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Old 12-13-2016, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Here.
14,538 posts, read 13,262,767 times
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We all complain about how bad the roads are. Maybe they wouldn't be so bad if the money was spent improving existing roads instead of subsidizing new ones for those rich enough to build McMansions on the fringe of town. Same could be said about the water and sewer systems.

I support the use of uban boundaries, like Ann Arbor has. Prevent building beyond the existing developed areas. Once all existing homes are occupied, all empty lots are developed, and property values are rising, we would allow a limited number of new development. //www.city-data.com/forum/detro...-michigan.html Also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_growth_boundary

Last edited by Retroit; 12-13-2016 at 11:21 AM..
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Old 12-13-2016, 11:19 AM
 
977 posts, read 1,114,783 times
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I'd argue that the urban boundary and high property values in Ann Arbor proper have in part contributed to the sprawl in South Lyon, Dexter, Saline.

I can't figure out exactly what is driving the sprawl in some of the areas - if there is true pent-up demand or its the real estate/home-builders industrial military complex that is feeding off of itself.

The US-23 corridor has essentially created its own metropolitan area in itself.
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Old 12-13-2016, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Here.
14,538 posts, read 13,262,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTWflyer View Post
I'd argue that the urban boundary and high property values in Ann Arbor proper have in part contributed to the sprawl in South Lyon, Dexter, Saline.

I can't figure out exactly what is driving the sprawl in some of the areas - if there is true pent-up demand or its the real estate/home-builders industrial military complex that is feeding off of itself.

The US-23 corridor has essentially created its own metropolitan area in itself.
It has to be wide enough to prevent people from moving just outside of it. Ann Arbor's is just a few miles wide at some points, not enough to prevent people from doing so. I would estimate it would have to be 20 miles wide to discourage this. It should be for the entire metropolitan area (Detroit, Ann Arbor, Pontiac, etc.).
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Old 12-13-2016, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Chicago
934 posts, read 842,316 times
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Ann Arbor is expensive and most of the housing stock is old. Dexter offers more land and Saline offers newer, bigger houses for the cost. It's not hard to figure out what is driving that market, there is really nothing AA zoning can do about it.
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Old 12-13-2016, 01:08 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,813,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
I have watched this for decades. The masses "discover" a cute small town just outside of the current ring of suburbia. Rural living with a cute homey downtown nearby? Who doesn't want that.? They start moving there in droves. Prices go up, so they want condos. Then they want Starbucks. They move up at work and want subdivisions of ever bigger homes, preferably on a golf course where the woods used to be. They do not want to have to drive 15 miles for a health club so the little grocery becomes a health club. then they need a Kroger or Meijer, then a wall-mart pops up nearby and the little mom N pop places go out of business, or they get replaced with high end places where a hamburger costs $18. Of course you need to have a McDonalds or subway in town for a quick meal. Then of course you need an Auto Zone, some extra banks t finance all that growth, wider roads, more stop lights, more parking lots, maybe a Chucky Cheese . . .

Pretty soon the area is all built out with subdivisions and the quaint little downtown is no longer quaint. Suddenly the next town out catches attention and the whole process begins again.

It is like an unstoppable wave. Framington, Novi, Northville, Lyon Twp.South Lyon, Brighton. After they destroy Brighton and look around and realize that for some puzzling reason it is no longer cute/quaint/appealing - Fowlerville? Milford? In another direction it is out to Saline and Ypsi township. Can it go further? After they finish off Saline and Plymouth, will Tecumseh, Dexter and Chelsea be next? Pinkney?

This process has bee radiating out from Detroit for ages. New freeways and higher speed limits make further and further out places seem practical. When I grew up in Northville/Southlyon, both places were cute, quaint and rural. The biggest store in South Lyon was E & R Saddlery (or Maybe Showermans IGA). At martins hardware, you told them what you wanted, and they went and got it for you. South Lyon now has more strip malls/stores and fast food than quaint remains of he downtown. Martins Hardware is now a typical ACE or ACO hardware strip store where you park out front and browse the aisles. (Sure it is cooler than Home Depot, but it is nowhere near what it was). Northville was absolutely awesome before it got Yuppified. Now it is kind of Meh. Some quaintness/small town remains, but much was torn down and replaced with garbage (some of which is now empty or mostly empty because it never had any appeal beyond being "new". Still Northville is nicer than many places in the area, but a shadow of what it was/could have become.

Maybe it will fizzle in its journey West and just continue radiating North from Detroit instead, There are a lot of quaint places in that direction that have not yet been ruined. It could go south too - Flat Rock, Wyandotte, Gibraltar, even Monroe is probably within range. Huron township is ripe for McMansioning - they have good schools and rural living, lets fill it up with subdivisions because that will make it nicer to live there.

It is a sham,e but there is little point in grousing about it. It is not gong to be changed and apparently cannot be stopped.
Kalamazoo! Moline! Omaha! .... Reno?

I'm only half joking, who knows what Elon Musk and his vacuum hose transpo system might lead to if it actually works ...
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Old 12-13-2016, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Chicago
934 posts, read 842,316 times
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I look forward to the day when my kids can get in on that free K-zoo college tuition while my wife and I commute to Detroit and Chicago respectively via tube.
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Old 12-13-2016, 04:09 PM
 
49 posts, read 44,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers View Post
Yes. Magna, Harman and Nissan are just a few large automotive companies located in the western burbs. Lots of these employees live in Novi/Lyon/Brighton.

A lot of people in the far western suburbs have jobs in Ann Arbor as well.

Don't forget GM in Milford.

I can't believe Brighton didn't blow up sooner. Super easy access to Flint-Lansing-Ann Arbor-Oakland County-General Motors compound.
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Old 12-14-2016, 06:11 PM
 
977 posts, read 1,114,783 times
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Part of the reason was other than the Ford-Wixom plant and the GM Proving grounds there wasn't a whole lot west of I-275/I-696 about 15-20 years ago.

Canton was the de-facto bedroom community for reasonably priced new homes, Northville and Novi were where you went for newer "upscale" pricer homes. Now in 2016, Novi and Canton are mostly built-out, so South Lyon is the next frontier. Plus commericial and industrial properties have built-up along the I-96 corridor most of the way through Novi and South Lyon.

I wonder how the M-14 corridor has managed to avoid massive sprawl and build-out much past Sheldon Rd out to US-23.
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Old 12-15-2016, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,786 posts, read 1,929,903 times
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According to a Free Press article on Jim Ellison (Mayor of Royal Oak, moving onto state legislature) this morning,

"Brushing off the barbs of critics, the largely pro-development Ellison helped Royal Oak ... And he watched it unleash, since the Great Recession, a run of residential construction virtually unmatched by any other metro Detroit community on a new-housing-per-capita basis in 2013-15 (2016 figures were incomplete)"

And I believe anyone who has driven around the neighborhoods near the Central Business District of Royal Oak would believe this - and the new houses and condos going in are long-term family homes. Many older nearby towns (Birmingham, Berkley, Huntington Woods.. even Clawson and Ferndale to a lesser extent) are experiencing similar redevelopment trends, so I wouldn't be too fixated on this idea that development and growth is only happening at the fringes. Inner-ring redevelopment will help drive Metro Detroit growth as long, as the economy stays strong. Again, while there will always be people who want more space and don't mind the long commutes, living in semi-urban areas is desirable again, for many.
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Old 12-15-2016, 09:17 AM
 
2,173 posts, read 2,815,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie View Post
According to a Free Press article on Jim Ellison (Mayor of Royal Oak, moving onto state legislature) this morning,

"Brushing off the barbs of critics, the largely pro-development Ellison helped Royal Oak ... And he watched it unleash, since the Great Recession, a run of residential construction virtually unmatched by any other metro Detroit community on a new-housing-per-capita basis in 2013-15 (2016 figures were incomplete)"

And I believe anyone who has driven around the neighborhoods near the Central Business District of Royal Oak would believe this - and the new houses and condos going in are long-term family homes. Many older nearby towns (Birmingham, Berkley, Huntington Woods.. even Clawson and Ferndale to a lesser extent) are experiencing similar redevelopment trends, so I wouldn't be too fixated on this idea that development and growth is only happening at the fringes. Inner-ring redevelopment will help drive Metro Detroit growth as long, as the economy stays strong. Again, while there will always be people who want more space and don't mind the long commutes, living in semi-urban areas is desirable again, for many.
I don't consider Royal Oak to be a typical inner-ring suburb given its unique characteristics and sustained popularity among young professionals. I would be more interested in development trends in places like Livonia, Warren and Dearborn.
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