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Yup. The post above is a big reason I believe Detroit is great for young people, but still quite terrible for families. Whether this is real or not, it is my perception and perception is important. Sure we could put our kids in charters or drive them to school of choice in the suburbs, but then they come home and I wouldn't trust an 8 year old riding his bike around a nice pocket of Detroit, bordering the hood. It is far easier to live in a more modest house, while trusting my kid can walk go the park and have no issues.
Detroit may change, but at the moment it isn't family friendly. Even the upscale parts, which are mostly concentrated around downtown, aren't family friendly, as riding One's bike around Midtown or Downtown isn't exactly without its dangers (mostly traffic related). Detroit is incredible for young singles or couples without children, but it's a terrible place to raise a family, especially when the City is surrounded by an abundance of affordable and modest to upscale suburbs.
Well tbh I think Manhattan is by far the best place to live in the entire NYC metro area but a terrible place to raise a family. Like a few of you had already said before, it depends on your personal situation.
And CJ in case you were wondering. It's probably more or less the same thing your kids do now in Grosse Isle. Hang out with friends, go to the mall, play basketball, go to parties, ride bikes, go to the movies, ect. My parents made it a point to know who I hung around and meeting their parents, making sure it was clear where I could and could not go by myself, being at the house or at least my friends house before the streetlights came on, being strict on knowing where I was at all times, if there is any sign of danger (fights/ arguments/ lots of police, ect) get away from the area, also making it clear that if I do anything stupid I'm sitting in jail until they let me out. I had to play by these same rules living in Kalamazoo as well. In turn I'm in school, have a job, never been arrested, never been shot at, ect.
On the flip side I seen kids from the suburbs who had parents that thought they would be fine, end up getting themselves into trouble or hurt by hanging around the wrong crowd, even in the Kalamazoo area. And I know plenty of people who turned out bad that was my friends as well. I had a bestfriend who my mom knew for years that I couldn't hang around anymore because he wanted to be in the streets. He ended up catching 2 felonies before he turned 18.
As for Boston-Edison... yea no. That place is surrounded by Linwood-Dexter and HP. It's way too small. Now Rosedale Park or something would have been plenty of area for them to ride their bike around, just don't go too far west. Other than that it's mostly stable working class areas for a few miles. I've walked that area off of Schoolcraft quite a few times myself, there is always people and kids outside.
Well tbh I think Manhattan is by far the best place to live in the entire NYC metro area but a terrible place to raise a family. Like a few of you had already said before, it depends on your personal situation.
And CJ in case you were wondering. It's probably more or less the same thing your kids do now in Grosse Isle. Hang out with friends, go to the mall, play basketball, go to parties, ride bikes, go to the movies, ect. My parents made it a point to know who I hung around and meeting their parents, making sure it was clear where I could and could not go by myself, being at the house or at least my friends house before the streetlights came on, being strict on knowing where I was at all times, if there is any sign of danger (fights/ arguments/ lots of police, ect) get away from the area, also making it clear that if I do anything stupid I'm sitting in jail until they let me out. I had to play by these same rules living in Kalamazoo as well. In turn I'm in school, have a job, never been arrested, never been shot at, ect.
On the flip side I seen kids from the suburbs who had parents that thought they would be fine, end up getting themselves into trouble or hurt by hanging around the wrong crowd, even in the Kalamazoo area. And I know plenty of people who turned out bad that was my friends as well. I had a bestfriend who my mom knew for years that I couldn't hang around anymore because he wanted to be in the streets. He ended up catching 2 felonies before he turned 18.
As for Boston-Edison... yea no. That place is surrounded by Linwood-Dexter and HP. It's way too small. Now Rosedale Park or something would have been plenty of area for them to ride their bike around, just don't go too far west. Other than that it's mostly stable working class areas for a few miles. I've walked that area off of Schoolcraft quite a few times myself, there is always people and kids outside.
This sounds like you feel that the actual neighborhoods you and some friends grew up in, didn't make the biggest difference, in terms of who got into trouble and who kept their noses clean? I would really like to hear more about it. I have my own ideas, but I would like to hear yours. I don't think it's entirely a thread hijack, as it does relate to what makes for a great place to live.
• Best city for young singles: Detroit – Downtown, Midtown, East Riverfront, Corktown, New Center, Eastern Market, “the Villages”, Southwest – no other place comes close, including Ann Arbor
• Best city for young families: Grosse Pointes, proximity to Detroit’s core, beautiful, vintage housing stock, private lakefront parks and beaches, school ranging from good to elite.
• Best city for older families: Novi – shopping galore and entertainment options for the teens, great schools, big and newer houses, safety
• Best city for retirees: Madison Heights, within a 20-minute drive of Beaumont, Henry Ford Hospitals, DMC/Veterans Hospital. Safety, several SMART bus routes. inexpensive housing
• Most improved city since 2000: ?????
• Most improvable, promising city going forward: Dearborn – two “downtown” districts, good housing stock and beautiful neighborhoods, good location, freeway access, near to DTW, Henry Ford/Greenfield Village, FoMoCo is investing in Fairlane Mall and downtown west Dearborn
• Most desirable "Affordable" city: Commerce Township – newer housing, safe, lakes galore, good Walled Lake and Huron Valley Schools, Proud Lake Recreation Area
• Most Down-to-Earth "high-income" city: Rochester Hills – great schools, proximity to paved trails and large recreation areas/parks, close to downtowns
Rochester and Pontiac for walkable districts, hills instead of flat boring landscape, Oakland University, close to Somerset and Great Lakes Crossing, events at Meadowbrook, near to Cranbrook, I-75/M-59 access, decently close to Pine Knob (DTE Energy Theater and downhill skiing)
• Best inner-ring suburb: Royal Oak – downtown, farmer’s market, zoo, charming neighborhoods
• Best outer-ring suburb: Northville – schools, wealth, Maybury State Park, Hines Drive, cute downtown
• Best exurb: Canton – vast retail, newer & upscale housing, great schools, proximity to Ypsi/Ann Arbor
Overall, best place to live in the entire metro: Ann Arbor – culture amenities of small city without the crime and poor schools of a city. Schools, racial diversity, downtown, and recreation opportunities are a huge positive. Educated populace.
Last edited by usroute10; 05-01-2017 at 10:14 PM..
On that subject, I'll say it is true that there are screwups/hoods in the rich suburbs just like there are bright and talented people in the hood. I get the feeling though that personal safety is more of an issue in lower income communities compared to rich suburbs. Writer Jimmy Breslin illustrates this issue Leaving Los Angeles: Good-bye to Gangs, Drugs, Poverty, Violence, etc.
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Dies the victim, dies the city. Nobody flees New York because of accounting malpractice. People run from murder and fire. Those who remain express their fear in words of anger.
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Originally Posted by mgkeith
This sounds like you feel that the actual neighborhoods you and some friends grew up in, didn't make the biggest difference, in terms of who got into trouble and who kept their noses clean? I would really like to hear more about it. I have my own ideas, but I would like to hear yours. I don't think it's entirely a thread hijack, as it does relate to what makes for a great place to live.
For a short time (a few of weeks) we really wanted to make living in Detroit workable. The house we fond in Boston Edison neighborhood was beyond phenomenal. We were moving from a problem ridden city in California, so we knew how to deal with crime issues. Schools were manageable with Renaissance, Detroit School of the Arts and Cass Tech all viable options. There were very good and more or less affordable private school options for lower grades.
The killer was, where would the kids go and what would they do when not in school? Where would they play with friends? ride their bikes? Where could they go on their own to learn to be independent and responsible without mom or dad hovering around? The only answer we could find was inside the gargantuan house were were looking at. Otherwise, there was nowhere. That was the killer for us. There were other issues playing against the magnificent house option, a big one of which is we had been there done that with the whole urban pioneering thing - it was fun and interesting, but we wanted something different (but that house!). as soon as we focused on the where to hang out/play issue, we were done. It wasn't schools, schools were work aroundable. This issue killed the idea for us. (of course we never got tot hepoint of looking at property taxes or how to heat that giant house)
These are the reasons that a true renaissance for Detroit will not happen. Downtown, yes, of course. Because there will always be young people who will want to live down there to party, eat, etc. But once those young people start having kids, they soon realize that the cool city they moved to 5 years prior is only cool for people without kids. The schools are horrible. Even excellent Detroit schools are more like average schools in the suburbs. There's nowhere for kids to be kids and ride their bikes, play outside, etc.
• Most improvable, promising city going forward: Dearborn – two “downtown” districts, good housing stock and beautiful neighborhoods, good location, freeway access, near to DTW, Henry Ford/Greenfield Village, FoMoCo is investing in Fairlane Mall and downtown west Dearborn
• Most Down-to-Earth "high-income" city: Rochester Hills – great schools, proximity to paved trails and large recreation areas/parks, close to downtowns
Rochester and Pontiac for walkable districts, hills instead of flat boring landscape, Oakland University, close to Somerset and Great Lakes Crossing, events at Meadowbrook, near to Cranbrook, I-75/M-59 access, decently close to Pine Knob (DTE Energy Theater and downhill skiing)
Interesting point about Dearborn. It arguably does have potential. It does not have much int he way of a architecturally pleasing/quaint downtown center but that does not mean they cant make one. Dearborn has a lot of neat amenities other towns lack: A symphony, a well established community theater, two colleges.. .
It is funny how different perceptions are about "down to earth." To me, Rochester Hills would make the top three to five least down to earth cities in the Metro. While it does have many of the amenities listed, the pretentiousness/KUWTJ materialism kept us from considering RH as an option for our family, despite our closest friends in Michgian living there. It is also a bit too new McMansion/chain store oriented for our tastes, but for that lifestyle, it is a really nice place to raise a family (unless you want a down to earth place.) Yes you can drive to Rochester City and walk around, but pretty much every city can say there is a nice walk-able place within driving distance. The hills are awesome, but I would not describe forests, lakes, or rivers/streams as "flat boring"landscape. Maybe if you are comparing the way south suburbs, there are some flat and boring areas (a few places were basically farmland, but not sure they qaulify as flat and boring. Rochester Hills is a great place for families tolerant of or looking for suburban sprawl. However "down to earth"is clearly a subjective concept and we obviously have 180 degree different definitions or understandings of that concept. Just out of curiosity, do you consider Birmingham to be down to earth? Novi?
All Detroit Public Schools are not bad either. There are actually some really decent ones. And all of Detroit's nice neighborhoods aren't guarded with private patrols like Palmer Woods. Hell, most of them aren't. They might not be as safe as Palmer Woods but they aren't war zones either.
I love these conversation about Detroit School being terrible but people forget about schools such as Renaissance High School (top school in the state). It is true majority of DPS schools are not great & not comparable to Birmingham, Troy, Bloomfield. But there are several average 6/10 schools in Detroit.
However the most important benefit of DPS education is free college tuition. Detroit promise is amazing program that is worth dealing with sh1tty school district. People complain about college tuition & high cost. If you graduate from DPS there are plenty of university available to students at free of cost.
Rennaissaince has never been the top school in the state. It has been in the top ten or 20, but not recently I do nto think (maybe top 20). Regardless its students do very well on test scores. I like Renaissance a lot. the kids were noticeably more polite than most other schools we visited.
The Detroit promise is primarily for community college/trade school. For Universities it is limited, requires certain test scores and gpa, and is need based. It is unclear whether the community college coverage is need based. It also appears to be un or under funded. The detroit promise covers what is left over - not covered after other forms of aid are applied. Still it is a great program that will provide opportunities for some students who otherwise might not be bale to attend college or trade school.
However it is not a reason for parents to put their kids in Detroit schools rather than a good school in the suburbs. Tuition help does not make up for being unable to competitively educate your kids. When teacehrs have to spend all of their time attempting to maintain discipline or dealing with issues like inability to read or at younger ages tie shoes, brush teeth etc., they cannot teach the necessary information. While this is a great program form kids who do learn anough to get into and graduate from rennaissance, cass tech or DSA, it does nothing really to solve the overall problems with the schools.
Still, it is a good start towards finding solutions to the seemingly insolveable public school problem
Funding ti the biggest problem. Like the Michigan (broken) promise, or the National Merit Scholarship it does little good to "win" or "earn" such a scholarship if there is no money. Looks good on your resume though.
This sounds like you feel that the actual neighborhoods you and some friends grew up in, didn't make the biggest difference, in terms of who got into trouble and who kept their noses clean? I would really like to hear more about it. I have my own ideas, but I would like to hear yours. I don't think it's entirely a thread hijack, as it does relate to what makes for a great place to live.
It's easier to get into trouble, but it isn't a deal breaker by any means. Just like the schools systems, parenting plays a bigger part in a child's success. And I'm sure any DPS school teacher or DPD officer can back me up on this, if parents had more control over their kids crime would go down alot and more people would be graduating. When I was in middle school, alot of my classmates would be out past freaking midnight on a school night. And you could make a strong correlation between those kids and the kids causing most of the trouble in the schools and getting sent to juvenile homes and being in gangs, ect.
I met this dude last year (he's studying abroad in Tokyo now) he is going for his masters right now and already knows how to build jet engines, the dude had the highest test score at our plant, and he speaks 3 different languages. Most people think he's some suburban black kid when they first meet him but you should see the expressions on everyone's face when they find out he graduated from Kettering high school and grew up within walking distance of that school. Yet he is smarter and more disciplined than most suburban kids.
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There's nowhere for kids to be kids and ride their bikes, play outside, etc.
Where do kids play in Canton? or Macomb? or Ferndale?
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I love these conversation about Detroit School being terrible but people forget about schools such as Renaissance High School (top school in the state). It is true majority of DPS schools are not great & not comparable to Birmingham, Troy, Bloomfield. But there are several average 6/10 schools in Detroit.
However the most important benefit of DPS education is free college tuition. Detroit promise is amazing program that is worth dealing with sh1tty school district. People complain about college tuition & high cost. If you graduate from DPS there are plenty of university available to students at free of cost.
YESSS! Thanks for bringing that up. I forgot about this. This alone will probably be a deal breaker for my kids and reinforces my choice even more. Even if I have to drive 20 min to take them to school.
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