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Old 12-02-2016, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
27,749 posts, read 65,567,547 times
Reputation: 32915

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
And I would say that is wrong. Everyone I talk to in MidTown know it is the "white guy" Duggan who runs the city, finally.

MidTown has come back to life. The area between I-94 on the North, to I-75 on the south and I-375 on the east and the Lodge on the West is ALIVE. And parts of Downtown is doing better.

The other 99.9% of Detroit is just as dead as it ever was..
I guess we know pretty different people. Most of the people I know who live downtown and midtown are young, professional, and most are white. Very few of them know anything at all about the City government and do not care. They like being able to pop over to a sports-game, bar, DIA, theater performance, or event within a few blocks of their home and then just walk a little bit and go to bed when they get tired (or drunk). They like having a dozen of two dozen choices for dinner and a beer or glass of wine int he evening all withing walking distance. They like the fact that there is almost always a sizable crowd of people their age in the various places they go. They like being minutes from work. They like having front row seats to crowded events like the Christmas tree lighting, Jazz festival, fireworks, etc. They do not give a hoot about the City government or who runs it. Beyond the fact the City is broke and not likely to provide much in the way of services, most cannot name anything the City does or who the mayor or council members are. A few might know the City still had a farrier on staff because that was in the newspaper, but realistically, only a few would even look at that article. They can however tell you who serves the best microbrew and which nights are Clothing optional at Detroit City Club.

This is pretty much true of the young professionals in Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor, Royal Oak etc. Unless they have an interest in getting into politics, they do not much care who the local politicians are or what they do.

The core of a City IS the city. The outlying neighborhoods, particularly the ones out of range of the City core, are really no different than the suburb neighborhoods on the other side of the street, only with a Detroit Address. They may be in worse shape as a result of being within the City limits, but they are not significantly different as to whether the City has come back to life. The fact is the City does not need the outlying neighborhoods in order to come back to life. IN the case of Detroit, the City would be better off it it could downsize and remove some outlying areas. They could be ceded to the adjoining suburbs without having any negative impact on the City. So from the point of view of whether the City is alive, the outlying neighborhoods are basically irrelevant. The focal point of the City is alive, and that is what it takes to attract people back into the city. That is what makes the City appealing as a place to live in or near. However, fact some outlying neighborhoods continue to delay has little to do with whether the core of the city has come back to life. If the city core is appealing, the City is appealing, whether or not the Von Stuben neighborhood is nice or awful really has no bearing on that, except tot he residents of Von Stuben.

That is not to say the outlying neighborhoods do not need/deserve attention or the people there are not important. However that is not what we are discussing. If the city core is alive and active, what is happening in a neighborhood eight miles away (or whatever the distance is) is not really relevant to that issue. Many lively cities are surrounded by decaying outlying neighborhoods. Even new York, at least for a time (not sure about today).

(I just randomly chose Von Stuben as a random outlying neighborhood, not picking on it, know nothing about it other than it is far from the City core).
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,799,933 times
Reputation: 2624
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
And I would say that is wrong. Everyone I talk to in MidTown know it is the "white guy" Duggan who runs the city, finally.

MidTown has come back to life. The area between I-94 on the North, to I-75 on the south and I-375 on the east and the Lodge on the West is ALIVE. And parts of Downtown is doing better.

The other 99.9% of Detroit is just as dead as it ever was..
Most of the other parts of Detroit (which is less than 99% more like 90%) is less vibrant for sure but not "dead" at all. The population density in most Detroit neighborhoods is actually higher than most major cities in America. Which is why the car and foot traffic in most Detroit neighborhoods is about the same as neighborhoods in Atlanta, STL, Phoenix, Tampa, Indianapolis, ect. And those cities aren't "dead" either.

Also you can't generalize the rest of Detroit like they are all the same. They are very different.
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:07 AM
 
12,486 posts, read 7,585,778 times
Reputation: 4755
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkeith View Post
I was suspecting the same thing; guilt. Racism certainly isn't a thing of the past, and most people accept this. However human nature has always tormented us with guilt. You lived here, left here, and now notice that the city is becoming somewhat reinvigorated. It bugs you, even though you no longer live in this state! Come back and help make it better, if it bothers you so much, and stop looking for excuses! It's unusual to harp over a community where you no longer live. You don't even keep to the premise that you initially presented when this re-configured thread was started. You're grasping at straws, and seem to become apoplectic and hysterical when someone disagrees with one of your presentations of "proof" that you are right. Guilt does that. Other phenomena can do that too, but I won't get into health issues here.
Lol....keep your day jobs and venture into the realm of palm reading, astrology or psychology. No guilt what so ever. I am glad that Michigan is coming back but if anything I am looking at how I could profit financially. Really, I have always entertained the idea of moving back to the state to start a business. That is still a thought that I entertain.....but every time I go back......it depresses me. Detroit and Grand Rapids just triggers bad memories for me when I go back to my old neighborhoods......there is no comeback or revitalization for the people there. I know things have changed a lot....but my memories of Michigan was that it was a very racist place.

I have to laugh at your chastising of me. Have you ever chastised "white flight"? What you are preaching to me should have been said to the hundreds of thousands of white folks who fled the inner cities.....promoting the collapse of neighborhoods and cities. Kind of Ironic that some of you are not trying to preach to me about staying or coming back and making a difference.....lol.

I am sorry......your advise just kind of rings hollow.
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:10 AM
 
12,486 posts, read 7,585,778 times
Reputation: 4755
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
Most of the other parts of Detroit (which is less than 99% more like 90%) is less vibrant for sure but not "dead" at all. The population density in most Detroit neighborhoods is actually higher than most major cities in America. Which is why the car and foot traffic in most Detroit neighborhoods is about the same as neighborhoods in Atlanta, STL, Phoenix, Tampa, Indianapolis, ect. And those cities aren't "dead" either.

Also you can't generalize the rest of Detroit like they are all the same. They are very different.

I caught that too.....but I just chose to not bother it with a response at that time. There are many parts of Detroit away from Downtown that would be considered vibrant in a lot of other cities. To be sure, there are literally many gutted neighborhoods, which means that people have to concentrate in more intact neighborhoods and as a result their is a lot of human activity going on.
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
1,277 posts, read 1,071,149 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Lol....keep your day jobs and venture into the realm of palm reading, astrology or psychology. No guilt what so ever. I am glad that Michigan is coming back but if anything I am looking at how I could profit financially. Really, I have always entertained the idea of moving back to the state to start a business. That is still a thought that I entertain.....but every time I go back......it depresses me. Detroit and Grand Rapids just triggers bad memories for me when I go back to my old neighborhoods......there is no comeback or revitalization for the people there. I know things have changed a lot....but my memories of Michigan was that it was a very racist place.

I have to laugh at your chastising of me. Have you ever chastised "white flight"? What you are preaching to me should have been said to the hundreds of thousands of white folks who fled the inner cities.....promoting the collapse of neighborhoods and cities. Kind of Ironic that some of you are not trying to preach to me about staying or coming back and making a difference.....lol.

I am sorry......your advise just kind of rings hollow.

Of course it does, and I hear that reasoning a lot. It's frightening to move back to a state and start a new business. Easier to look for reasons why you shouldn't. Still wondering why you continue to return to the Michigan forums, as you have given up on the area.
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:33 AM
 
1,648 posts, read 2,742,410 times
Reputation: 1438
"I guess we know pretty different people. Most of the people I know who live downtown and midtown are young, professional, and most are white. Very few of them know anything at all about the City government and do not care. They like being able to pop over to a sports-game, bar, DIA, theater performance, or event within a few blocks of their home and then just walk a little bit and go to bed when they get tired (or drunk). They like having a dozen of two dozen choices for dinner and a beer or glass of wine int he evening all withing walking distance. They like the fact that there is almost always a sizable crowd of people their age in the various places they go. They like being minutes from work. They like having front row seats to crowded events like the Christmas tree lighting, Jazz festival, fireworks, etc. They do not give a hoot about the City government or who runs it. Beyond the fact the City is broke and not likely to provide much in the way of services, most cannot name anything the City does or who the mayor or council members are. A few might know the City still had a farrier on staff because that was in the newspaper, but realistically, only a few would even look at that article. They can however tell you who serves the best microbrew and which nights are Clothing optional at Detroit City Club. "


This sums up me - I'm a city resident. I couldn't tell you any member on City Council other than Mayor Duggan. I couldn't tell you any member on the school board. I choose to live downtown, not because I'm interested in "saving the city" or bringing it back or whatever the hipster du jour narrative is - for me it's all about convenience. I used to live in Royal Oak. Living downtown I can avoid the I75 parking lot during rush hour, go to any bar/restaurant I want, never have to worry about drinking/driving due to Uber. It's a convenience of lifestyle.
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:34 AM
 
12,486 posts, read 7,585,778 times
Reputation: 4755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
I guess we know pretty different people. Most of the people I know who live downtown and midtown are young, professional, and most are white. Very few of them know anything at all about the City government and do not care. They like being able to pop over to a sports-game, bar, DIA, theater performance, or event within a few blocks of their home and then just walk a little bit and go to bed when they get tired (or drunk). They like having a dozen of two dozen choices for dinner and a beer or glass of wine int he evening all withing walking distance. They like the fact that there is almost always a sizable crowd of people their age in the various places they go. They like being minutes from work. They like having front row seats to crowded events like the Christmas tree lighting, Jazz festival, fireworks, etc. They do not give a hoot about the City government or who runs it. Beyond the fact the City is broke and not likely to provide much in the way of services, most cannot name anything the City does or who the mayor or council members are. A few might know the City still had a farrier on staff because that was in the newspaper, but realistically, only a few would even look at that article. They can however tell you who serves the best microbrew and which nights are Clothing optional at Detroit City Club.

This is pretty much true of the young professionals in Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor, Royal Oak etc. Unless they have an interest in getting into politics, they do not much care who the local politicians are or what they do.

The core of a City IS the city. The outlying neighborhoods, particularly the ones out of range of the City core, are really no different than the suburb neighborhoods on the other side of the street, only with a Detroit Address. They may be in worse shape as a result of being within the City limits, but they are not significantly different as to whether the City has come back to life. The fact is the City does not need the outlying neighborhoods in order to come back to life. IN the case of Detroit, the City would be better off it it could downsize and remove some outlying areas. They could be ceded to the adjoining suburbs without having any negative impact on the City. So from the point of view of whether the City is alive, the outlying neighborhoods are basically irrelevant. The focal point of the City is alive, and that is what it takes to attract people back into the city. That is what makes the City appealing as a place to live in or near. However, fact some outlying neighborhoods continue to delay has little to do with whether the core of the city has come back to life. If the city core is appealing, the City is appealing, whether or not the Von Stuben neighborhood is nice or awful really has no bearing on that, except tot he residents of Von Stuben.

That is not to say the outlying neighborhoods do not need/deserve attention or the people there are not important. However that is not what we are discussing. If the city core is alive and active, what is happening in a neighborhood eight miles away (or whatever the distance is) is not really relevant to that issue. Many lively cities are surrounded by decaying outlying neighborhoods. Even new York, at least for a time (not sure about today).

(I just randomly chose Von Stuben as a random outlying neighborhood, not picking on it, know nothing about it other than it is far from the City core).
Are you speaking for them? How about asking them who the mayor and report back. All I am getting thus far is that you THINK this is what they are thinking, without every really having a conversation where they indicated that they know nothing about the politics and personalities of the city government. The person who you are responding to sounded like he had actual conversations where the race of the mayor was "noted". You cannot assume that just because people are not talking about it, however, that it is not of note or of subconscious value to them.
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:43 AM
 
12,486 posts, read 7,585,778 times
Reputation: 4755
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkeith View Post
Of course it does, and I hear that reasoning a lot. It's frightening to move back to a state and start a new business. Easier to look for reasons why you shouldn't. Still wondering why you continue to return to the Michigan forums, as you have given up on the area.

No....I am not frightened.....I just don't want to be depressed. I was depressed living in Michigan and it depressed me when I return to Michigan. All the COMEBACK looks racially out of balance. That is depressing to me. It just reminds me that the more things change....the more the remain the same.

How do you profit or loss from my motive of coming to the Michigan forum? How is my motive of coming to this forum even Germain? This is where I AM FROM. I was born and raised in Michigan. I lived in the state 30 years....but not continuously. Most of my family still lives there. Yet, you wonder why I visit the forum. No. You don't LIKE that I visit the forum and burst bubble.
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
27,749 posts, read 65,567,547 times
Reputation: 32915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Are you speaking for them? How about asking them who the mayor and report back. All I am getting thus far is that you THINK this is what they are thinking, without every really having a conversation where they indicated that they know nothing about the politics and personalities of the city government. The person who you are responding to sounded like he had actual conversations where the race of the mayor was "noted". You cannot assume that just because people are not talking about it, however, that it is not of note or of subconscious value to them.
That is because you are making assumptions from nothing.

Yes, of course I have spoken with them, particularly as the election approached. Answer - not really interested/don't know.

Did you want quotes from conversations? Video?

How about a list of names of people who have made it clear they have no idea and do not care whom is involved in City government or what they are doing?
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Old 12-02-2016, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
1,277 posts, read 1,071,149 times
Reputation: 1544
Got no bubble, just truly puzzled. I lived in another state for 40 years. I have no interest in their forums. People tend to approach issues from different angles, and I just like to understand motivations. I like people. I dislike their pain, as I am an empathetic person. I find it pretty easy to look at a problem from different points of view, too. It's a skill, somewhat learned and somewhat innate. I do dislike hostility and find it counter-productive.
Really, I am sorry that the cities here depress you so much. Not sure what you are trying to achieve when you post. I don't know if most people care, most just respond to the general context.
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