legislature....like trying to get tough on crime......its going to backfire.

Like MS313 said.....Detroit has been there and done that. People in the city of Detroit are tired of their city being looked upon as a joke and a basket case. In the past, Detroit was looked upon with respect in the AA communities throughout this country. Not so much now and people of the city want that respect back for the most part....and its not going to come back through riots.
Disagree.

Obama had the same message as Trump, just worded differently. The promise of change.

He lied.

So people elected Trump. Who may very well be lying too.

Both of them are the reaction to the decades of wage and job stagnation topped by the 2008 recession. People are no longer willing to perpetuate the status quo.

For most people. "Make America great again" means "Make America work again". Both as jobs, and the system plain working. It hasn't been working very well for the middle class for the past 40 years or so. As Slick Bioly used to say, "its economy stupid". Too bad his wife didn't listen.
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Old 11-23-2016, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,786 posts, read 1,929,903 times
Reputation: 3554
I really didn't feel like Obama was that extreme. The ACA was a disaster, even as a liberal I can admit that (a single-payer system would've been much better), but overall President Obama was a rather moderate, slightly-left-of-center, president. He accomplished a handful of good things and his additional support of Pell Grants made college feasible for me. While real wage growth stagnated his whole presidency, this is nothing new as it had more or less done the same since about 2000, and we have actually seen some growth in the last 1-2 years putting earnings above where they were in 2008. Bernie Sanders is an example of a far-left politician. Obama is quite conservative compared to him. Obama was elected though, because he spoke a strong populist message that rallied average-Joe Americans behind him. Unfortunately to me, Sanders was only able to appeal to eternal-optimists and 26 year olds. This is largely due to the corporate owned media purposefully ignoring him.

But on the other hand Trump isn't really the extremist that a lot of liberal outlets have made him out to be either. He's more centrist than most of the crazies that started out in the Republican primary (Cruz, Carson, Rubio, et.al) - He just happens to be a lot more mentally unstable too. He spoke a strong, but angry, populist message and the newsmedia, wanting to elect Clinton, gave it tons of coverage - thinking him a weak candidate and a source of cheap ratings. Unfortunately lots of people really drank the Koolaid.

Really what it comes down to is that the American public is generally quite stupid. I don't mean the people posting on an internet board, most people here are relatively well adjusted to the world and probably active in their community. I would estimate that the majority of people reading this comment cringed at the idea of a Clinton vs. Trump race, but the vast majority of Americans aren't the types to discuss issues like this in a relatively professional online forum. Most of them believe whatever rhetoric CNN or Fox News tells them and vote based on that.

Sorry, this was kind of a rant - but I guess what I'm saying is Obama and Trump didn't get elected as reactions. They got elected because they had strong populist messages that our news media spread like wildfire. Your average person votes based on that - if the candidate has a strong populist message and the news picks it up, they don't give two craps about what the candidate actually supports and what they will accomplish.
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Old 11-23-2016, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,799,933 times
Reputation: 2624
What did he lie about? He TRIED to do alot of things he talking about. And you can't say that Michigan hasn't changed from 08/09 to 2016. Our unemployment rate is cut by more than half for starters (because companies are hiring). Wages in MI did grow from 2009, at least from what I seen. The housing market has gotten much better, ect.

During Obama's reelection, Mitt Romney said he could get the unemployment rate down to about 6% by the end of 2016. Obama surpassed that number by the end of 2014 way ahead of Romney's schedule.
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Old 12-31-2016, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
13,041 posts, read 8,047,272 times
Reputation: 16991
Detroit is the ultimate example of an economically transient city. The auto industry grew out of the convergence of the manufacture of coal- and wood-fired stoves, carriages, and furniture -- all of which involved skills transferable to the manufacture of automobiles. And the consolidation and assembly of all these parts gave rise to the discipline now referred to as logistics.

Furthermore, the same convergence led to the proliferation of small independent machine shops all over southern Michigan, the products of which are adaptable to a lot more than automotive end-uses, and which provide an independent living for the founders and owners (usually a family), and competitive salaries and wages to managers and employees. (The UAW usually isn't invited to the party, however).

As with any economically-driven mass migration, the uprooting of large numbers of people -- first from the upstate agricultural and lumbering areas, then from the hollows of Appalachia, and the agrarian South in successive waves, (not to mention Europeans of every nationality, and the largest Middle Eastern enclave in all of North America) produces casualties, well-documented in Robert Conat's work American Odyssey. But the facts remain: (1) the underpinning safety net is much stronger than was once the case, and (2) the ghettoes to which large numbers of minorities were confined with the complicity of politicians are not the prisons without walls they were a half-century ago.

The old Detroit simply burned itself out; The new Metro Detroit, with an anchor in Ann Arbor, and a freer, more open economy, is establishing itself. The process will continue.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 12-31-2016 at 11:25 PM..
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