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Old 05-27-2017, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
27,759 posts, read 65,606,514 times
Reputation: 32943

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Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
I have also told you that this region's population has been stagnant since the 1970 census. (1) Attitudes like yours, (2) turning your backs on the city, and (3) depending on a single volatile industry that is prone to peaking and crashing, has resulted in this stagnation.
Stagnant is not necessarily bad. At least not as to numbers of people. Growth for growths sake is detrimental to a city. Frankly if Detroit was like Pheonix, Houston, or like Denver is becomming, it would not interest me. Not to say cram packed sterile people storage is bad, it just is not for me. I like Detroits lack of crammed in masses pushing and shoving their way through life. Yes, it can probably absorb another half million people before getting truly crowded, but I like tthe clmer, more casual atmosphere it has. Enough people to be interesting, but not a mob scene.

However Detroit's population is not stagnant. The population has changed significantly in the past ten years. Change does not necessarily mean growth and change is not stagnation.
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Old 05-27-2017, 08:26 PM
 
124 posts, read 108,285 times
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Growth is steady right now, and the big three are transitioning into transportation tech companies, not just manufacturers.

The area is filled with other industries, it's not nearly the "one industry" town it's said to be.
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Old 05-28-2017, 07:16 AM
 
125 posts, read 133,079 times
Reputation: 158
A short film about Detroit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1UDoUQ-Ius
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Old 05-30-2017, 07:05 AM
 
2,173 posts, read 2,817,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie View Post
Yeahh, the perspective of "Get used to it or move" is a great way to assure a place dies. This is why successful cities are generally progressive. They embrace the future and work toward what is good for tomorrow. Even politically-right metros like Salt Lake City and Mesa have functional mass transit programs including light rail, because they actively plan for the future. Detroit spent literally generations planning for the past and it got left behind. Today it seems to be changing for the better, but there remain those who don't want this.

Just remember today's hipsters are tomorrow successful entrepreneurs and public policy makers. Seven or so years ago I was that bum slack-lining outside a coffee shop and crashing on my friend's couch while I figured out what I wanted to do with life, but today I'm just some dude with a family. Kids do grow up. Create an environment which attracts them and they'll stick around. The RTA had flaws, even I can admit that. When the retool it for ballot measure in 2018 or 2020 it'll pass, especially if the big ticket elections have liberals that actually excite people. Clinton was a disaster for progressive agendas.
Sorry, but I don't view 19th century technology and infrastructure as "progressive."
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Old 05-30-2017, 07:06 AM
 
2,173 posts, read 2,817,432 times
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Originally Posted by brodie734 View Post
I was 60% sure I was moving to Chicago when my lease expired before I read this... it's up to 75% now.
Making a decision to move based on what some guy on the internet said is pretty pathetic. But...safe travels!
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Old 05-30-2017, 07:11 AM
 
2,173 posts, read 2,817,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
Large world class metro areas give people options for transportation and lifestyles. Detroit area is limited in that doesn't offer the urban lifestyle, nor the transportation options. Sometimes, rail transit is the more efficient way to transport people - especially to/from high-density areas like downtown and midtown areas that keep adding businesses and residents.

I have already mentioned to YOU specifically that sprawled out cities like Dallas, Charlotte, LA, Atlanta, etc have multiple rapid transit lines, and they are no less more built around the automobile than we are - but they provide options while we limit ourselves - and our potential.

I have also told you that this region's population has been stagnant since the 1970 census. (1) Attitudes like yours, (2) turning your backs on the city, and (3) depending on a single volatile industry that is prone to peaking and crashing, has resulted in this stagnation.
1. The population of the Rust Belt (not just Metro Detroit) has been stagnant because of enormous shifts in the manufacturing economy consistent across the rust belt. It wasn't because of mass transit. Not sure if you were paying attenting, but we just had an entire presidential election hinge on this topic.

2. The single volatile industry still happens to be one of the largest in the world. You wouldn't like this area very much if it went away. What do you suggest we replace it with? Filmmaking? Craft cocktails?
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Old 05-30-2017, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Chicago
939 posts, read 844,047 times
Reputation: 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers View Post
Making a decision to move based on what some guy on the internet said is pretty pathetic. But...safe travels!
I mean, I know your attitude all too well... it's why I was 60% there to begin with. You just reminded me that it was pervasive, even in spaces like CD where people generally have a pretty solid grasp on the intrinsic values of transit to creating an urban space.
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Old 05-30-2017, 11:07 AM
 
3,002 posts, read 3,149,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers View Post
Sorry, but I don't view 19th century technology and infrastructure as "progressive."
Well until you can prefect something akin to the Transporter Room in Star Trek, rail rapid transit is still the best method of moving large masses of people inside urban areas, particularly to/from their CBDs. And in case you hadn't noticed, following Henry Ford's mass production of cars and America's so called "love affair" with all things related to them -- like the urban freeways, malls and big box stores of the 1950s and 60s -- cities like Detroit built freeways that carved up neighborhoods and made human movement as well as human contact much less convenient. It's no coincident that smart urban planners have used Detroit as the poster child for what not to do when realizing that those "old fashioned" methods of mass transit, density and walkability are the most desirable, which is why cities from Atlanta to LA to Denver to Dallas have/are expanding rapid transit. So in the end, 19th Century cities like New York, Boston and Chicago inadvertently got it right when rail transit was all cities had in terms of moving large numbers of people. Nowadays people long for those kind of "Main Street" cities once again. Strip shopping, big boxes, malls and freeways are totally yesterday.

But you want to return to the 1950s and 60s, I'm sure Mr. Spock can build a time machine for you.
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Old 05-30-2017, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
27,759 posts, read 65,606,514 times
Reputation: 32943
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
Well until you can prefect something akin to the Transporter Room in Star Trek, rail rapid transit is still the best method of moving large masses of people inside urban areas, particularly to/from their CBDs. And in case you hadn't noticed, following Henry Ford's mass production of cars and America's so called "love affair" with all things related to them -- like the urban freeways, malls and big box stores of the 1950s and 60s -- cities like Detroit built freeways that carved up neighborhoods and made human movement as well as human contact much less convenient. It's no coincident that smart urban planners have used Detroit as the poster child for what not to do when realizing that those "old fashioned" methods of mass transit, density and walkability are the most desirable, which is why cities from Atlanta to LA to Denver to Dallas have/are expanding rapid transit. So in the end, 19th Century cities like New York, Boston and Chicago inadvertently got it right when rail transit was all cities had in terms of moving large numbers of people. Nowadays people long for those kind of "Main Street" cities once again. Strip shopping, big boxes, malls and freeways are totally yesterday.

But you want to return to the 1950s and 60s, I'm sure Mr. Spock can build a time machine for you.
Detroit had a nice well laid out street car system. The Auto MFGs and tire companies pressured the government to tear it out. They wanted people driving to and from the suburbs and around town. While it worked to build the American Auto industry to be the leading industry in the world for a time, it was very damaging to Detroit and other cities as well. I think Q line was intended to try to replicate part of the streetcar system and in fact, they had to tear out buried street car tracks to install the current system.
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Old 05-30-2017, 01:20 PM
 
2,173 posts, read 2,817,432 times
Reputation: 2104
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
Well until you can prefect something akin to the Transporter Room in Star Trek, rail rapid transit is still the best method of moving large masses of people inside urban areas, particularly to/from their CBDs. And in case you hadn't noticed, following Henry Ford's mass production of cars and America's so called "love affair" with all things related to them -- like the urban freeways, malls and big box stores of the 1950s and 60s -- cities like Detroit built freeways that carved up neighborhoods and made human movement as well as human contact much less convenient. It's no coincident that smart urban planners have used Detroit as the poster child for what not to do when realizing that those "old fashioned" methods of mass transit, density and walkability are the most desirable, which is why cities from Atlanta to LA to Denver to Dallas have/are expanding rapid transit. So in the end, 19th Century cities like New York, Boston and Chicago inadvertently got it right when rail transit was all cities had in terms of moving large numbers of people. Nowadays people long for those kind of "Main Street" cities once again. Strip shopping, big boxes, malls and freeways are totally yesterday.

But you want to return to the 1950s and 60s, I'm sure Mr. Spock can build a time machine for you.
Train systems are bleeding cities dry in what you consider to be "model" cities: MTA is losing money and headed to financial ruin - NY Daily News

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/0...way-ridership/

Sorry, but money losing train systems are "totally yesterday." That giant sucking sound you hear in cities is ride sharing apps taking fares away from mass transit systems. Why? Because mass transit is a huge pain and inconvenience even in the aforementioned cities. People want the convenience of rise sharing and soon to be autonomous vehicles. The future of mobility is in ride sharing technology and autonomous vehicles being developed right here in old backwards Detroit.
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