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View Poll Results: Help us make a choice!
Royal Oak 6 50.00%
Berkley 3 25.00%
Clawson 0 0%
Wixom 1 8.33%
West Bloomfield 0 0%
Birmingham 2 16.67%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-05-2017, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,786 posts, read 1,932,627 times
Reputation: 3554

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pojack View Post
From the 1920's until 1950's Detroit had an extensive light rail system throughout the city known as the DSR (Department of Street Railways). In the 50's the DSR was abandoned to make way for General Motors newly produced large city busses in order to free up traffic congestion and prevent costly rail line maintenance.

In 2017, people are championing light rail like it's a new concept to Detroit. And they highly favor light rail over busses.

Weird.
...
There were a lot of urban planning mistakes that took place in the second half of the 20th Century. I believe we've discussed one in particular ad nauseam.
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Old 08-05-2017, 08:53 PM
 
67 posts, read 52,323 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
1) There was an Ann Arbor to downtown Detroit commuter rail from 1932 to 1984, and a Pontiac to downtown Detroit commuter rail from 1931 to 1983. According to you, since we are the Motor City, those rail services should never have existed. Were we the Motor City back in 1950 and 1960 and 1970? Then why did we have commuter rail back then?
.[/b]
Single income and single auto families. When did families start having 2 cars? 60s-70s? It's no wonder the each of these rail lines died in the early 80s.
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Old 08-07-2017, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
6,519 posts, read 3,536,091 times
Reputation: 8011
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBlueA2 View Post
Absolutely, but I did not say "poor." Post #76 is someone else's, quoting a previous post of mine. I just looked again. I did not say poor.

As for crime, yes! I was challenged on that, and addressed it in a previous post. Research has been done on it with mixed results. In some the crime increased with public transportation, in some it did not. So, yes, increased crime can and does happen with expansion of public transportation.

I'm not anti-public transportation entirely, I just don't want it running by my house. If I didn't have to get a ride to the airport or pay for parking, I'd be one happy camper. A regional terminal within 10 miles of my house would be fine. What I am saying is that you can not expect everyone to be on board with public transport in an area that boomed because of auto manufacturing. You also can't expect people to want to pay higher taxes to subsidize it. Good heavens, our taxes are high enough as it is.
Why not?

The province of Ontario is an auto manufacturing/assembly area, just as the state of Michigan is (in fact, from the early 2000s until around 2013, Ontario was the largest auto making jurisdiction in Canada and the US. Michigan then retrieved the role and has retained it since). But Ontario has very good public transportation, and people have no problem paying higher taxes to enjoy safe, reliable, efficient public transit systems.

Most large and small cities throughout Ontario have some form of public transportation, and, of course, the GTA has multiple modes of transit, including an expanding subway system; the Union Pearson express train from downtown to the airport; extensive bus routes; streetcars; commuter trains to the suburbs and surrounding cities; and soon, 4 light rail lines.

Yet all that public transit hasn't hurt the very healthy auto industry in Ontario or the construction and maintenance of good highways. Have you ever driven in southern Ontario? It's about priorities.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:27 PM
 
67 posts, read 52,323 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
Why not?

The province of Ontario is an auto manufacturing/assembly area, just as the state of Michigan is (in fact, from the early 2000s until around 2013, Ontario was the largest auto making jurisdiction in Canada and the US. Michigan then retrieved the role and has retained it since). But Ontario has very good public transportation, and people have no problem paying higher taxes to enjoy safe, reliable, efficient public transit systems.

Most large and small cities throughout Ontario have some form of public transportation, and, of course, the GTA has multiple modes of transit, including an expanding subway system; the Union Pearson express train from downtown to the airport; extensive bus routes; streetcars; commuter trains to the suburbs and surrounding cities; and soon, 4 light rail lines.

Yet all that public transit hasn't hurt the very healthy auto industry in Ontario or the construction and maintenance of good highways. Have you ever driven in southern Ontario? It's about priorities.
Yes, I have driven in southern Ontario, and as a teenager even rode my bicycle on hundreds of miles of their beautiful roads. You miss the point. I am not saying that public transportation will necessarily hurt the auto industry...in fact the thought never crossed my mind until I read your post. The point is that people CHOOSE to drive their personal vehicles. Don't expect them to pay taxes on something optional that they won't use.

Also part of the equation is that fact that the US auto industries and their labor unions originated here, not Ontario. You're comparing apples and oranges. The pride runs deep.

Personally, I have zero interest in sharing a germ infested mode of public transportation sitting on hard seats riding sideways in no climate control while people's bags and backpacks are are hitting me in the legs and face. Been there, done that. No thanks. You're welcome to it, but don't expect me to pay for it.
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Old 08-08-2017, 02:09 AM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,804,183 times
Reputation: 2624
*sigh* smh. Aren't we already the largest metropolitan area in the first world without regional rail transit? I don't think it can get anymore embarrassing then that. If you think that a good number of people won't use a clean, fast, efficient transit system to get them anywhere they want to go as opposed to paying the highest car insurance in the nation your crazy. The high cost of car insurance alone would have plenty of people ditching their cars.
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,786 posts, read 1,932,627 times
Reputation: 3554
The political spectrum of Canada is very different from that of America. In Canada, I'd be considered a conservative. Our conservatives in America call me a "leftist lib***ds" despite my very centrist attitude on many subjects. This is because American conservatives borderline nationalist extremists, "...and don't you damn raise one cent of taxes on me for the good of the community rabble rabble theft, socialism rabble rabble me me me, rabble rabble freedom." -- so you run into a situation where the only good public transit systems in America were built before nationalism really became a thing and have simply been maintained since then in the fact of protests and misguided efforts to dismantle them, as happened in Detroit.

Even newer transit systems that some media outlets tout as great really don't help most people who live there. Salt Lake City for example has a newer rail system, but unless you work downtown or at the university it's absolutely worthless (my former 15 minute car commute was 65 minutes with UTA) and everyone there complains about how much it costs. We're selfish. We're entitled. We don't want a better community, we want a better situation for ourselves. And a lot of people will read this and be like, "Well, yeah." -- and you can't change that attitude.

Density is also an issue. Outside of a handful of old cities extremely limited by geography, Americans all live really far apart. We're so intolerable that we need half an acre to ourselves just to get back from our crappy neighbors, so you get suburban sprawl. Try building a transit system that is usable by someone in Wixom, New Baltimore, and Gibralter, hah! Even the City itself lacks density. I think I've seen this shared here before, but if you've never seen it, this, along with selfish tendencies, is why we have no functional transit in Metro Detroit:

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Old 08-08-2017, 06:57 AM
 
67 posts, read 52,323 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
*sigh* smh. Aren't we already the largest metropolitan area in the first world without regional rail transit? I don't think it can get anymore embarrassing then that. If you think that a good number of people won't use a clean, fast, efficient transit system to get them anywhere they want to go as opposed to paying the highest car insurance in the nation your crazy. The high cost of car insurance alone would have plenty of people ditching their cars.
Oh my gosh, this is hilarious. Of all the things to be embarrassed about Detroit, lack of regional transit? Wow, I'm not even going to touch that one.

The cost of car insurance has nothing to do with transit. It has everything to do with the fact that we are a no-fault state and still have unlimited payout for PIP. Insurance companies are not required to report to the state how much they profit, and they are permitted to use credit scores for rating premiums. The latter is legalized discrimination. (If you have a ton of student loans, your auto insurance premiums are higher.) These are things that need to change in Lansing. People riding mass transit isn't going to solve the problem.

Another reason mass transit isn't going to pick up any time soon is that southeast Michigan (and maybe Michigan in general) has, for better or for worse, a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach to things. Overall, mass transit is not the 1st choice for commuters who spend their day designing and manufacturing vehicles. I don't blame them.
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Old 08-08-2017, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Ann Arbor MI
2,106 posts, read 1,350,352 times
Reputation: 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBlueA2 View Post
Overall, mass transit is not the 1st choice for commuters who spend their day designing and manufacturing vehicles. I don't blame them.
I will see that comment and raise you this.....Overall, mass transit is not the 1st choice for commuters anywhere in America except NYC.


Who relies on public transit in the U.S. | Pew Research Center
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Old 08-08-2017, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Back in the Mitten. Formerly NC
3,819 posts, read 5,464,796 times
Reputation: 5266
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig11152 View Post
I will see that comment and raise you this.....Overall, mass transit is not the 1st choice for commuters anywhere in America except NYC.


Who relies on public transit in the U.S. | Pew Research Center
Is it because they are not interested in mass transit or because an efficient system is not in place? I honestly think it is the latter for many people

Even if my commute stayed the same, I would give up driving my car to work and take a train. Without a moment's hesitation. Bonus if it lessened my commute. However, with existing systems in place, I can't make it the whole way with mass transit. It would take hours, and there would be no option for a return trip. I looked. I'd have to get to the closest bus stop (next town), take a series of buses to get into Flint, take the Greyhound to Detroit (there is only one a day in the afternoon), and then make my way from the Detroit Greyhound station. Impossible. I would get to work by 5:30 pm, with no Greyhound back to Flint until 1 pm the next day.
Now, if there was a commuter rail option, I would do it in an heartbeat. Even if I had to drive to Flint first. To get out of traffic, eliminate traffic back-ups, and be able to read or watch something on an iPad would be well worth it.
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Old 08-08-2017, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Ann Arbor MI
2,106 posts, read 1,350,352 times
Reputation: 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaynarie View Post
Is it because they are not interested in mass transit or because an efficient system is not in place? I honestly think it is the latter for many people

Even if my commute stayed the same, I would give up driving my car to work and take a train. Without a moment's hesitation. Bonus if it lessened my commute. However, with existing systems in place, I can't make it the whole way with mass transit. It would take hours, and there would be no option for a return trip. I looked. I'd have to get to the closest bus stop (next town), take a series of buses to get into Flint, take the Greyhound to Detroit (there is only one a day in the afternoon), and then make my way from the Detroit Greyhound station. Impossible. I would get to work by 5:30 pm, with no Greyhound back to Flint until 1 pm the next day.
Now, if there was a commuter rail option, I would do it in an heartbeat. Even if I had to drive to Flint first. To get out of traffic, eliminate traffic back-ups, and be able to read or watch something on an iPad would be well worth it.

That was a nationwide poll so I guess your suggesting there isn't an efficient system anywhere.
Maybe the problem isn't inefficient mass transit its too many people trying to live too far from where they work.
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