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Old 01-02-2017, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
6,466 posts, read 3,521,203 times
Reputation: 7955

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
So its Maroun's fault the Canadians haven't updated their infrastructure in 90 years? How much money did we spend just a few years ago to update the customs plaza and the connection to i-75?
Why is this solely the fault of Canadians, in your view?

For evidence of commitment to infrastructure spending and maintenance, compare the infrastructure of any major Ontario city with that of Detroit. I could not get over the deplorable conditions of the roads throughout Metro Detroit, for example, during the 14 years I lived there. "It's because it's a winter city" Detroiters would say.

Well, almost all Ontario cities are winter cities, yet the infrastructure is in much better shape. And, considering the infrastructure in most Ontario (and other Canadian) Metros usually entails good public transportation systems, including frequently running local and inter-city buses, commuter trains, LRTs, and expanding subway systems, infrastructure is more complex and sophisticated than it is in Detroit or anywhere in Michigan, which has almost ZERO public transit.

Comparing the infrastructure of Ontario to that of Michigan is like comparing apples with apple strudel.

Michigan Infrastructure | 2013 Report Card for America's Infrastructure


http://www.cscetoronto.ca/wp-content...t-Late-Day.pdf
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,786 posts, read 1,930,463 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig11152 View Post
...In my personal opinion I think he is a corrupt slumlord.
I would call this an objective observation, rather than a personal opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
Why is this solely the fault of Canadians, in your view?

For evidence of commitment to infrastructure spending and maintenance, compare the infrastructure of any major Ontario city with that of Detroit. I could not get over the deplorable conditions of the roads throughout Metro Detroit, for example, during the 14 years I lived there. "It's because it's a winter city" Detroiters would say.

Well, almost all Ontario cities are winter cities, yet the infrastructure is in much better shape. And, considering the infrastructure in most Ontario (and other Canadian) Metros usually entails good public transportation systems, including frequently running local and inter-city buses, commuter trains, LRTs, and expanding subway systems, infrastructure is more complex and sophisticated than it is in Detroit or anywhere in Michigan, which has almost ZERO public transit.

Comparing the infrastructure of Ontario to that of Michigan is like comparing apples with apple strudel. ...
Roads are bad everywhere in the US; overall they're better in Michigan than many other states, - Link: Road and Bridge Data by State.
The problem is we live in a nation where a significant portion of the population values corporate welfare and maintaining a gigantic military-industrial complex, over collectively owned and well maintained infrastructure or public healthcare (as seen in Canada, Australia, and most Western European countries), so we get a situation where a slumlord being a roadblock to infrastructure development is permitted to be a thing.
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Here.
14,543 posts, read 13,269,944 times
Reputation: 17016
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig11152 View Post
Is that you Matty? The tunnel is owned by Detroit and Windsor. Its been owned by those two cities since day one.
The only people who can't see the new bridge is a good thing are Matty and his minions.
Fred Martin became vice president of the company in charge of "The Detroit River Subway Project" in the mid 1920s. He became one of the biggest promoters of the project and was responsible for obtaining the funding needed to begin the project.

In 1926, Parsons, Klapp, Brinkerhoff and Douglas, a prestigious architectural firm in New York predicted that the tunnel would not only be feasible but also profitable. A group of Detroit bankers then made an agreement to fund the project, as long as the firm would design the tunnel and guarantee its construction costs.

An agreement was made between the two cities and the Detroit Canada Tunnel Corporation (DCTC), in which ownership of the tunnel would be transferred to the cities of Detroit and Windsor after 60 years of operation. This condition was made in exchange for the cities allowing construction beneath public rights-of-way.

History of the Detroit/Windsor Tunnel
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Here.
14,543 posts, read 13,269,944 times
Reputation: 17016
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
Why is this solely the fault of Canadians, in your view?

For evidence of commitment to infrastructure spending and maintenance, compare the infrastructure of any major Ontario city with that of Detroit. I could not get over the deplorable conditions of the roads throughout Metro Detroit, for example, during the 14 years I lived there. "It's because it's a winter city" Detroiters would say.

Well, almost all Ontario cities are winter cities, yet the infrastructure is in much better shape. And, considering the infrastructure in most Ontario (and other Canadian) Metros usually entails good public transportation systems, including frequently running local and inter-city buses, commuter trains, LRTs, and expanding subway systems, infrastructure is more complex and sophisticated than it is in Detroit or anywhere in Michigan, which has almost ZERO public transit.

Comparing the infrastructure of Ontario to that of Michigan is like comparing apples with apple strudel.

Michigan Infrastructure | 2013 Report Card for America's Infrastructure


http://www.cscetoronto.ca/wp-content...t-Late-Day.pdf
We're talking about the bridge, not other roads. The road in front of my house has lasted 60 years, has never been repaired, and is in perfect condition. Big deal!
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Here.
14,543 posts, read 13,269,944 times
Reputation: 17016
It's funny to hear people call Maroun a slumlord. Do they realize that the government owns plenty of slum properties? So why would the government be a better owner of a bridge? The Michigan Central Station was acquired by Maroun in payment of a debt to him. It was already abandoned at the time. No one has since been able to come up with a viable use for it. To Maroun's credit, he didn't tear down the building and has recently done some repairs on it.
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,786 posts, read 1,930,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
It's funny to hear people call Maroun a slumlord. Do they realize that the government owns plenty of slum properties? So why would the government be a better owner of a bridge?
Does the government buy up properties, then sit on them in the hopes that somebody else develops around their properties and they can passively increase their wealth by selling or developing them at that point?

No. Typically the government inherits properties it doesn't want and sits on them because it has insufficient money or resources to redevelop it. Land banks are more than happy to sell it at or below market value to whoever is going to develop it and it'll even offer brownfield loans to those who submit plans for redevelopment. Sadly, this is where the slumlords come in. - "It's an investment!" Moroun owns wayyy more properties than the train station, most of them he just owns as part of some sort of messed up slum-portfolio. This is getting off topic, the point is there is no good reason not to have a second bridge at a crossing as major as Detroit to Windsor. I don't particularly care who owns it (state? county? nation? city? Ontario? Whatever..), but trying to tie up public development so you can develop at a profit instead is pretty shady.

In my opinion, critical infrastructure should not be privately owned, because then you don't run into situations where crooks like Moroun breach contract by not connecting their private road to public infrastructure, and end up in jail for the night, because they're too greedy. You want some developer to own the road into your subdivision, yeah, whatever, but owning the sole bridge to Canada for a metro of 5 million people is pretty absurd.
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Here.
14,543 posts, read 13,269,944 times
Reputation: 17016
Most of the properties Maroun owns are around where the new bridge would be. Kind of makes sense that he would acquire property to facilitate the new bridge, no? Yes, he has been "sitting" on them because the slumlord government has tied his hands.

Manuel "Matty" Moroun's Properties
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Old 01-02-2017, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
6,466 posts, read 3,521,203 times
Reputation: 7955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
We're talking about the bridge, not other roads. The road in front of my house has lasted 60 years, has never been repaired, and is in perfect condition. Big deal!
Yes, I'm talking about the bridge, too, as but one example of infrastructure in Michigan. The fact that the Ambassador Bridge is privately owned is beyond ridiculous. ANY public infrastructure, especially, A) an INTERNATIONAL BRIDGE at, B) the busiest border crossing in North America, SHOULD damn well be government owned. Ensuring safe, well-designed and well-built, reliable, efficient infrastructure is one of the roles of good government. That that is even disputed is mind-boggling.

It's very nice that the road in front of YOUR house is in "perfect" condition. Really. So, it's all good, I suppose. It must be that billionaire Maroun makes a conscious, ethical, civically responsible effort to maintain "his" bridge. Chunks of cement falling on homes and cars? Nah.

There's no decaying infrastructure in Detroit/Michigan. Nope. The HUGE potholes drivers must navigate throughout Metro Detroit are figments of their imaginations. There are no abandoned and dilapidated public buildings in the city. The soft infrastructure of public schools is top-notch. The water in Flint is perfectly safe to drink. People getting sick? Figment of libtar*'s imaginations. The incredibly low score Michigan received for its infrastructure in the report above? Bogus. It's nothing but a big liberal conspiracy.

Make your own observations. Do your own research. Compare the infrastructure -- including bridges! -- throughout Ontario, in cities and towns of all sizes, with that of Michigan, in cities and towns of all sizes. I rest my case. Oh, and btw: I'm not a liberal.

Detroit's infrastructure crumbling while city has trouble collecting cash | Michigan Radio

Canada warned of Ambassador Bridge problems in June

The inside story of Canada

Contaminated Tap Water Could Become More Common Thanks to Failing Infrastructure - The Atlantic

Last edited by newdixiegirl; 01-02-2017 at 07:32 PM..
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Old 01-02-2017, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Here.
14,543 posts, read 13,269,944 times
Reputation: 17016
You seem to be debating yourself. You say that the government should own the bridge because it does such a great job of maintenance, then you complain that the government does such a horrible job of maintenance.
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Old 01-02-2017, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
6,466 posts, read 3,521,203 times
Reputation: 7955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
You seem to be debating yourself. You say that the government should own the bridge because it does such a great job of maintenance, then you complain that the government does such a horrible job of maintenance.
I'm saying that GOOD, RESPONSIBLE government prioritizes infrastructure. Yes.

I'm saying that GOOD, RESPONSIBLE government, which isn't controlled by self-serving business interests, puts the public good at the center of what it does, and, in turn, facilitates a strong economy. That's what GOOD, RESPONSIBLE government is for.

I'm saying that if an electorate is taught that all government is bad, that it's to be mistrusted, and that private enterprise is the answer to everything, THAT philosophy will shape the will of the people and eventually become the bedrock of public policy. It will have a direct effect on the allocation of public funds.

The differences between Michigan and Ontario in their commitments to building and maintaining safe, modern, efficient infrastructure, reflects the different value systems of the peoples and the governments. On one side of the border is a government that primarily serves public interests, and, thereby HELPS business and the overall economy; on the other, is a government that primarily serves big business and private wealth, in a commitment to that whole trickle-down thing.

Again, the fact that anyone would or could think it's acceptable for a private citizen and business person to own an INTERNATIONAL bridge, an essential conduit for international commerce and good will between the two of the wealthiest countries on earth, at the busiest border crossing in North America, is astounding.
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