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View Poll Results: Help us make a choice!
Royal Oak 6 50.00%
Berkley 3 25.00%
Clawson 0 0%
Wixom 1 8.33%
West Bloomfield 0 0%
Birmingham 2 16.67%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-27-2017, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
1,277 posts, read 1,071,638 times
Reputation: 1544

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Most recent data for Northville High is 77% White, 17% Asian, 4% Black, 2% Hispanic. Most are from upper middle class professional families. Not much socioeconomic diversity. Depends on what you are looking for. That's just the way it is. I am not trying to offend anyone.

Unfortunately I have known too many professional adults whose kids have gotten into very big trouble, who live there. this has been in recent years, too. Can't understand why they left their kids unsupervised as much as they did. Drugs/alcohol addiction. Sadly, some are no longer with us.

Keep a close eye on your kids, know who they are associating with, know their parents and if they are keeping an eye on what goes on at their house. Please don't take anything for granted because of parents' prestigious careers or education.
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Old 06-27-2017, 01:56 PM
 
169 posts, read 131,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkeith View Post
Most recent data for Northville High is 77% White, 17% Asian, 4% Black, 2% Hispanic. Most are from upper middle class professional families. Not much socioeconomic diversity. Depends on what you are looking for. That's just the way it is. I am not trying to offend anyone.

Unfortunately I have known too many professional adults whose kids have gotten into very big trouble, who live there. this has been in recent years, too. Can't understand why they left their kids unsupervised as much as they did. Drugs/alcohol addiction. Sadly, some are no longer with us.

Keep a close eye on your kids, know who they are associating with, know their parents and if they are keeping an eye on what goes on at their house. Please don't take anything for granted because of parents' prestigious careers or education.
I'm not understanding the relevance of this post to the discussion. Yes, some parents aren't good parents. Some kids get into trouble. I suspect these stories are magnified when kids who are supposed to live a perfect life, don't. Addiction knows no bounds when it comes to demographics or socioeconomic status. But when it happens in Northville, everyone notices. When it happens in Detroit, hardly anyone does.
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
1,277 posts, read 1,071,638 times
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I don't live in Northville. I just happen to know a lot of people who do. In terms of relevance, the OP is looking for good places to raise a family. This can be more difficult to accomplish in some communities than others, and there seems to be some naivety as to what to look for in healthy community.
Again, it's honestly not my goal here to offend or put anyone on the defensive.
I do love kids and want them all to have safe, secure places to grow up, whenever possible. A lot seems to be taken for granted in wealthy communities with a high proportion of professional adults, when it comes to child-rearing. And I have no doubt that these parents love their children. Why this is happening all too frequently is a mystery to me.

I hope the relevance is a bit clearer now.

I will add that I have raised four children, now in their late teens, late twenties, and thirties. I have heard too much from their peers and their parents as time as gone by, and a lot of it is very heartbreaking. And you would never guess which families are having these problems; it has astonished me.
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:46 PM
 
169 posts, read 131,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkeith View Post
I don't live in Northville. I just happen to know a lot of people who do. In terms of relevance, the OP is looking for good places to raise a family. This can be more difficult to accomplish in some communities than others, and there seems to be some naivety as to what to look for in healthy community.
Again, it's honestly not my goal here to offend or put anyone on the defensive.
I do love kids and want them all to have safe, secure places to grow up, whenever possible. A lot seems to be taken for granted in wealthy communities with a high proportion of professional adults, when it comes to child-rearing. And I have no doubt that these parents love their children. Why this is happening all too frequently is a mystery to me.

I hope the relevance is a bit clearer now.

I will add that I have raised four children, now in their late teens, late twenties, and thirties. I have heard too much from their peers and their parents as time as gone by, and a lot of it is very heartbreaking. And you would never guess which families are having these problems; it has astonished me.
Are you suggesting that Northville isn't a good place to raise kids because of a few isolated incidents involving kids who suffer from addiction? How many times do these problems occur in Livonia? Royal Oak? Westland? Not only don't I understand the relevance of your post, it just doesn't make sense. Yes, people have problems, be they relational, addiction, or whatever else. Living and raising children in an upper class community and being upper class isn't the cause of those problems.
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Old 06-27-2017, 04:23 PM
 
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Personally no, I don't think it's worth compromising on walkability if it's something you care about - as long as you'd actually be in decent walking distance to whatever town you're considering. Although even if you aren't walking distance to a downtown, the town might still be more walkable overall (i.e. if most of your main roads aren't two-lane highways without sidewalks or super-busy streets with 45+ MPH speed limits etc.). And I think walkability also counts as kids get older - can they walk from school or sports practice to a smoothie shop or etc. with their friends?

Someone else said something about coffee shops not being what young families are needing in a town, but I'd say it's a mix of both. Yes I want parks - and we have a couple of those in walking distance too - but I also can't tell you how many times my family has walked downtown (Royal Oak) and had lunch, coffee, shopped, etc.

We did consider new construction when we were house-hunting (in Lyon Twp, Milford etc.) and my main concern wasn't just the walkability but the commute to work and family/friends in other areas, the lack of proximity to important things like a hospital or unimportant (but convenient) things like a mall, and also some mild concerns that these areas would be too conservative for us. I did love the fact that the new subs all seemed to have tons of kids.

So I personally think RO, Berkley, Clawson, Birmingham, Beverly Hills, Huntington Woods, etc. are great choices. But I'm sure you'd be happy if you go the new construction route too - the big house and young families might make up for the things you miss about a more walkable town (assuming the commute/traffic doesn't drive you crazy).

And I agree about Northville - the schools are definitely more diverse than the 94% statistic. I have friends there and it seems like another great place to live.

Good luck!
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Old 06-27-2017, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
1,277 posts, read 1,071,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pojack View Post
Are you suggesting that Northville isn't a good place to raise kids because of a few isolated incidents involving kids who suffer from addiction? How many times do these problems occur in Livonia? Royal Oak? Westland? Not only don't I understand the relevance of your post, it just doesn't make sense. Yes, people have problems, be they relational, addiction, or whatever else. Living and raising children in an upper class community and being upper class isn't the cause of those problems.
No. There are healthy families in Northville. I am suggesting that there is sometimes NAIVETY regarding the safety of these upper class enclaves. Parents, especially young parents, can overestimate the ability of very well educated neighbors with upper echelon jobs to use common sense when it comes to raising their children, especially when it comes to the teen years. Unfortunately I have encountered too much of this phenomenon over the years, more than a few isolated incidents.
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Old 06-27-2017, 08:54 PM
 
169 posts, read 131,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkeith View Post
No. There are healthy families in Northville. I am suggesting that there is sometimes NAIVETY regarding the safety of these upper class enclaves. Parents, especially young parents, can overestimate the ability of very well educated neighbors with upper echelon jobs to use common sense when it comes to raising their children, especially when it comes to the teen years. Unfortunately I have encountered too much of this phenomenon over the years, more than a few isolated incidents.
This phenomenon isn't exclusive to upper class families. It's called bad parenting. It occurs in all social classes.
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Old 06-27-2017, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Back in the Mitten. Formerly NC
3,819 posts, read 5,460,894 times
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Originally Posted by pojack View Post
Northville doesn't participate in school of choice. I take that back. Each year, they offer school of choice opportunities to 5... count them... FIVE... incoming 11th graders.

So yes, there is a correlation between the school district and city/township demographics in Northville. I believe Birmingham is the same. The only two in the area that don't participate in school of choice as far as I'm aware. Which I suspect is a big reason why they're able to maintain such high quality schools.
Northville has a limited school of choice. Once a child is accepted, they are in. So just because they allegedly are taking 5 juniors this year doesn't mean that they did not accept more students, especially elementary aged, a few years ago. These students would still be in the system.

And while they may be advertising the five openings on the website, things do happen a little differently. Nepotism and cronyism are very much alive in the 'limited enrollment' districts. They also tend to favor children whose parents are alumni. Basically, they may say they have 5 openings, but could very well accept more and in all different age groups.

To make a true comparison, you would have to call and get their school of choice statistics from the last 12 years.
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Old 06-28-2017, 12:17 AM
 
169 posts, read 131,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaynarie View Post
Northville has a limited school of choice. Once a child is accepted, they are in. So just because they allegedly are taking 5 juniors this year doesn't mean that they did not accept more students, especially elementary aged, a few years ago. These students would still be in the system.

And while they may be advertising the five openings on the website, things do happen a little differently. Nepotism and cronyism are very much alive in the 'limited enrollment' districts. They also tend to favor children whose parents are alumni. Basically, they may say they have 5 openings, but could very well accept more and in all different age groups.

To make a true comparison, you would have to call and get their school of choice statistics from the last 12 years.
I've been watching this for the last 4 years. Each year for the past 4 years, its capped at 5 students beginning in 11th grade. I don't know what the numbers they accepted 5+ years ago, but I suspect it's probably been capped at 5 kids. I don't believe they're conspiring to bring in kids of former alumni either.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,786 posts, read 1,930,463 times
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I've used this argument before when discussing universities, but in my opinion when a school takes B-Grade students and turns them into successful professionals, this is more telling than when a school takes the top of the top and turns them into successful professionals.

Does University of Michigan graduate top professionals who go on to do well in life? Yes. But it does this because it only accepts top students who were going to go on to do well in life regardless of where they went to school. Contrast that with a school like Michigan State, who accepts 70% of applicants, and still graduates a significant number of top students who go on to do well in life - keep in mind that many of those students were average students who could have ended up anywhere on the social success spectrum.

How does this relate? Let's compare Northville High, which according to another poster accepts 5 school of choice applicants, and according to state data gives free/discounted lunch to 5% of students. What this tells me is that you've got an immensely wealthy student population with lots of parental involvement and focus on academic success. These kids are going to do just fine regardless of the teachers they have. Contrast this with Berkley or Royal Oak High - both schools which accept a significant %age of students as school-of-choice (up to 20%, if I'm not mistaken) from all over the area - Ferndale, Clawson, Madison Heights, Hazel Park, Southfield, Oak Park.. while having free/discounted lunch offered to roughly 20% of the student population. These schools both perform very well and graduate a lot of successful college-bound students. Their test scores are competitive with Northville or Birmingham schools and the futures of their typical students are just as bright, but these are kids from the entire economic spectrum. Most of these kids come from middle class families, some from wealthy, some from poor, some likely have minimal parental involvement and just enough academic pressure for their parents to get them into good schools, whether through zip code or school of choice.

Which school is more impressive?

Sorry, I'm on a tangent here, but I guess my point is that if you're getting just as good of schools (possibly better ones, when considering input/output) in a community that costs less, has walkable streets, and doesn't reek of "keeping up with the Jones'" is that really all worth sacrificing for more square footage, an attached garage, and a more modern layout? For some it might be, and I suppose it's completely subjective as to where your priorities are. I'm a minimalist, and for me the attached garage and additional square footage just isn't that big of a deal.
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