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Old 05-04-2017, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
27,776 posts, read 65,683,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekman243 View Post
Plus Detroit has so many non profit organizations that do an awesome job working with thousands of kids providing thousands of after school and summer learning and growing activities. Citywide ThinkDetroit Pal has one of the best in the nation programs. Midnight Golf program is excellent with a who,s who list of alumni. On the eastside, Grace Community church {what a amazing church, Detroiters and Grosse Pointers} runs Soar and Eagle Sports which is also growing at a fast pace over at Balduck Park. Everyone is so into STEM concept for the kids these days but one of oldest and best again in the nation is DACEP which has been doing it since 1976 and also has a who,s who list of alumni. WSU has a excellent kiddie college and math corp program where kids are trained in music instruments, math, acting, language arts etc.. State Of Michigan has an excellent program for kids at Belle Isle and its Nature Center on the river walk. The point being if it is your goal to keep your kid busy continually learning and safe in Detroit it is quite easy because of all the opportunities too numerous to list.
That is an interesting point, It is a very different point that the one that kept us from buying the Boston Edison house. I am glad there are things around Detroit you can drive kids to do and attend with them. Detroit can also drive their kids to the suburbs to do those things. So, yes, there are opportunities to drive kids place and stay with them or in the case of monitored programs drop them off for a while.
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Old 05-04-2017, 08:24 AM
 
4,722 posts, read 8,576,521 times
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How many days a week should the kids do these programs? If they live in close in suburbs they can come into Detroit on Saturdays.

In regards to the Japanese School in Novi students come from pretty far distances to attend classes on Saturdays. Programs in Detroit may work similarly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekman243 View Post
Plus Detroit has so many non profit organizations that do an awesome job working with thousands of kids providing thousands of after school and summer learning and growing activities. Citywide ThinkDetroit Pal has one of the best in the nation programs. Midnight Golf program is excellent with a who,s who list of alumni. On the eastside, Grace Community church {what a amazing church, Detroiters and Grosse Pointers} runs Soar and Eagle Sports which is also growing at a fast pace over at Balduck Park. Everyone is so into STEM concept for the kids these days but one of oldest and best again in the nation is DACEP which has been doing it since 1976 and also has a who,s who list of alumni. WSU has a excellent kiddie college and math corp program where kids are trained in music instruments, math, acting, language arts etc.. State Of Michigan has an excellent program for kids at Belle Isle and its Nature Center on the river walk. The point being if it is your goal to keep your kid busy continually learning and safe in Detroit it is quite easy because of all the opportunities too numerous to list.
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Old 05-04-2017, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,809,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
Yes, there are over 300 parks/playgrounds in Detroit. A ton of small and large neighborhood parks are in the northwest, north-central, and northeast part of the city. Plus, kids play out in front of their house or there friends' houses. Detroit went on a neighborhood park binge in the 50's - there are so many neighborhood parks named after soldiers from Michigan who lost their lives in World War II.

The reality is that suburban parks are going to be better maintained and safer. Suburbanites also are closer to Metroparks and the State recreation areas. Detroit has had problems maintaining parks and recreation centers over the years. Just look at Belle Isle. Several years ago, Mayor Bing seriously contemplated closing many parks including Rouge.

City of Detroit to close 77 parks in July

I guess Coldjensen's fear is that his kids may be kidnapped or caught in the crossfire of a drive-by shooting? It does happen - I had a young cousin in Flint who was riding her bike and was struck and killed by a stray bullet.
That's why I said in my last post I'm sure the suburban parks are safer and better maintained my point was that doesn't mean kids don't have nowhere to play. There are some neighborhoods where parents make their kids stay in the backyards because the front yard is too dangerous.

And yea I said something about the metro parks in my last post. Personally I love them and they are worth the drive. But I was more so comparing the proximity to close neighborhood parks.

Quote:
Prefer not having the kids playing in a park with hypodermic needles laying around. It is better now, but when we were looking most of the parks were made up of foot high weeds, trash and litter, hypodermic needles and condoms. Some of them were oddly fenced in with no way to access the park or play equipment. Most of the play equipment was broken or missing parts and unusable anyway. At best you had a few intact swings and maybe a rusty slide and the stubs of other things long gone missing.

However please refer back to what I said. What I was discussing is where kids can go by themselves to hang out with other kids without supervision. Where can they go off for an afternoon bike ride? Haging out sans parents is an important way to learn about being self disciplined, and responsible. Starting at aruond 10 -12 kids need to get out an away form the homestead and out form under the wing of mom and dad. If your answer is "Oh it is fine for them to go riding around in the City," then I can only assume (and hope) that you are not yet a parent.

Any safety issue is a concern, but my greater concern would be they get hit by a car, beat up by a bully, hassled for money by a homeless person and have no idea how to handle it (at least in the downtown area, most of the homeless are mentally ill young men), harassed by gang banger types, wander into a bad area, inadvertently tick someone off. The city is/was also simply physically dangerous. The condition of streets, sidewalks, abandoned buildings and other structures, trash laying around, even or especially the few parks that were still open were in dangerous condition. Then you get into all the rare but headline worthy issues the media so loves to terrify parents with.

Before Belle Isle became a state park, where was there any decent (let alone nice) park in the city where kids could cut loose and run off without "eyes on" supervision? In the area around Boston Edison there was no place I would let my kids go outside the neighborhood unless they were in a car, and inside the neighborhood, I would want to be with them at all times. Where is there a bike trail that a group of three of four young kids could go for a two hour bike ride? Where is there a park that they can explore the marvels of nature?

There were opportunities to drive them places, We could have driven out to Dad's an hour away and they could pay int he woods and stream or swamp unfettered and unprotected. But we had already done that lifestyle in another city. We did not want them playing in a parking lot or an alley or an abandoned factory. We wanted fields, streams, woods and streets/ bicycle trails where they could wander at will.
Your concerns are understandable. I'm not knocking anyone for that. Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable with my kids running off without supervision in any park. Even metro parks. Unless they are about 12 years old. If there are 4 or 5 12 or 13 year olds with cell phones I wouldn't mind them going bike riding on the riverwalk or dequindre cut or some of the other larger parks in the city as long as they checked in with me or at least called me every half hour or so. But like I said, I would be on as much high alert in Kingston metro park as I would in Belle Isle or Rouge park. Some people have a peace of mind in the burbs, I personally wouldn't let my guard down anywhere in this sick world. But that's just me.
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Old 05-04-2017, 04:06 PM
 
980 posts, read 1,120,606 times
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So for reference, growing up in Troy in the 80/90's:

1st grade - I could ride by bike alone up and down the street, if I wanted to go around the block I had to tell my parents that I was going around the block. This was in the era of no helmets of course.

2nd grade - if we asked our parents, my friend and I could ride our bikes to our school to play on the playground about a half mile away (including crossing a major road at the crosswalk)

3rd grade - we belonged to a swim club in the neighborhood, and once you were 9 you were allowed to be there without adult supervision. So we would ride our bikes over and go swimming. Again as long as I told my parents were we were going and when we'd be home I was fine. The pool had a pay phone so you could call if plans changed

4th grade - I was allowed to come home after school by myself and be home alone until my parents got home from work. Usually I'd go play at a friends house

5th grade - I was allowed to ride my bike to some of my friends that lived 2-3 miles away including crossing major roads like Big Beaver

6th grade - we were allowed to ride our bikes and hang out in downtown Birmingham by ourselves

This all in the pre-cell phone, no helmet era. I'm pretty sure now days my parents would seem like candidates for protective services. Nothing bad ever happened to us.
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Old 05-04-2017, 04:16 PM
 
980 posts, read 1,120,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Interesting point about Dearborn. It arguably does have potential. It does not have much int he way of a architecturally pleasing/quaint downtown center but that does not mean they cant make one. Dearborn has a lot of neat amenities other towns lack: A symphony, a well established community theater, two colleges.. .



It is funny how different perceptions are about "down to earth." To me, Rochester Hills would make the top three to five least down to earth cities in the Metro. While it does have many of the amenities listed, the pretentiousness/KUWTJ materialism kept us from considering RH as an option for our family, despite our closest friends in Michgian living there. It is also a bit too new McMansion/chain store oriented for our tastes, but for that lifestyle, it is a really nice place to raise a family (unless you want a down to earth place.) Yes you can drive to Rochester City and walk around, but pretty much every city can say there is a nice walk-able place within driving distance. The hills are awesome, but I would not describe forests, lakes, or rivers/streams as "flat boring"landscape. Maybe if you are comparing the way south suburbs, there are some flat and boring areas (a few places were basically farmland, but not sure they qaulify as flat and boring. Rochester Hills is a great place for families tolerant of or looking for suburban sprawl. However "down to earth"is clearly a subjective concept and we obviously have 180 degree different definitions or understandings of that concept. Just out of curiosity, do you consider Birmingham to be down to earth? Novi?
Rochester Hills is many different things to many different people. It often gets broad-brushed a massive McMansion KUWTJ sprawl-berg but its a bit more complex than that. Rochester Hills basically has all types of development and housing styles that really spans anything from cheap slab Post WWII homes, sprawling ranch houses, 1960/70s colonials, 1980s new builds, and 90s-00's McMansions, and even a trailer park. Rochester Hills south of Hamlin Road is a lot more affordable, tends to have more of a blue-collar feel particularly the southeast corner.

Yes, Rochester Road is a hot mess of strip malls and chain stores but parts of Rochester Hills are really quiet and the rolling and tree-filled terrains makes it seem a lot more relaxed that anything south of Big Beaver/16 Mile.

The dynamic of Rochester Hills really changed starting the late '80s once Troy was essentially built-out large tracts of developable land and when Auburn Hills began to boom as a job center particularly when Chrysler moved out there and the Palace opened-up.

Some of what you see also in Rochester Hills is contributed by the big-money and large homes in Oakland Township adjacent to the north. They come to Rochester and Rochester Hills for all of their retail and restaurants.
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Old 05-05-2017, 01:34 AM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,299,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
However please refer back to what I said. What I was discussing is where kids can go by themselves to hang out with other kids without supervision. Where can they go off for an afternoon bike ride?
Kids can ride their bikes along the various neighborhood streets and commercial streets, because all of streets had sidewalks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Before Belle Isle became a state park, where was there any decent (let alone nice) park in the city where kids could cut loose and run off without "eyes on" supervision? In the area around Boston Edison there was no place I would let my kids go outside the neighborhood unless they were in a car, and inside the neighborhood, I would want to be with them at all times. Where is there a bike trail that a group of three of four young kids could go for a two hour bike ride? Where is there a park that they can explore the marvels of nature?
Did you ever consider the Grandmont-Rosedale area? Rosedale Park/Grandmont and the Palmer Woods/Sherwood Forest/University District are pretty large areas where you can ride a bike block after block and not see abandoned structures, and are not surrounded by war zones (except east of Palmer Woods and southwest of Rosedale Park).

Good-sized Stoepel Park # 1 in South Rosedale Park
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3976...7i13312!8i6656

North Rosedale Community House and Park
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4072...8i6656!6m1!1e1

Douglas Ramsay Memorial Playground in Grandmont
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3970...8i6656!6m1!1e1

Rosemont Acacia Park in Grandmont #1
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3914...8i6656!6m1!1e1

Maybe not the large forests and nature preserves in Grosse Isle, but there are parks. You did what was best for you and your family, however not all 600,000 of us residents have to leave the city to go a nice park or to be able to ride a bike.

Last edited by usroute10; 05-05-2017 at 02:10 AM..
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Old 05-05-2017, 07:13 AM
 
980 posts, read 1,120,606 times
Reputation: 1099
My turn here:

Best city for young singles: Ann Arbor or Downtown / Midtown Detroit

Best city for young families: Berkley another vote for a good place thats affordable for people in their late-20s / early 30s with kids, and can still be affordable with people on one decent income and a SAHM

Best city for older families: Rochester or Rochester Hills

Best city for retirees: not really anywhere, maybe Bloomfield Hills, Franklin, or Bloomfield Township if you are really wealthy and into the country club scene, but Metro Detroit is pretty lousy for most middle class & working class retirees.

Most improved city since 2000: Clawson, this city was kind of left behind and is now showing an influx of younger residents, developing a sense of place/community, improving the 14 Mile strip, seen new local businesses open, and bascially starting to look at feel a lot like Berkley

Most improvable, promising city going forward: Detroit ike said at least the Downtown, Midtown, Corktown areas and adjacent neighborhoods are on an upward trajectory

Most desirable "Affordable" city: Sterling Heights still somewhat kind of a diamond in the rough that is safe, close to major business centers, has decent schools, and decent parks, and its a lot more affordable that anything comparable in Oakland County.

Most Down-to-Earth "high-income" city: Huntington Woods & Pleasant Ridge, another vote these smaller communities that have some very cool architecture, in a great central location, and have have a strong community-minded residents

Best inner-ring suburb: Royal Oak with Dearborn hopefully closing the gap

Best outer-ring suburb: Novior Northville

Best exurb: Dexter or maybe Washington Township

Overall, best place to live in the entire metro:......
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Old 05-15-2017, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
27,776 posts, read 65,683,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
Kids can ride their bikes along the various neighborhood streets and commercial streets, because all of streets had sidewalks.



Did you ever consider the Grandmont-Rosedale area? Rosedale Park/Grandmont and the Palmer Woods/Sherwood Forest/University District are pretty large areas where you can ride a bike block after block and not see abandoned structures, and are not surrounded by war zones (except east of Palmer Woods and southwest of Rosedale Park).
The sidewalks turn to ruin just outside Boston Edison (or they did then). Between holes, lifted concrete, overgrown, missing, covered in rubbish, ect, they were pretty impassable on a bike and there was no possibility I would allow kids to go bike riding outside the neighborhood anyway, not even with 400 pounds of mastiffs running alongside.


We discovered North Rosedale park much later when my daughter joined a theater group there. I really loved it. The houses are amazing and well kept. Streets are clean, quiet and beautiful. It is an Oasis in a pretty unappealing general location, but inside the neighborhood, is really cool. I thought about trying to buy my daughter a house there because they were so cheap at the time. Then I stopped for gas just outside the neighborhood and was approached by three characters that promptly changed my mind (one explained he he was just released from a psych ward of a prison and showed me his release papers, one tried to buy my daughter (he offered $10K then said if I would wait for him to come back with a friend, he would give me $40K) - I set off the alarm on my truck then told him I was calling the police - he ran off. One wanted to pump gas for me (all of them did) but ended up falling on me instead, then he threw up next to the gas pump and laid on the ground asking me for money.

While I continued to like the North Rosedale Park Oasis, I cringed every time my daughter drove up there for rehearsal. I always filled up her car when I could, so she would not need to buy gas up there.

I know it got better in the general area, however it takes a lot to dissolve an event like that from your mind.
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Old 05-15-2017, 04:37 PM
 
292 posts, read 205,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
The sidewalks turn to ruin just outside Boston Edison (or they did then). Between holes, lifted concrete, overgrown, missing, covered in rubbish, ect, they were pretty impassable on a bike and there was no possibility I would allow kids to go bike riding outside the neighborhood anyway, not even with 400 pounds of mastiffs running alongside.


We discovered North Rosedale park much later when my daughter joined a theater group there. I really loved it. The houses are amazing and well kept. Streets are clean, quiet and beautiful. It is an Oasis in a pretty unappealing general location, but inside the neighborhood, is really cool. I thought about trying to buy my daughter a house there because they were so cheap at the time. Then I stopped for gas just outside the neighborhood and was approached by three characters that promptly changed my mind (one explained he he was just released from a psych ward of a prison and showed me his release papers, one tried to buy my daughter (he offered $10K then said if I would wait for him to come back with a friend, he would give me $40K) - I set off the alarm on my truck then told him I was calling the police - he ran off. One wanted to pump gas for me (all of them did) but ended up falling on me instead, then he threw up next to the gas pump and laid on the ground asking me for money.

While I continued to like the North Rosedale Park Oasis, I cringed every time my daughter drove up there for rehearsal. I always filled up her car when I could, so she would not need to buy gas up there.

I know it got better in the general area, however it takes a lot to dissolve an event like that from your mind.

Just say you want to live in a homogeneous area{Grosse Ile} where ALL the people look like you, everyone else apparently scares you and your family unless you have to go there{Detroit} to make some money and have fun. And then have the nerves to come on here and act as though you are the official spokesperson for an area that is most unlike where you choose to lay your head. Incredible
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Old 05-15-2017, 09:34 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,299,329 times
Reputation: 1864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
The sidewalks turn to ruin just outside Boston Edison (or they did then). Between holes, lifted concrete, overgrown, missing, covered in rubbish, ect, they were pretty impassable on a bike and there was no possibility I would allow kids to go bike riding outside the neighborhood anyway, not even with 400 pounds of mastiffs running alongside.


We discovered North Rosedale park much later when my daughter joined a theater group there. I really loved it. The houses are amazing and well kept. Streets are clean, quiet and beautiful. It is an Oasis in a pretty unappealing general location, but inside the neighborhood, is really cool. I thought about trying to buy my daughter a house there because they were so cheap at the time. Then I stopped for gas just outside the neighborhood and was approached by three characters that promptly changed my mind (one explained he he was just released from a psych ward of a prison and showed me his release papers, one tried to buy my daughter (he offered $10K then said if I would wait for him to come back with a friend, he would give me $40K) - I set off the alarm on my truck then told him I was calling the police - he ran off. One wanted to pump gas for me (all of them did) but ended up falling on me instead, then he threw up next to the gas pump and laid on the ground asking me for money.

While I continued to like the North Rosedale Park Oasis, I cringed every time my daughter drove up there for rehearsal. I always filled up her car when I could, so she would not need to buy gas up there.

I know it got better in the general area, however it takes a lot to dissolve an event like that from your mind.
I am sorry you had a horrible experience when you went to get gas outside of the neighborhood. That would scare me as well. (South) Rosedale Park is bordered by BRIGHTMOOR to the south/southwest, so if that is where you were, then it is understandable.

But North Rosedale Park is not an oasis.

To the south is (South) Rosedale Park
Google Earth Streetview

To the southeast is Grandmont
Google Earth Streetview

To the south of (South) Rosedale Park is Grandmont #1 (houses are not as architecturally distinct)
Google Earth Streetview

All of these communities have predominantly larger, elegant houses that are well taken care of and residents have great community pride. Together these communities hold events such as the Grandmont-Rosedale Open House that takes places annually, the first weekend of May (You can tour houses that are for sale and take a bus tour of the different neighborhoods), as well as a neighborhood garage sale and a weekly farmer's market. I repeat, North Rosedale Park is not an oasis.

Last edited by usroute10; 05-15-2017 at 09:47 PM..
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