Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Speaking of failed cities, East St. Louis now only has 27,006 people. People think of it as its own city, yet its tiny too.
Inkster has about 24,962 people as of 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313
For a town of 20,000 people. I think Inkster is more or less the size of a average Detroit neighborhood by population but worse than the average Detroit neighborhood.
Drro, make up man. That was almost 10 years ago.
The auto industry is doing alright. What happened was that many of the factories moved to the U.S. South, and two of three of the big three car company headquarters are in the suburbs (the move of Chrysler from Highland Park to Auburn Hills really destroyed HP's finances)
Speaking of failed cities, East St. Louis now only has 27,006 people. People think of it as its own city, yet its tiny too.
Inkster has about 24,962 people as of 2012.
The auto industry is doing alright. What happened was that many of the factories moved to the U.S. South, and two of three of the big three car company headquarters are in the suburbs (the move of Chrysler from Highland Park to Auburn Hills really destroyed HP's finances)
Yea well the Ford motor company has always been in Dearborn. As for Chrysler, they're the biggest sellout of the 3 for sure. They have a history of it. I don't really have a problem with big companies being headquartered in the suburbs, as long as it's in the metro area. Silicon Valley is just a suburb of San Francisco. But I don't like them taking jobs out of the working class/ blue collar neighborhoods and opening up more and more jobs in the far out suburbs.
Oh shoot. I guess no one told you - this is 2017. Time to update your calendar (and your worldview). Better let your friends know about the last fifteen years as well. It can be pretty awful to suddenly realize 10 years have passed and you did not notice.
Automakers are doing quite well now. They are back to selling the high margin big vehicles like mad. Sedans are not selling well, but the mfgs are not hurt by it. They make a lot more on SUVs which are immensely popular once again.
Fiat is a bit strapped for cash. If there is a downturn, they are really in trouble. The others are anticipating a future downturn and this time, when it comes, they will not get caught unaware and will be prepared to deal with it and come out in good shape.
What I meant to say is that many jobs got lost in the crisis of 2008 in automotive and some plants closed and those jobs are not coming back so towns in Michigan still feel the effects like increased unemployment, poverty, urban decay, and crime today. For example it seems the Pontiac Assembly Center closed in 2009 and those jobs will not come back with the current revival of the market.
What I meant to say is that many jobs got lost in the crisis of 2008 in automotive and some plants closed and those jobs are not coming back so towns in Michigan still feel the effects like increased unemployment, poverty, urban decay, and crime today. For example it seems the Pontiac Assembly Center closed in 2009 and those jobs will not come back with the current revival of the market.
What you are missing is yes - many of the jobs have come back to towns in Michigan. Obviously there are no new jobs for Pontiac since it closed, but the operating factories have been hiring for along time and cannot get enough qualified people. Better yet, is the tech center expansions which bring in new jobs, but higher paying jobs.
Right now Michigan has a labor shortage. There are too many openings and not enough qualified people.
What you are missing is yes - many of the jobs have come back to towns in Michigan. Obviously there are no new jobs for Pontiac since it closed, but the operating factories have been hiring for along time and cannot get enough qualified people. Better yet, is the tech center expansions which bring in new jobs, but higher paying jobs.
Right now Michigan has a labor shortage. There are too many openings and not enough qualified people.
That means too many UNDER PAID jobs and not enough desperate people to fill them?
I have seen position requiring a master degree start at $39K....
Must have 10 years experience pays $15.00 an hour..
Must have 5 years experience, pays $12.00 an hour
And when a a four year degree position is paying $29K to start? It is more than just a "shortage" of qualified people.
That means too many UNDER PAID jobs and not enough desperate people to fill them?
I have seen position requiring a master degree start at $39K....
Must have 10 years experience pays $15.00 an hour..
Must have 5 years experience, pays $12.00 an hour
And when a a four year degree position is paying $29K to start? It is more than just a "shortage" of qualified people.
No. It means jobs that require some level of technical skills (either a few years experience or vocational training) and not enough people to fill them. It also means you do not start at the top. $15 an hour ($30700 a year, is not horrible starting pay. You then work your way up. No, you are not going to get to upper middle class on an assembly line, but you can make a living. Everyone is taught success means go to college. After completing their humanities degree, they are far too educated to take some manual labor job. Thus we have thousands of unemployed Humanitarians, lawyers, English majors, fiction or poetry writers etc and thousands of unfilled positions for factory workers, plumbers, welders, electricians, truck drivers, mechanics etc. The lower paying jobs (12 - 15 an hour) are the lowest skill jobs, cleaning, warehouse person, laborer. Skilled persons make considerably more. A certified welder for example makes around $20 an hour on average (much much more in some locations), and can bring in considerably more with advanced certifications or competency. In ten years, a welder can be hugely in demand.
Those looked down upon jobs still pay decently. But they require some knowledge and skill. They are not jobs you walk into out of high school or after dropping out of high school and start at the top, or even in the middle.
Huge numbers of experienced auto workers were retired with substantial buyouts and now run a pizza store or a lawn mowing service work whatever and have no interest in going back. The factories are having trouble getting enough skilled people. It is not a question of pay or desire for the jobs, it is a question of people with the needed skills. There are plenty of trainee wannabees, but you cannot put a trainee on the line and walk away, especially in some of the advanced/high tech positions.
Yes there are 4 year degree positions starting at $29K with applicants lined up around the block and there are four year degree positions starting at $72K and difficulty finding qualified candidates. It is a question of selecting the right degree. If your degree is in Art history or Psychology, you will take a $29 k starting position gladly and hope to work your way up. If your degree is in Java programming, you are going to hold out for two or three times that amount. Librarians must have a masters degree and $39K is good pay for an entry level librarian. Teachers start in the low 30K range in most states, and that requires a degree that typically takes five years. A four year oil and gas engineer can pull in $250K to start in South Dakota.
I am not sure what your point is or what that has to do with the prior discussion about the condition of the auto industry.
By the way, aren't you the guy who lives in Europe? Where have you seen the jobs you are describing? Europe? Employers in the USA do not normally advertise starting pay, so you did not see that here.
Pay for many people across the entire US is down from 2008 levels and we as a people will probably never see that high a standard of living again. That has nothing to do with the Auto industry, Michigan, or anything else we are discussing. I am certain I will never see the equivalent of what I made then (after adjusting for inflation), but that has nothing to do with Michigan, or the auto industry.
In 2015, moved to Michigan with only 4 years of experience for a job that offered pay raise. The only reason I've stayed rather than moving to another job for another raise is because I have unreal benefits and I want my 10% 401k match to be vested before I move on to something else.
People who are complaining that the economy here is bad either have no applicable skills, or they don't know how to apply for a job. I suppose sometimes it's easier to complain about the situation we're in than it is to make significant effort to improve it.
Yes. Inkster has insanely high crime, no schools and no redeeming qualities to speak of. It's an incredibly depressing place with violent crime on par with the worst parts of Detroit and Flint.
I can't think of anyplace else that is close. River Rouge? Wayne is getting pretty bad these days. I still don't think they're within spitting distance of Inkster.
Funny that I should read this. My aunt and uncle live in Westland and my uncle told me on the phone the other day about how bad Inkster is. He drives all over the Detroit metro since he works for a heating and air company. He said that he felt safer going through the worst parts of Detroit than Inkster.
However, I was surprised when he told me that Wayne had gone downhill. They lived in Inkster in the early 1990's before moving to Wayne in 1994, where they stayed until 2011 when they moved to Westland. Wayne had always seemed like an OK place whenever I was there visiting. Last time I was in the area was in 2013. They lived on Howe Road, so I used to go to the Wayne Recreation Center and go for walks at Atwood Park with my cousins and their dogs. Being walking distance from Little Caesar's and Al's Market made my visits much sweeter!
No. It means jobs that require some level of technical skills (either a few years experience or vocational training) and not enough people to fill them. It also means you do not start at the top. $15 an hour ($30700 a year, is not horrible starting pay. You then work your way up. No, you are not going to get to upper middle class on an assembly line, but you can make a living. Everyone is taught success means go to college. After completing their humanities degree, they are far too educated to take some manual labor job. Thus we have thousands of unemployed Humanitarians, lawyers, English majors, fiction or poetry writers etc and thousands of unfilled positions for factory workers, plumbers, welders, electricians, truck drivers, mechanics etc. The lower paying jobs (12 - 15 an hour) are the lowest skill jobs, cleaning, warehouse person, laborer. Skilled persons make considerably more. A certified welder for example makes around $20 an hour on average (much much more in some locations), and can bring in considerably more with advanced certifications or competency. In ten years, a welder can be hugely in demand.
Those looked down upon jobs still pay decently. But they require some knowledge and skill. They are not jobs you walk into out of high school or after dropping out of high school and start at the top, or even in the middle.
Huge numbers of experienced auto workers were retired with substantial buyouts and now run a pizza store or a lawn mowing service work whatever and have no interest in going back. The factories are having trouble getting enough skilled people. It is not a question of pay or desire for the jobs, it is a question of people with the needed skills. There are plenty of trainee wannabees, but you cannot put a trainee on the line and walk away, especially in some of the advanced/high tech positions.
Yes there are 4 year degree positions starting at $29K with applicants lined up around the block and there are four year degree positions starting at $72K and difficulty finding qualified candidates. It is a question of selecting the right degree. If your degree is in Art history or Psychology, you will take a $29 k starting position gladly and hope to work your way up. If your degree is in Java programming, you are going to hold out for two or three times that amount. Librarians must have a masters degree and $39K is good pay for an entry level librarian. Teachers start in the low 30K range in most states, and that requires a degree that typically takes five years. A four year oil and gas engineer can pull in $250K to start in South Dakota.
I am not sure what your point is or what that has to do with the prior discussion about the condition of the auto industry.
By the way, aren't you the guy who lives in Europe? Where have you seen the jobs you are describing? Europe? Employers in the USA do not normally advertise starting pay, so you did not see that here.
Pay for many people across the entire US is down from 2008 levels and we as a people will probably never see that high a standard of living again. That has nothing to do with the Auto industry, Michigan, or anything else we are discussing. I am certain I will never see the equivalent of what I made then (after adjusting for inflation), but that has nothing to do with Michigan, or the auto industry.
$32K a year is poverty. At a 30% tax rate one nets around $23K.. with rent being near $800 per month that leaves $14K for all the good things in life like FOOD, TRANSPORTATION, UTILITIES and do not even think about EDUCATION or HEALTH CARE..
FLASH--TRICKLE DOWN REALLY HASN'T EVER WORKED.
One should be paid based on contribution to over all company profits--not just on seniority.
Ask any TEACHER (graduating since 1990) if their salary is fair? Being paid $45K with 20 years experience and two masters is an insult.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
