U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Michigan > Detroit
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-09-2017, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor MI
2,103 posts, read 1,347,757 times
Reputation: 2885

Advertisements

Thanks you two guys are making my point for me better than I can. Trouble is you don't seem to realize it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-09-2017, 03:42 PM
 
4,020 posts, read 2,923,401 times
Reputation: 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig11152 View Post
Thanks you two guys are making my point for me better than I can. Trouble is you don't seem to realize it.
What was your point, exactly? That Detroit won't fill an MLS stadium? I don't think anything we said here supports that assertion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2017, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,800,902 times
Reputation: 2624
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig11152 View Post
I have no issue with Detroit getting an MLS team. I hope it works out. But I would bet that long term they would be well below league average in attendance unless they are a championship caliber team.
So what's so special about Orlando, Portland, KC, Columbus, Salt Lake City, Denver, Minneapolis, Seattle? MLS can work in these cities that are not only much smaller than Detroit but also doesn't have the middle eastern population that Detroit has nor does part of it's metro area lay in Canada but for some reason it wouldn't work in Detroit? In fact, I think Detroit is the largest city that doesn't have a MLS team yet. Why wouldn't this work in Detroit again?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-10-2017, 06:40 AM
 
12,486 posts, read 7,585,778 times
Reputation: 4755
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
So what's so special about Orlando, Portland, KC, Columbus, Salt Lake City, Denver, Minneapolis, Seattle? MLS can work in these cities that are not only much smaller than Detroit but also doesn't have the middle eastern population that Detroit has nor does part of it's metro area lay in Canada but for some reason it wouldn't work in Detroit? In fact, I think Detroit is the largest city that doesn't have a MLS team yet. Why wouldn't this work in Detroit again?
Exactly. 10 million people in a 100 mile radius and you cannot be as viable of a market as KC, or Salt Lake City, which have less than 3 million people in a 100 mile radius? I think most people, even many who live in the region, do not know how populated the region is. You cannot get 10 million people in a 100 mile radius, of Dallas, Houston, or Atlanta….and these areas are in the top 10 largest metropolitan areas in the country. The region is Huge



Last edited by Indentured Servant; 02-10-2017 at 06:50 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-10-2017, 07:01 PM
 
Location: NYC/CLE
528 posts, read 479,673 times
Reputation: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Exactly. 10 million people in a 100 mile radius and you cannot be as viable of a market as KC, or Salt Lake City, which have less than 3 million people in a 100 mile radius? I think most people, even many who live in the region, do not know how populated the region is. You cannot get 10 million people in a 100 mile radius, of Dallas, Houston, or Atlanta….and these areas are in the top 10 largest metropolitan areas in the country. The region is Huge

I don't wanna be a Debbie downer, but SLC has 1 pro sports team, KC has 2, Houston and Atlanta have 3. Only Dallas out of that group have 4 major pro sports teams. Also, I think Detroit is more focused on hockey and baseball than soccer, as opposed to Dallas which might have the most bandwagon sports fans in America.

Just playing devils advocate. I think they deserve a team, but the City FC supporters must be on board, or it will be a nightmare.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2017, 04:26 AM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,800,902 times
Reputation: 2624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Exactly. 10 million people in a 100 mile radius and you cannot be as viable of a market as KC, or Salt Lake City, which have less than 3 million people in a 100 mile radius? I think most people, even many who live in the region, do not know how populated the region is. You cannot get 10 million people in a 100 mile radius, of Dallas, Houston, or Atlanta….and these areas are in the top 10 largest metropolitan areas in the country. The region is Huge


Damn I didn't even know the population near Detroit was THAT high. But Detroit, LA, and SF always have misleading metro area populations. And lol yea... most people think it's just the 3 core counties (although Ann Arbor/ Ypsi is starting to be put in the discussion from younger people). Most people I noticed underestimate the size and importance of Metro Detroit. And part of the reason is because alot of people rarely go outside of their "sub-regions". You have the city and next door suburbs, northeast suburbs, northwest suburbs, downriver, west suburbs, Ann Arbor/ Ypsi area, Windsor area, Livingston Co, and then the exurbs (the subdivisons on 25 mile and 30 mile rd and crap like that). And most people don't know much about the rest of the region outside of their bubble area and therefore don't know the real size of the region. I admit, I was one of them before I started researching and exploring more of the region. But this culture has died down quite dramatically in the past 10 or so years largely because of the internet telling people "there's alot of cool things you don't know about nearby" and then the housing crash forcing the region to finally diversify.

Anyway, yeah I'm sure MLS won't have a problem getting a good fan base in one of the biggest sports towns in the country when they are already in much smaller markets.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-14-2017, 06:32 AM
 
12,486 posts, read 7,585,778 times
Reputation: 4755
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
Damn I didn't even know the population near Detroit was THAT high. But Detroit, LA, and SF always have misleading metro area populations. And lol yea... most people think it's just the 3 core counties (although Ann Arbor/ Ypsi is starting to be put in the discussion from younger people). Most people I noticed underestimate the size and importance of Metro Detroit. And part of the reason is because alot of people rarely go outside of their "sub-regions". You have the city and next door suburbs, northeast suburbs, northwest suburbs, downriver, west suburbs, Ann Arbor/ Ypsi area, Windsor area, Livingston Co, and then the exurbs (the subdivisons on 25 mile and 30 mile rd and crap like that). And most people don't know much about the rest of the region outside of their bubble area and therefore don't know the real size of the region. I admit, I was one of them before I started researching and exploring more of the region. But this culture has died down quite dramatically in the past 10 or so years largely because of the internet telling people "there's alot of cool things you don't know about nearby" and then the housing crash forcing the region to finally diversify.

Anyway, yeah I'm sure MLS won't have a problem getting a good fan base in one of the biggest sports towns in the country when they are already in much smaller markets.

Metropolitan areas are defined by commuting. If you live in an area with a good regional transportation system, a strong central business district nucleus of jobs, and good weather (people are less likely to want to commute long distance is snowy climates than in non snowy climates).....such promotes people commuting into core counties from afar. Detroit does all of those things.....poorly, if at all. Thus, Detroit's metro footprint is very small. Contrast Detroit's MSA with Atlanta's. Detroit's MSA is 3888 square miles with 4.2 million people. Atlanta's MSA is 8,376 square miles (twice that of Detroit's) with 5.7 million people.

The MSA data is the mostly widely used metric to define an areas size and influence. Hence, Atlanta looks like it is head and shoulders above Detroit with 5.7 million people vs Detroit's 4.2 million. However, in reality this does not mean that there are more people in that area than in the Detroit area. It means that more people in that area commute to Atlanta core counties and hence those people who do get counted as part of their MSA.

As demonstration that there are not more people in that human settlement area, look at Detroit's CSA. CSAs are defined with a lower commuting rate percentage threshold for counties and hence are usually always larger than MSA. Its the broadest metric of how big and influential an area is in regards to population. Detroit's CSA's foot print is still SMALLER than Atlanta's MSA footprint. Detroit's CSA has 5.3 million people in 5,800 square miles (remember that Atlanta MSA is 8,376 square miles), which is about the same population as Atlanta's MSA, but in a smaller land area. Atlanta's CSA, however, is 10,400 square miles and has 6.3 million people. If you superimpose 10,400 square miles over the Detroit region you will have about 7 million people and would include Detroit, Ann Arbor, Flint, Toledo, Windsor etc, in that foot print.

In summary, just because an MSA is ranked higher in population than another MSA does not mean that there are, literally, more people living in a particular area than another. This is especially true of the east coast. Dallas MSA is ranked above that of Philadelphia. However, if you superimpose the square miles that make up the Dallas MSA over the Philly area the Philly population would dwarf that of Dallas.

Say you have two separate groupings of people standing near each other. There is a group A to your right and there is a group B to your left. Each group has 100 people in them. MSA and CSA rankings defines the population of the groups by a formula, such as, "you get counted in the group ONLY if you interact with someone in the core of the groups". Thus, although each "grouping" really has the same absolute number of people, they have different relative numbers based upon the formula. Its not an absolute count of the size of the group, but rather, a count of people who demonstrate a particular behavior within a grouping.

MSA populations are not the best metric......for marketing sports teams. Mile radius population is a better metric.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; 02-14-2017 at 07:34 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-14-2017, 01:08 PM
 
51,862 posts, read 47,690,997 times
Reputation: 16191
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethnicappalachian View Post
I'm not sure how or why pro soccer would be a Detroit thing, when Detroit seem to lack Hispanics. I've been wondering about this lately. I wonder why Chicago has a huge Hispanic population but not Detroit? Was Detroit not an attractive option?
Seattle doesn't have a large Hispanic population and the Seattle Sounders FC do very well over there. Just won the MLS Cup in 2016, 7 years after their establishment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-15-2017, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,800,902 times
Reputation: 2624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Metropolitan areas are defined by commuting. If you live in an area with a good regional transportation system, a strong central business district nucleus of jobs, and good weather (people are less likely to want to commute long distance is snowy climates than in non snowy climates).....such promotes people commuting into core counties from afar. Detroit does all of those things.....poorly, if at all. Thus, Detroit's metro footprint is very small. Contrast Detroit's MSA with Atlanta's. Detroit's MSA is 3888 square miles with 4.2 million people. Atlanta's MSA is 8,376 square miles (twice that of Detroit's) with 5.7 million people.

The MSA data is the mostly widely used metric to define an areas size and influence. Hence, Atlanta looks like it is head and shoulders above Detroit with 5.7 million people vs Detroit's 4.2 million. However, in reality this does not mean that there are more people in that area than in the Detroit area. It means that more people in that area commute to Atlanta core counties and hence those people who do get counted as part of their MSA.

As demonstration that there are not more people in that human settlement area, look at Detroit's CSA. CSAs are defined with a lower commuting rate percentage threshold for counties and hence are usually always larger than MSA. Its the broadest metric of how big and influential an area is in regards to population. Detroit's CSA's foot print is still SMALLER than Atlanta's MSA footprint. Detroit's CSA has 5.3 million people in 5,800 square miles (remember that Atlanta MSA is 8,376 square miles), which is about the same population as Atlanta's MSA, but in a smaller land area. Atlanta's CSA, however, is 10,400 square miles and has 6.3 million people. If you superimpose 10,400 square miles over the Detroit region you will have about 7 million people and would include Detroit, Ann Arbor, Flint, Toledo, Windsor etc, in that foot print.

In summary, just because an MSA is ranked higher in population than another MSA does not mean that there are, literally, more people living in a particular area than another. This is especially true of the east coast. Dallas MSA is ranked above that of Philadelphia. However, if you superimpose the square miles that make up the Dallas MSA over the Philly area the Philly population would dwarf that of Dallas.

Say you have two separate groupings of people standing near each other. There is a group A to your right and there is a group B to your left. Each group has 100 people in them. MSA and CSA rankings defines the population of the groups by a formula, such as, "you get counted in the group ONLY if you interact with someone in the core of the groups". Thus, although each "grouping" really has the same absolute number of people, they have different relative numbers based upon the formula. Its not an absolute count of the size of the group, but rather, a count of people who demonstrate a particular behavior within a grouping.

MSA populations are not the best metric......for marketing sports teams. Mile radius population is a better metric.
Facts. MSA is almost starting to get just as ridiculous as inflated city limits in some places. It's still a much better measurement but like you said, not perfect at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Michigan > Detroit
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top