General Living in Michigan Qs (Detroit, Livonia: real estate, 2014, apartment)

[taylor-2017]

We are considering a job offer in Troy, MI. Job is great—only problem it’s in Michigan. I hear the horror stories about Detroit and crime and I hope it can’t be as bad as the rumors. I flew out with my husband for his job interview and we drove around various suburbs to get a feel for the area.

Things I’m curious about:
Roads— are there some cities/suburbs that are better/worse at snow removal and repaving? I would hope that most suburbs are on point with snow plowing/pre-treating roads. When driving around roads were horrible and then all of a sudden it would be newly paved for a stretch before becoming rough again.

weather—I can handle cold and snow but I need sunshine on a regular basis (I suffer from severe depression that is exacerbated by prolonged gray, dreary weather)

rentals — is it difficult to find a rental? ideally, we would like to rent a place with a garage and no more than $1700/mo while looking for a place to buy.

crime -- it seems as though much of the crime in the "safe" areas is property and vehicle theft. is this accurate?

Due to my struggles with depression we are wondering if this area is a good fit for us, even in the short term (we would be looking to stay approx 5 years, or until my husband is ready for the next step up on his career path). Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Geo-Aggie]

Problem? Hah! I believe you're sadly mistaken. This is a great thing, and Michigan is a fantastic state.

Roads:
According to the U.S. Department of Transportation's 2016 survey, 38% of Michigan roads are in poor to mediocre condition. That sounds bad, but this actually means Michigan is tied for 10th best roads in the nation. They are roughly about the same condition as Texas and Tennessee. There are some municipalities (Detroit and Southfield come to mind, immediately) that have some horrible roads that are barely passable, and 696 is definitely in need of reconstruction through Macomb County, but overall Michigan roads are not bad.

Weather:
The Upper Midwest is cold. There's really no way around that. That being said, the Lower Penensuila of Michigan is not even close to as bad as Minnesota or Wisconsin. MLive ran an interesting report as to why, but the summary is that being surrounded by lakes makes the onset of winter come much slower. People here think it snows a lot, it doesn't. At least not compared to what I'm used to. We get maybe 2 big storms a year and statistically the metro averages something like 25" of snow all year - which isn't much compared to truly snowy areas. I will warn you that we do have a lot of clouds and a lot of fog. Seasonal Affective Disorder, eh? Yeah, I've actually struggled with that myself. I will say that believe last year we had only 2 sunny days in January, but then February was almost all sunny days. In the two winters I've spent here I've not had near the issue with it that I did in Salt Lake City, and the other 3 seasons of the year rarely have consecutive days with no sun. Lots of partly cloudy days, but very few gray days like you'd find in SF or Seattle.

Rentals:
Depends on where you want to be and how picky you are, but yes you can find something in that range near Troy. I was renting a 3 BR house (no garage) in Royal Oak for $1300. Typical rental houses there would run in the $1500-2000 range.

Crime:
Outside of the Neighborhoods of Detroit, Inkster, River Rouge, and maybe Pontiac, Metro Detroit is surprisingly safe. I live 3 miles from the border of Detroit, but I have no reservation about going for a walk at night. My wife often jogs alone after sundown. Most suburbs and Greater Downtown Detroit are surprisingly safe, based on what the media likes to report about Detroit. Troy and its neighbors are all safe.

[Coldjensens]

Roads As to snow rmeoval, yes, some places are better than others., It would be difficult for anyone to give you a really meaningful comparison, Detroit is pretty terrible about snow removal, but getting better, Most snow removal and road maintenance is by the County Freeways are State We have better roads than some states, but the big difference is the roads in populated areas are terrible while the roads in rual areas are awesome It is the opposite in many other states Thus if you visit California you will think they have great roads, but on average, they have wrose roads than us, just their roads are bad in places few people go You are going to hit potholes You will learn on some roads to drive slowly and stay in the middle of the road, Most freeways are in decent condition and should improve they just passed a new gat tax that will provide about 1/3 of what they need to fix the roads and bridges 1/3 may not seem like much, but it will make a significant difference that you will notice


weather—The cold is not bad and it seems to get warmer each winter However michigan is one of the least sunny places in the USA, To combat SAD you need to get out every time it is sunny, every time no matter what, you also need a couple of florida vacations Many Michiganders make winter trips to florida sometime two or three Heavy cardio exercise also helps a lot Exercise procudes dopamine which combats depression

rentals — Not terribly hard $1700 will get you a decent 2br ampartment and maybe a small house, depending on the area It may get you a 3 br apartment in many places maybe even a 3br house again depends on the area

crime -- Mosy Michigan suburbs are extremely safe crimewise, Crime you hear aout is in Detroit and it mostly impacts people who buy or sell guns sex or drugs and their families Dont do those things and be careful which parts of Detroit you visit and you are unlikely to experience crime Some suburbs people do nto btoher locking their doors The crime hysteria about Detroit is generated by exaggerated reports in the media and water cooler talk in offices The only parts of detroit you are likely to visit (Downtown and Mid-town) are as safe as any major city in the US and are very fun and plasant places filled mostly with college kids and young hipsters

While this is a great place to live and one of the top five most beautiful states, it is not sunny If you take up a sport so you get lots of exercise get out whenever the sun peeks out in the fall or winter and take a trip or three to florida in the winter you will probably be fine however no one can guess how much sun you need

If sunshine is critical try Yuma Arizona or San Diego California Both are super sunny and Yuma is very affordable

Sorry the periood button is missing on my computer, but you can probably figure where they belong

[taylor-2017]

Thanks for the reply and input.

It's funny you mention roads as bad as Texas b/c one person at the potential new company was from Huston and said the roads there are just as bad as Detroit.

My depression is actually clinical and I find that I can avoid taking medication if I have sun. I don't need it every day but I do need sun regularly to avoid taking anti-depressants (which i fought hard to very hard to get off of). I can handle the cold and even snow. Partly cloudy is fine as long as the sun peeks out.

snow removal
I have heard that commuting is worse in winter. Is this due to crappy roads, snow, or both? I would assume they are good at plowing the main roads and even secondary streets. I do worry that with the area being so flat the snow would blow and cause drifting.

My husband liked the Royal Oak area but I was concerned it was too close to 696 (we heard its safest to stay above 696).

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

Roads:
According to the U.S. Department of Transportation's 2016 survey, 38% of Michigan roads are in poor to mediocre condition. That sounds bad, but this actually means Michigan is tied for 10th best roads in the nation. They are roughly about the same condition as Texas and Tennessee. There are some municipalities (Detroit and Southfield come to mind, immediately) that have some horrible roads that are barely passable, and 696 is definitely in need of reconstruction through Macomb County, but overall Michigan roads are not bad.

It feels like a lot of those 38% of poor roads are the most popular commuting routes like I-75 and 696. I don't know whether they haven't been repaved yet because of the sheer volume and few alternates or lack of funding (well, 75 is in the process of being repaved and widened but that'll take a whole decade) but it does feel like the perception of bad roads would be skewed by that fact.

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by taylor-2017

Thanks for the reply and input.

It's funny you mention roads as bad as Texas b/c one person at the potential new company was from Huston and said the roads there are just as bad as Detroit.

My depression is actually clinical and I find that I can avoid taking medication if I have sun. I don't need it every day but I do need sun regularly to avoid taking anti-depressants (which i fought hard to very hard to get off of). I can handle the cold and even snow. Partly cloudy is fine as long as the sun peeks out.

snow removal
I have heard that commuting is worse in winter. Is this due to crappy roads, snow, or both? I would assume they are good at plowing the main roads and even secondary streets. I do worry that with the area being so flat the snow would blow and cause drifting.

My husband liked the Royal Oak area but I was concerned it was too close to 696 (we heard its safest to stay above 696).

Please take your "We Heard" book and throw it away That is all hogwash I live in one of the niceset communities in Detroit Metro and it is also the safest place in michigan and guess what, it is about 30 miles south of 696 Yup all the way on the toher side of the City and then some

South Lyon, Northville, Novi, Plymouth all south of 696 and some of our best communities (South Lyon is number 2 safest) Also nice, Canton, Livonia, Trenton, Huron Township, farmngton, Decent and quite safe: Woodhaven, Southfield, Wyandotte, Brownstown, New Boston, Riverview, Ferndale, Dearborn (and no, Dearborn is NOT under Sharia law regardless of what you "heard"

Grosse Pointe is one of our nicest suburbs with great schools and it is surrounded by Detroit Defintiely south of 696 and the peole who are telling you this hogwash can only wish they lived in Grosse Poine

There are people who think the world turns around North Oakland County, it doesnt If you let the gossip and lie mongers control your decision you will defeinitely not come here

Naturally commuting is slower in winter When it is slippery you need to slow down They remove snow pretty quickly in most places, but they cannot remove it while it is still falling and sheet ice can be hard to remove if it is super cold and you must go very slow on ice I am seriously impacted by snow or ice about 10 days a year Sometimes I just work from home However I have a 4x4 truck and I think it is fun to go pull out stuck people Kind of a hobby,

[taylor-2017]

We don't need a large rental (it's just myself and my husband) but we do need a garage. We just worried that with real estate being relatively inexpensive there wouldn't be many rentals in decent areas.

I should have mentioned I am not active nor outdoorsy. We are currently living on the west coast and would like to get back to the east coast to be closer to family. I just am not sure if living in Michigan is worth the cross country move.

[taylor-2017]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

It feels like a lot of those 38% of poor roads are the most popular commuting routes like I-75 and 696. I don't know whether they haven't been repaved yet because of the sheer volume and few alternates or lack of funding (well, 75 is in the process of being repaved and widened but that'll take a whole decade) but it does feel like the perception of bad roads would be skewed by that fact.

It was just odd driving through some of the northern suburbs how a road would be in terrible shape then all of a sudden be newly paved and stay nice for a bit then abruptly turn horrid again. We thought it must be because we entered a new city or township.

[taylor-2017]

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

Weather:
The Upper Midwest is cold. There's really no way around that. That being said, the Lower Penensuila of Michigan is not even close to as bad as Minnesota or Wisconsin. MLive ran an interesting report as to why, but the summary is that being surrounded by lakes makes the onset of winter come much slower. People here think it snows a lot, it doesn't. At least not compared to what I'm used to. We get maybe 2 big storms a year and statistically the metro averages something like 25" of snow all year - which isn't much compared to truly snowy areas. I will warn you that we do have a lot of clouds and a lot of fog.

I thought being close to the water there would be lake effect snow like in Cleveland. Is this not the case for Detroit?

[DTWflyer]

Weather:
(from posts I've made earlier in the year)
Metro Detroit winters overall are pretty moderate as far as it goes for being in a northern locale. Somewhat similar winter to NYC, although we don't get the influences of the ocean the way they do.

Snow:
- Metro Detroit averages about 35-45 inches of snow/year. Some years more, some years less.
- Winter 2013-2014 saw record seasonal snowfall, which was around 90" for the winters
- Typical for us to get about 1-3 "big" snow events per winter that make getting around difficult for about 12-24 hours until the road crews can dig out. This typically takes a 8-12"+ snowfall with snow rates at 1-2" per hour to really inhibit commerce
- Expect about 10-15 lousy commuting days per winter - where snow, ice, slush will make travel slower but doesn't really shut down much in the way of businesses
- Most of our snowfall comes in 1-3" increments from passing squalls and clippers
- Most winters we get the snow and it will stick around for a bit if we are in a freeze/cooler period, but usually about a week later it will get warm up for a day or two and melt most its.
- Most winters Metro Detroit tends to be more "brown" than "white"
- The big exception was winter 2013-14 where not only did we get frequent snow, its stayed really cold for about 6 weeks, so the snow that fell stuck around for most of Jan, Feb and to mid-March with no real thaw
- Usually start to get the first measurable snow around Thanksgiving, pretty much done by mid-March
- We don't get the big "nor-easters" like the East Coast, nor do we get the lake effect snows like the northern and western parts of Lower Michigan on the lakeshore

Cold:
- Temps generally stay pretty mild through early/mid November highs in the 40s/50s, lows in the 20s/30s
- December starts to usually see sustained periods with highs only in the 20s/30s, and lows in the 20s
- January is usually the coldest month, usually get a week where temps stay in the single digits/teens, lows in the singles digits or slightly below zero
- Feb tends to usually be a bit warmer but mid-month, but the higher sun angles and longer days tend to make it feel warmer than Dec/Jan
- Mar starts to be full-on "mud season" where tends now are consistently in the 30/40s/50s during the day, but 20/30s at night
- April is the most frustrating month as it usually takes forever for it to actually green-up and get nice out, usually toward the end of the month

Gloom:
- Due to the warmer waters of the Great Lakes versus the colder air moving across the lakes, we get a lot of gray, overcast, cloudy days from October through February. Sunny days tend to be a rare treat.
- By November the days get fairly short with sunrise after 7am and setting around 5pm. Like said in Nov, Dec, Jan its you may go all week at work without being outside during the daylight hours.

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In January (2017) metro Detroit had only 2 days of sun

There have been pockets of sun here and there a few more days than that, but really only 2 that have been consistently sunny and clear.

This seems pretty typical though in Michigan with the Great Lakes. We tend to not get many sunny days in the winter until the Great Lakes get some significant freeze and/or we have very strong high pressure.

I also joke this is often the time of the year I can go from Sunday afternoon to Friday afternoon without seeing my house/yard in the daylight. Sometimes branches or trash may be lying down in the backyard but I won't notice since its always dark. At least our office has a lot of natural light.

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The best time of the year for weather in Southeast Michigan in my opinion is mid-May to late-June & August through Early-November.

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