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Old 02-09-2017, 10:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethnicappalachian View Post
I'm not sure how or why pro soccer would be a Detroit thing, when Detroit seem to lack Hispanics.
Ah, the young, the naive and the ignorant. Or just the ignorant.

Soccer is a #1 sport worldwide. It's hardly confined to just the Hispanic nations. If you want to make it a cultural thing (because, of course, tenth-generation Anglos would never think of attending a football match), Detroit is full of people of European and Middle Eastern descent. Certainly enough to fill a stadium once or twice a week. Hell, even Detroit City FC has a dedicated fan base and they compete in a league most of us have never heard of.

I'd love for this to become reality. Granted, it's not the first thing Detroit currently needs, but any kind of positive development in Downtown (so, not a jail) is a good thing.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keraT View Post
But at same time, don't we have enough stadium. I am not into sports & don't understand everything, so this might be a dumb question but why can't we haven't soccer in one of the existing stadium.
Couple of reasons (I'm sure there are more, but these are the low-hanging fruit):

- The Lions stadium might be too big for a soccer fan base which is, admittedly, going to likely be smaller than that of an NFL team.
- You really need a dedicated facility in order for soccer to be taken seriously as a sport and not a side show to football. Call it traditionalism, but I don't fancy much watching a match played on a field with painted 10-yard lines.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig11152 View Post
Just look at Detroit City FC and AFC Ann Arbor. They both play at high school fields and while I don't know Detroit's attendance I know Ann Arbor mostly played to a half empty Pioneer stadium with a 5,000 seat capacity. I am not at all convinced there is some pent up demand for soccer fueled by immigrants and millennials. If there was why don't the local teams play in bigger stadiums to sell out crowds?
Because, to put it plainly, the quality isn't there. Nobody but the most rabid fans (of which, like I mentioned in a previous post, there are a few) really cares about non-major-league sports. An MLS franchise would change that.
Quote:
The 100,000 plus that saw soccer at the Big House wasn't so much a demand for soccer as a demand for an "event"...especially one where you could drink beer.
Right. People drove in from neighboring states and paid $50 to park in order to drink $10 beers.

If you bring it, they will come. There are plenty of people in Metro Detroit who appreciate quality football, which the UMich matches proved in spades.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Ann Arbor MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highlanderfil View Post
Right. People drove in from neighboring states and paid $50 to park in order to drink $10 beers.
Thats not what I said. I am happy to have a spirited discussion if you want to discuss what I said. I don't think what I wrote was overly hard to comprehend.
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:18 AM
 
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I can tell you that I do not like baseball at all. However, I like being at a ball park for the experience on a nice summer day. I image It would be the same for soccer. Its a place to people watch, people meet and have a good time. I think with soccer you have to kind of do extra things like with Minor League baseball, to fill the stands and keep people entertained who might not be soccer fans.
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig11152 View Post
Thats not what I said. I am happy to have a spirited discussion if you want to discuss what I said. I don't think what I wrote was overly hard to comprehend.
I'm sorry, I must have misinterpreted this statement:
Quote:
The 100,000 plus that saw soccer at the Big House wasn't so much a demand for soccer as a demand for an "event"...especially one where you could drink beer.
To me it sounded like you said that most people were more interested in a spectacle during which they could drink beer than the game itself. I don't agree with that viewpoint...well, pretty much at all, because spectacles with beer come a lot easier (and cheaper) than braving immense crowds and finding ridiculously expensive parking on a hot day in order to drink what generally is pretty crappy beer. Sounds like too much trouble for non-fans. So it couldn't have been just that.

The rest is semantics.
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:35 AM
 
4,020 posts, read 2,933,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
I can tell you that I do not like baseball at all. However, I like being at a ball park for the experience on a nice summer day. I image It would be the same for soccer. Its a place to people watch, people meet and have a good time.
It's a different dynamic from baseball. You cannot take breaks between innings (or in middle of innings) or during pitching changes. Apart from halftime there is no down time.
Quote:
I think with soccer you have to kind of do extra things like with Minor League baseball, to fill the stands and keep people entertained who might not be soccer fans.
Or you really don't. Once you start kowtowing to the hoi polloi, you fail on both fronts.
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Old 02-09-2017, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highlanderfil View Post
I'm sorry, I must have misinterpreted this statement:To me it sounded like you said that most people were more interested in a spectacle during which they could drink beer than the game itself. I don't agree with that viewpoint...well, pretty much at all, because spectacles with beer come a lot easier (and cheaper) than braving immense crowds and finding ridiculously expensive parking on a hot day in order to drink what generally is pretty crappy beer. Sounds like too much trouble for non-fans. So it couldn't have been just that.

The rest is semantics.
The event was simply to be part of "the largest soccer crowd" in north america. Not everybody was there for that reason but here is part of my "point"

* getting the one day beer license approved was crucial to getting the game.

* Its my opinion that if you tried that 6 times in a summer attendance would drop dramatically. Like maybe to the MLS average of 18,000 +/-. Obviously that is just an opinion I cannot prove.

* again it seems to me if there was pent up demand then the local semipro team could find 5000 fans regularly. I appreciate your point that the level of play is well below MLS. You say only rabid fans would care. So I guess if we add total attendance of Detroit City FC and AFC Ann Arbor we get the number of rabid fans...less than 10,000 in SE Michigan.
* College football is below the NFL in talent and so is college basketball below the NBA yet they draw fans in large numbers. Minor league baseball overall draws 41 million fans a year to watch less than top notch baseball. So it seems people for other sports are happy to watch a less than top tier event.

I have no issue with Detroit getting an MLS team. I hope it works out. But I would bet that long term they would be well below league average in attendance unless they are a championship caliber team.
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Old 02-09-2017, 01:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig11152 View Post
The event was simply to be part of "the largest soccer crowd" in north america. Not everybody was there for that reason
Pretty much nobody was there for that reason. It wasn't very well publicized, either, if that's what the organizers were going for.
Quote:
* getting the one day beer license approved was crucial to getting the game.
Getting the match? Sure. ICC was sponsored by Heineken. So what?

Tickets to the United-Real match sold out in one day; Real-Chelsea last year also went quickly. Information about the beer license was not disclosed on the ticket sale site, to the best of my recollection. So it's a little ambitious to say that beer sales (which are generally assumed anyways) were key to getting people to the stadium. It's impossible to prove a negative, so I'm not going to attempt to predict what would have happened had beer not been sold. My (fairly well-educated) guess is that it would have made negligible, if any, impact.
Quote:
* Its my opinion that if you tried that 6 times in a summer attendance would drop dramatically. Like maybe to the MLS average of 18,000 +/-. Obviously that is just an opinion I cannot prove.
Probably so. It was a one-time thing and people were spurned on by the fact that it was a one-time thing. No idea what this has to do with Detroit getting a soccer franchise, to be honest.
Quote:
* again it seems to me if there was pent up demand then the local semipro team could find 5000 fans regularly. I appreciate your point that the level of play is well below MLS. You say only rabid fans would care. So I guess if we add total attendance of Detroit City FC and AFC Ann Arbor we get the number of rabid fans...less than 10,000 in SE Michigan.
There's a difference between demand for soccer, period and demand for good soccer (or what passes for good soccer in the States, anyhow). Finding 5000 fans for a semi-pro team is no mean feat. But what you're adding up is not generic soccer fans - it's soccer fans of DCFC and AFC A2. MLS speaks to a much broader audience - even that of casual beer drinkers who want something to do on warm a Saturday afternoon.
Quote:
* College football is below the NFL in talent and so is college basketball below the NBA yet they draw fans in large numbers. Minor league baseball overall draws 41 million fans a year to watch less than top notch baseball. So it seems people for other sports are happy to watch a less than top tier event.
The minor league baseball number is misleading as there are 244 teams across all divisions and they are sole pro teams in many of their cities. Anyhow, soccer has a much less-established base in the U.S. in comparison to the other pro sports and doesn't have as well-established a feeder league system (although major NCAA soccer matches do draw crowds), so it's hard to compare with the big four.
Quote:
I have no issue with Detroit getting an MLS team. I hope it works out. But I would bet that long term they would be well below league average in attendance unless they are a championship caliber team.
Shrug. 18K should not be a difficult number to hit, especially if the tickets are priced appropriately.
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Old 02-09-2017, 02:49 PM
 
135 posts, read 104,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig11152 View Post
I am a small soccer fan. My daughter played 8-10 years from the early 90's through 2000. Because of her I even got my FIFA referee license once upon a time although I never worked anything higher than U-14.

But I am not convinced soccer will ever be very big here. Just look at Detroit City FC and AFC Ann Arbor. They both play at high school fields and while I don't know Detroit's attendance I know Ann Arbor mostly played to a half empty Pioneer stadium with a 5,000 seat capacity. I am not at all convinced there is some pent up demand for soccer fueled by immigrants and millennials. If there was why don't the local teams play in bigger stadiums to sell out crowds?
The 100,000 plus that saw soccer at the Big House wasn't so much a demand for soccer as a demand for an "event"...especially one where you could drink beer.
I think the issue isn't that there is no demand or interest in soccer specifically, it's probably that there isn't a demand for MLS or lower level soccer. Soccer is unique from the standpoint that the U.S. isn't home to the highest level league in the sport in terms of quality. The NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL are the premier leagues in the world for their particular sports. I definitely think there are enough soccer fans to fill the big house on a regular basis, but the problem is that they would only do so to watch Manchester United, Barcelona, Real Madrid, etc. If the U.S. were able to attract the best players in the world at their peak and MLS became the marquee soccer league in the world, I think anywhere in the country could sell out game sin large number on a regular basis. It's just that soccer isn't popular enough in the mainstream in most parts of this country for people to consistently turnout for anything less than the highest quality of play
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