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Old 05-26-2017, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,800,902 times
Reputation: 2624

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie View Post
Detroit has an amazing freeway system.

Outside of the 375, I think every freeway is important and useful. The 96 feels a bit over-built and the 75 definitely feels underbuilt (though they're working on that), but bias-aside I believe Detroit has one of the best large-metro freeway systems in the nation, which is exactly why public transit is so crappy here. Your typical commuter in Novi or New Baltimore can still get to downtown in 45 minutes most days, so what possible need do they need a rail or BRT?
375 and the Davidson is completely pointless. Southfield freeway and the lodge gets utilized quite a bit more and they take the load off of 75, 94, and 96, but they don't go anymore than a few miles.
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Old 05-26-2017, 12:08 PM
 
2,994 posts, read 3,145,785 times
Reputation: 2583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers View Post
A giant mass transit system is never happening in Detroit. Never. Not ever. The half-baked RTA plan would have required a massive tax subsidy with even the rosiest of predictions and would have benefited a tiny fraction of residents. People here have no desire to have their taxes increase for a hipster wet dream that will end up being an albatross on the taxpayers. It's the Motor City. Get used to it or move to whatever you consider to be a connected-ness city.
Giant mass transit system? Not necessarily. Decent for a city Detroit's size should be the more immediate goal, which means some kind of true rapid transit and 1 or 2 regional rail lines, like the planned New Center-to-Ann Arbor route.... Your mentality, which obviously is shared by the powers that be in Greater Detroit, is a prescription for perpetual mediocrity and, on many levels, failure. Detroiters have got to get out of the fantasy that the City can be successful freeways alone. Ain't happenin'. To quote you: get used to it.
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Old 05-26-2017, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,800,902 times
Reputation: 2624
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
Giant mass transit system? Not necessarily. Decent for a city Detroit's size -- which means some kind of true rapid transit and 1 or 2 regional rail lines, like the planned New Center-to-Ann Arbor route.... Your mentality, which obviously is shared by the powers that be in Greater Detroit, is a prescription for perpetual mediocrity and, on many levels, failure. Detroiters have got to get out of the fantasy that the City can be successful freeways alone. Ain't happenin'. To quote you: get used to it.
On the bright side, mentalities like that are slowly fading away around here.
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Old 05-26-2017, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Chicago
939 posts, read 842,656 times
Reputation: 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers View Post
A giant mass transit system is never happening in Detroit. Never. Not ever. The half-baked RTA plan would have required a massive tax subsidy with even the rosiest of predictions and would have benefited a tiny fraction of residents. People here have no desire to have their taxes increase for a hipster wet dream that will end up being an albatross on the taxpayers. It's the Motor City. Get used to it or move to whatever you consider to be a connected-ness city.
I was 60% sure I was moving to Chicago when my lease expired before I read this... it's up to 75% now.
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Old 05-26-2017, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,786 posts, read 1,930,463 times
Reputation: 3554
Yeahh, the perspective of "Get used to it or move" is a great way to assure a place dies. This is why successful cities are generally progressive. They embrace the future and work toward what is good for tomorrow. Even politically-right metros like Salt Lake City and Mesa have functional mass transit programs including light rail, because they actively plan for the future. Detroit spent literally generations planning for the past and it got left behind. Today it seems to be changing for the better, but there remain those who don't want this.

Just remember today's hipsters are tomorrow successful entrepreneurs and public policy makers. Seven or so years ago I was that bum slack-lining outside a coffee shop and crashing on my friend's couch while I figured out what I wanted to do with life, but today I'm just some dude with a family. Kids do grow up. Create an environment which attracts them and they'll stick around. The RTA had flaws, even I can admit that. When the retool it for ballot measure in 2018 or 2020 it'll pass, especially if the big ticket elections have liberals that actually excite people. Clinton was a disaster for progressive agendas.
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Old 05-26-2017, 05:46 PM
 
2,994 posts, read 3,145,785 times
Reputation: 2583
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
On the bright side, mentalities like that are slowly fading away around here.
I hear you MS313... just not fast enough.
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Old 05-26-2017, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,800,902 times
Reputation: 2624
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
I hear you MS313... just not fast enough.
Agreed.
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Old 05-26-2017, 11:51 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,292,617 times
Reputation: 1864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers View Post
A giant mass transit system is never happening in Detroit. Never. Not ever. The half-baked RTA plan would have required a massive tax subsidy with even the rosiest of predictions and would have benefited a tiny fraction of residents. People here have no desire to have their taxes increase for a hipster wet dream that will end up being an albatross on the taxpayers. It's the Motor City. Get used to it or move to whatever you consider to be a connected-ness city.
Large world class metro areas give people options for transportation and lifestyles. Detroit area is limited in that doesn't offer the urban lifestyle, nor the transportation options. Sometimes, rail transit is the more efficient way to transport people - especially to/from high-density areas like downtown and midtown areas that keep adding businesses and residents.

I have already mentioned to YOU specifically that sprawled out cities like Dallas, Charlotte, LA, Atlanta, etc have multiple rapid transit lines, and they are no less more built around the automobile than we are - but they provide options while we limit ourselves - and our potential.

I have also told you that this region's population has been stagnant since the 1970 census. (1) Attitudes like yours, (2) turning your backs on the city, and (3) depending on a single volatile industry that is prone to peaking and crashing, has resulted in this stagnation.

Last edited by usroute10; 05-27-2017 at 12:01 AM..
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Old 05-27-2017, 10:50 AM
 
124 posts, read 108,160 times
Reputation: 163
Sunbelt cities provide options? hahahhaha

That's a funny joke.
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Old 05-27-2017, 12:03 PM
 
2,994 posts, read 3,145,785 times
Reputation: 2583
Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
Large world class metro areas give people options for transportation and lifestyles. Detroit area is limited in that doesn't offer the urban lifestyle, nor the transportation options. Sometimes, rail transit is the more efficient way to transport people - especially to/from high-density areas like downtown and midtown areas that keep adding businesses and residents.

I have already mentioned to YOU specifically that sprawled out cities like Dallas, Charlotte, LA, Atlanta, etc have multiple rapid transit lines, and they are no less more built around the automobile than we are - but they provide options while we limit ourselves - and our potential.

I have also told you that this region's population has been stagnant since the 1970 census. (1) Attitudes like yours, (2) turning your backs on the city, and (3) depending on a single volatile industry that is prone to peaking and crashing, has resulted in this stagnation.
Yes, and despite the sprawling, pre-existing nature of Dallas, Charlotte, LA, Atlanta and, now, Denver, each of these cities are building up/have built up dense urbanized TOD areas at various new rapid transit stations... In the space of 20 years, downtown LA has gone from a small dull downtown to a bustling, dense, pedestrian-friendly downtown with mid-rise apartment and condo buildings sprouting up all over... much of this stimulated by their growing rapid transit system... But while LA was debating whether to build rail in the 1980s there were naysayers like Arthur Digby Sellers who insisted rapid transit would be a boondoggle; that it was be a failure and a waste of taxpayer money; that LA was, and always would be, a freeway city...

... well, people like that have disappeared and Angelenos are loving their new, walkable LA... LA matured, grew up and became a real, modern, healthy city... Will Detroit?
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