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Old 12-20-2016, 03:23 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,093 posts, read 24,771,258 times
Reputation: 7812

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Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
More hyperbole from this gentleman. Are you saying that the Canton-Livonia-Plymouth-Northville (I-275) corridor doesn't have "stuff" to go to? Ford Road in Canton has almost every chain imaginable. Laurel Park Place Mall and its environs; Westland Mall and the vast commercial area around it; downtown Plymouth; downtown Northville

For recreation, you have Hines Drive, Maybury State Park, Lower Huron MetroPark; not as good as your area though, admittedly.

Folks, this is the same guy who challenged someone to walk in Midtown at 10 pm at night, as if that was akin to an American walking around Helmund province in Afghanistan. That challenge was so puzzling, especially coming from someone who has working in Midtown for years.
More defensiveness from a shadow. What did I say about Livonia and Canton? They are starting to feel the effects..Livonia just closed TWO schools and Canton is such a sprawl who wants to be there on Ford Road?

Westland Mall is DOA..Laurael Park is dying...and do you really want to drive from Canton to Lower Huron Metro Park?

How many people drive from Down River to Plymouth to shop?

People who graduate from Taylor schools should consider a READING COMPREHENSION program before they whine for more cheese.

I said I do not have o DRIVE for hours to get to a PARK, go boating all day and my taxed are 60% LESS for twice the home price...

And in regards to Midtown, I believe I said lets take a walk EAST of Brush, north of GRAND, SOUTH of Comerica and west of the LODGE..MIDTOWN is the safest place in DETROIT--for now and many streets off Woodard..


As for Canton feeling the effects, the fact that Canton is GROWING at the rate is is is proof it is starting to feel the effects--MORE PEOPLE, LESS RESOURCES and the services being pushed to heir limits.

All I said was the things we do every week are CLOSER to us here than they were in Wayne County and that is why my 110 mile commute is worth it and suddenly all that nasty Wayne Country insecurities come flowing out..Guess my point has been made?
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Old 12-20-2016, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,786 posts, read 1,931,470 times
Reputation: 3554
Wow zthatzmanz28, that was quite the rant, if I've ever seen one.

I think it's safe to say that there still are, and always will be, people who don't want to live or associate with "those" people. They'd rather be with their own, even if that means spending two hours a day in a car listening to audiobooks. That's okay, nothing will change that, I simply have to accept that, but it doesn't impact how I feel about Wayne County.

As a relative outsider with nothing to gain or lose on internet stranger's opinions of Wayne County, I'll admit it's not the most desirable place in the metro. Its pension system is a disaster and that does drive taxes up. Many cities within Wayne County are also experiencing similar issues, causing people to leave due to taxes, causing the pensions to be further underfunded and requireing raising taxes, causing people to... you get the point... (basically, pensions are unsustainable and harming many states, counties, cities, etc. - a great example being Wayne County), but beyond that, pretty much everything that you said was exurban fan-fiction, at best, and outright hyperbole and lies at worst.

So Livonia closed two schools? Do you think this means that Livonia is a hollowing out husk? Or do you think it means demographic trends nationally have trended toward families having 1, 2, or zero kids, instead of 4-6 kids they had 40 years ago, while charters have popped up all over? Westland Mall is dull because malls are dull, it is no reflection on the success of Livonia as a city. Simply that people would rather shop in Midtown, Downtown Detroit, Northville, Plymouth, Wyandotte, etc. I did go west of Lodge this weekend. It was quite the thriving little enclave among the vacant land. I had to park two blocks away from my friend's apartment because so many people were there. I also saw, get this, construction. It was night, and do you know how many times my wife and I got mugged walking from out car to my friend's apartment? Zero. We also got mugged zero times on the way back. The lights were pretty bright though, and some people said hi. They seemed nice. Early 20-somethings, educated, well dressed - the typical people you find just outside of Midtown.

Face it, you're only justifying your preconceived notions of Detroit and Wayne County, based on decades old observations, and completely ignoring what it is today, because you don't like what it is. You want to make Wayne County "great" again
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Old 12-20-2016, 04:47 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,293,709 times
Reputation: 1864
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
More defensiveness from a shadow. What did I say about Livonia and Canton? They are starting to feel the effects..Livonia just closed TWO schools and Canton is such a sprawl who wants to be there on Ford Road?

Westland Mall is DOA..Laurael Park is dying...and do you really want to drive from Canton to Lower Huron Metro Park?

How many people drive from Down River to Plymouth to shop?

People who graduate from Taylor schools should consider a READING COMPREHENSION program before they whine for more cheese.

I said I do not have o DRIVE for hours to get to a PARK, go boating all day and my taxed are 60% LESS for twice the home price...

And in regards to Midtown, I believe I said lets take a walk EAST of Brush, north of GRAND, SOUTH of Comerica and west of the LODGE..MIDTOWN is the safest place in DETROIT--for now and many streets off Woodard..


As for Canton feeling the effects, the fact that Canton is GROWING at the rate is is is proof it is starting to feel the effects--MORE PEOPLE, LESS RESOURCES and the services being pushed to heir limits.

All I said was the things we do every week are CLOSER to us here than they were in Wayne County and that is why my 110 mile commute is worth it and suddenly all that nasty Wayne Country insecurities come flowing out..Guess my point has been made?
-You said you had to drive hours to get to "stuff", so I provided a section of Wayne County, the I-275 corridor, in which you could live, that has a ton of "stuff" like Dave & Busters, IKEA, etc. I wasn't attempting to sell that people from Downriver can go to Plymouth.

-A lookup on Google Maps, shows in rush hour traffic, the drive from the middle of Canton to Lower Huron Park is 22 minutes.

-It is wonderful that you have found a fulfilling life in Livingston County. And yes the property taxes are much lower. But some of the things you said about Wayne County are inaccurate and just bizarre such as

Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
I am commuting 55 miles one way from Brighton to the DMC / Midtown. We made this decision simply to avoid Wayne County and because there was next to nothing we could afford in Oakland County that did not look or feel like Wayne County.
Wayne County is a huge county that spans 673 square miles and contains about 1.8 million people. It doesn't have one homogeneous look or feel, it varies widely in look and feel from the Grosse Pointes (old money inner suburbs on lake), to Dearborn (large inner ring suburb with a significant minority population) to Wyandotte (small town, water access), to Belleville (country) to Northville (McMansions). So when you say "there was next to nothing we could afford in Oakland County that did not look or feel like Wayne County" - What does that even mean? What particular look or feel were you trying to avoid - that you associate with Wayne County?

-And I didn't go to Taylor Schools, I went to mediocre Southfield Schools and I earned a bachelor's and a master's degree.

-And concerning Midtown you stated in July on page 9 of the "Boy was I a sucker..." thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
Let's get together and take a walk through mid-town after 10:00 P.M.? Or maybe we can drive up and down Woodward and park your new car on Seldon or maybe Willis and see what happens after 2-3 hours?

It is not "hate" to tell the truth. I have been in and out of Detroit since I could drive. I have lived there and I still work there near the DMC.

It has improved, but it is not safer, cleaner or more desirable than before.
Many people I know who moved into these artsy lofts and apartments still have suburban addresses on their driver's license to avoid the huge insurance bill. I have even met people who live in these nice places and they have not paid Detroit city taxes in 3-5 years that they have lived in Detroit because they claim you only pay city tax if you work in the city...LOL

Most all the millennials go the the burbs for an evening out and most still shop in the burbs because there is either no where to shop, or it is not a great idea to go into Forman Mills on Woodward or the one on Conner and flash cash or a platinum American Express card in public.

So while it is a great suburban dream to become part of the resurrection, it is definitely not all laughs and giggles.
It seems like you're backtracking on Midtown.
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Old 12-20-2016, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
27,759 posts, read 65,587,794 times
Reputation: 32943
My family in Plymouth, Northville, Livonia - North Livonia is particularly nice, and us in Grosse Ile, as well as friends in Trenton, Riverview, Flat Rock, Huron Township, and Woodhaven do not seem to have any issues with the County and live no differently than friends and family in Oakland County. The Wayne county portions of Northville do not seem any different than the Oakland County parts.

Given Detroit is in Wayne County, there are likely more jobs in Wayne County then Oakland. At least white collar jobs. Maybe not, but there is a huge concentration of businesses all stacked up on top of each other in Detroit.

It does not surprise me that you had problems in Taylor. However if you want to use Taylor as an example of Wayne County, compare it to something comparable in Oakland County (Say Pontiac)

I thought there was something particular about Wayne County that was a problem but I am not seeing anything specific to Wayne County. Badly managed certainly. But that does nto really impact residents much and certainly does not create a basis for people to commute and extra fifty miles a day.

My wife used to work for the county, and they are awful to work for, but that is in part because of the union and in part because of the management however, that has nothing to do with living in the county. I would agree Wayne County is probably less bang for your tax buck than Oakland County, but the county does not really do a lot that impacts me. I certainly would not choose where to live based on which county it is in, especially if it meant a longer commute.


As for stuff: Woodhaven and Southgate have plenty of stuff marts of various kinds. I have not had to leave the area for any stuff buying opportunities that are missing. Sports and Culture are heavily available in Detroit and Dearborn as are most of Michigan better restaurants and bars. I would have to leave Wayne County if I wanted to wait in line at a Cheesecake Factory for two hours. Otherwise everything is right here.

I cannot recall having left Wayne County for shopping in the past four years at least. Dining sometimes, but usually because we are going to dinner with someone from Ann Arbor or South Lyon, or attending a charity/political fundraiser.

Drive two hours for boating? Are you kidding? Half of Wayne County is on the waterfront.

BTW - For parks you forgot Erie Metropark, Willow Metropark, Oakwoods Metropark, Belle Isle State Park, Elizabeth Park (and awesome county park - yes that would be WAYNE county park), Crosswinds march, Lower Huron Metropark, even Hertigae Park in yucky old Taylor is kind of neat. I think the earlier poster picked up the Western Wayne County parks.

Oh then of course there is Greenfield Village, a world wide destination.

Oh and we all forgot those 5 crummy little cities that begin with "Grosse Pointe" are all in Wayne County too.

I guess with only 8 super awesome communities, and 14 reasonably nice communities (that i can think of) plus downtown and midtown Detroit where pretty much all of the professional sports, culture (theaters, music venues, recognized music venue clubs, museums) are located - Wayne County is just plain awful and has nothing to offer. (You just keep on thinking Peabody, because that is what you do best)

I cna understand that Livingston County is so much superior that it is worth the extra commute time, after all it has - - - Chickens. That is where i go when I want to buy chickens. Oh and hay. I do make the drive out to Livingston county once evrery couple of years when I need chickens or hay.

Last edited by Coldjensens; 12-20-2016 at 05:52 PM..
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:50 PM
 
60,450 posts, read 85,521,430 times
Reputation: 13272
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
What is Canton starting to feel the effects of when it has continued to grow every census?

And what do you mean outsiders? most communities are in Wayne Co have a crime rate at national average or safer. According to city-data Detroit, Harper Woods, Inkster, and Ecorse, are the only cities in Wayne Co with a crime rate above national average. There are no data for townships. Everywhere else is either at national average or lower.
Is Harper Woods due having a shopping center in the city or is it a mix? I ask because places with a relatively high concentration of shopping for its size may show a high crime rate, while the factor of people coming from outside of that city isn't considered in regards to the crime rate.
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Old 12-21-2016, 06:41 AM
 
1,648 posts, read 2,743,618 times
Reputation: 1438
Harper Woods borders Detroit so as blacks moved out of Detroit they moved into Harper Woods and the whites moved farther out. It went from predominately white in the 80's to majority non white now.
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Old 12-21-2016, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
27,759 posts, read 65,587,794 times
Reputation: 32943
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Is Harper Woods due having a shopping center in the city or is it a mix? I ask because places with a relatively high concentration of shopping for its size may show a high crime rate, while the factor of people coming from outside of that city isn't considered in regards to the crime rate.
This does come up in cities with big malls. Every incident of shoplifting and car break ins show up as a theft crime. By the statistics, you would not want to live in that crime ridden city, but the reality is, you really do not care how much shoplifting goes on at the big mall, it has no impact on your life and the City may otherwise have a very low crime rate. Novi's crime statistics are undoubtedly skewed by this.
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Old 12-21-2016, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Chicago
939 posts, read 843,381 times
Reputation: 1102
Anyone denying that Livonia is in decline has not been paying attention to Livonia.
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Old 12-21-2016, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,802,456 times
Reputation: 2624
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Is Harper Woods due having a shopping center in the city or is it a mix? I ask because places with a relatively high concentration of shopping for its size may show a high crime rate, while the factor of people coming from outside of that city isn't considered in regards to the crime rate.
I would assume so, Harper Woods is tiny. It's population is 14,000 which is smaller by population than every Detroit neighborhood it borders so the crime rates are very easy to skew. It also borders Detroit's most dangerous zip code 48205. And I can't be the only one to notice that Eastland mall (and the stores near there) has 2 high schools right across the street from it. Talk about a theft magnet. And since Eastland is the closest mall to about 150,000 Detroiters and the easiest mall to get to by bus or car for probably about 200,000 Detroiters, most of the people who shop in Harper Woods probably live on the eastside of Detroit. And if they see someone they may not like in Harper Woods and starting fighting, welp there goes another statistic for Harper Woods, even though neither one of them live in Harper Woods.

From what I've seen of Harper Woods itself, it's about the same size as Inkster and Benton Harbor but it is not as rough as those cities at all. Benton Harbor makes Harper Woods look like Grosse Pointe tbh lol.
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Old 12-22-2016, 02:37 PM
 
60,450 posts, read 85,521,430 times
Reputation: 13272
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
I would assume so, Harper Woods is tiny. It's population is 14,000 which is smaller by population than every Detroit neighborhood it borders so the crime rates are very easy to skew. It also borders Detroit's most dangerous zip code 48205. And I can't be the only one to notice that Eastland mall (and the stores near there) has 2 high schools right across the street from it. Talk about a theft magnet. And since Eastland is the closest mall to about 150,000 Detroiters and the easiest mall to get to by bus or car for probably about 200,000 Detroiters, most of the people who shop in Harper Woods probably live on the eastside of Detroit. And if they see someone they may not like in Harper Woods and starting fighting, welp there goes another statistic for Harper Woods, even though neither one of them live in Harper Woods.

From what I've seen of Harper Woods itself, it's about the same size as Inkster and Benton Harbor but it is not as rough as those cities at all. Benton Harbor makes Harper Woods look like Grosse Pointe tbh lol.
Also, isn't there portions of Harper Woods in the Grosse Pointe SD? So, you would think that it would be an option in terms of getting into a good school district without paying ridiculous prices for housing.


Nevermind: https://nces.ed.gov/globallocator/sc...D=262574006229
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