is it worth comprimising walkability in a city? (Detroit, Warren: middle-class, fit in)

[pojack]

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

Forced? Or embraces? There's a big difference in learning alongside kids from Huntington Woods, Ferndale, Madison Heights, Oak Park, Bagley, etc. than kids from Eastside Detroit. And based on my prior post I still suggest a diverse school with high test scores from many income demographics impresses me more than a homogenous school where the kids would do well regardless of where they go. So by my own argument, this makes the GP school rather impressive as well, as they consistently rank well too.

Forced. If the state didn't incentivize it, there wouldn't be school of choice. Most districts need the money.

I'm impressed with school districts that rank among the best in the state. Diversity is important, and Northville schools provide that with 25% of the student population being minorities. Is it important that my child go to school with poor kids? I don't think it is. They can learn about those issues later in life. Not to mention, as I stated in a previous post, many of these kids bring their bad behavior with them. And quite honestly, I don't want my kid to have to deal with it. You'll never see it talked about in main stream media, but the misbehavior exists from lower class kids. Not to say it doesn't exists with all kids, but it's disproportionate with lower class kids.

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

Royal Oak has a handful of 500k homes. Even Berkley has 2 for sale right now. But the vast majority of homes in these towns are 200-250k well-kept bungalows or $300k colonials, built from 1940-1960. There's a bit more inherent modesty which comes with that over the entire neighborhoods of $500,000 pre-recession McMansions.

I counted 43 homes that are currently listed for sale in Royal Oak that are $450K+. More than just a handful. Again, a bad example. Do you frequent downtown RO at all? There most definitely is a "keep up with the Jones'" vibe going on.

[Geo-Aggie]

Originally Posted by pojack

Forced. If the state didn't incentivize it, there wouldn't be school of choice. Most districts need the money.

I'm impressed with school districts that rank among the best in the state. Diversity is important, and Northville schools provide that with 25% of the student population being minorities. Is it important that my child go to school with poor kids? I don't think it is. They can learn about those issues later in life. Not to mention, as I stated in a previous post, many of these kids bring their bad behavior with them. And quite honestly, I don't want my kid to have to deal with it. You'll never see it talked about in main stream media, but the misbehavior exists from lower class kids. Not to say it doesn't exists with all kids, but it's disproportionate with lower class kids.



I counted 43 homes that are currently listed for sale in Royal Oak that are $450K+. More than just a handful. Again, a bad example. Do you frequent downtown RO at all? There most definitely is a "keep up with the Jones'" vibe going on.

I'm there at least once, just about every weekend. Maybe our perspective differs, but we all have a tendency to find what we think we'll find. The percentage of people I'd feel judged by for having a more modest income is far less than any time I've been to the trendy areas of the Western 'burbs. Yes, low income often creates disadvantageous situations. That's a problem with society as a whole though and I'm not sure it's worth addressing in this topic. Schools in Berkley and ROak tend to not have Detroit students, as they're more apt to attend schools closer to 8 Mile. It's the students from suburbs closer to 8 Mile (Oak Park, Ferndale, Hazel Park) who then send their kids to the schools in Berkley and RO. It creates this weird situation of one-level-removed racism/prejudice that's very uncomfortable, and which yes, I agree - is not talked about as much as it should be, but we're so far off my point now that I don't even remember what it was.

Oh. Right. When the median income of families of kids at a high school is representative of the median income of families in the metro area, but the schools still score quite well, that impresses me. When the median income is significantly greater, I'm less impressed, as the high scores at that point are simply within expected parameters.

[jonnynonos]

Northville and Plymouth have evolved with the times. LOL about the downtown being "butchered." 30 years ago these were closer to like small, Victorian towns with one or two bars, a quaint restaurant and a gas station. Now they are increasingly very cosmopolitan cities and some of the most desireable places in metro Detroit. In fact in my opinion they are the most desireable desinations.

I think people just trash "McMansions" of Northville because they are jealous or something. All of those subdivisions are kind of tucked away off Sheldon Rd. and many of them are quite nice. It's called new construction. It's the same as anywhere else. If you have the coin and can buy a $2M custom-made home, believe me, there are plenty. What's the alternative?

People also tend to exaggerate how far these communities are from Detroit for some reason. Whatever. As I've written here many times, you are literally about 10-15 minutes from the Detroit border and, as another (sane) poster pointed out, about 30 minutes to downtown in most conditions.

[brodie734]

oh lord, someone just called Plymouth "cosmopolitan".

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by brodie734

oh lord, someone just called Plymouth "cosmopolitan".

Good point. You are correct in that relative to Rome, Paris or NYC, the entire state is pretty much a provincial backwater -- as is, you could argue, the entire Midwest.

Relative to many of the other options in metro Detroit, however, these areas are, well, perhaps not cosmopolitan, but exhibit some degree of sophistication in terms of dining options, aesthetics and culture.

[pojack]

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

I'm there at least once, just about every weekend. Maybe our perspective differs, but we all have a tendency to find what we think we'll find. The percentage of people I'd feel judged by for having a more modest income is far less than any time I've been to the trendy areas of the Western 'burbs.

In 2015, Royal Oak was ranked as the 4th "snobiest" city in Michigan based on household income and home values, among other things. It's not the middle class oasis you're trying to make it out to be. It's actually one of the wealthiest communities in the state. For the third time, it's not a good example for the point you're trying to no to make.

https://www.roadsnacks.net/snobbiest...s-in-michigan/

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

When the median income of families of kids at a high school is representative of the median income of families in the metro area, but the schools still score quite well, that impresses me. When the median income is significantly greater, I'm less impressed, as the high scores at that point are simply within expected parameters.

So you aren't impressed with people or school districts who demand educational success unless they're middle or lower class. Got it. Educational success tends to be demanded in upper class communities and school districts, which is why we chose Northville. I want my kid going to a district where excellence is an expectation, not a surprise if or when it occurs.

[pojack]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

I will think people just trash "McMansions" of Northville because they are jealous or something. All of those subdivisions are kind of tucked away off Sheldon Rd. and many of them are quite nice. It's called new construction. It's the same as anywhere else. If you have the coin and can buy a $2M custom-made home, believe me, there are plenty. What's the alternative?

I sense the Northville jealousy as well.

[brodie734]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

Good point. You are correct in that relative to Rome, Paris or NYC, the entire state is pretty much a provincial backwater -- as is, you could argue, the entire Midwest.

Relative to many of the other options in metro Detroit, however, these areas are, well, perhaps not cosmopolitan, but exhibit some degree of sophistication in terms of dining options, aesthetics and culture.

Cosmopolitan means, literally, "citizen of the world". Plymouth is a city that is nearly 95% white and contains a decent Mexican and Thai restaurant.

It's a charming little downtown but let's not start throwing words that are usually applied to big cities to describe tiny affluent suburban downtowns.

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by brodie734

Cosmopolitan means, literally, "citizen of the world". Plymouth is a city that is nearly 95% white and contains a decent Mexican and Thai restaurant.

It's a charming little downtown but let's not start throwing words that are usually applied to big cities to describe tiny affluent suburban downtowns.

Well, by its lower definitions, it can be used to indicate worldly sophistication, urbane etc., which is admittedly still a stretch for Plymouth.

By the primary definition, no place in Michigan is cosmopolitan except maybe Hamtramck or Ann Arbor when school is in session.

But, yeah, probably wrong word.

Ya got me!

[beachmouse]

Originally Posted by pojack

Which school is more impressive? The one who isn't forced to take in kids from everywhere in order to maintain financial stability.

Plenty of very desirable schools districts in inner ring suburbs have seen falling enrollment over the past 30 or so years for the simple reason that the area is built out, local government doesn't allow redevelopment to higher residential densities, and the fertility rate in the USA in 2015 is literally half of what it was in 1960 when the baby boom was peaking and schools were built to handle that peak student load.

So even good and very desirable school districts have to decide whether to reduce capacity or to look to increase revenue/students from outside of traditional school attendance areas. The school district with 4,000 students has advantages in terms of economies of scale and classes, services, and activities they are able to offer compared to the 2,000 student district, so I can see it making the decision to try to make up the numbers gap when the average upper middle class Mom in the district is only having 1 or 2 kids going to school in the district compared to the old days when she stayed home and had 3-4 kids in the system.