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View Poll Results: Michigan State Fair at Belle Isle?
Yes it would be a sucess 10 71.43%
No it would be a failure 4 28.57%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-24-2017, 08:02 AM
 
2,173 posts, read 2,824,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canudigit View Post
I googled some info about this event after I read your post because I wondered what ever happened to it after someone started it to replace the "real" State Fair (not necessarily my opinion, but I know that a lot of people were very skeptical and considered it nothing more than an urban festival when it was started, as opposed to a true state fair). It sounds like it's pretty successful but limited, being located in an expo center and all. Hopefully if it continues to expand they can someday build an actual fairgrounds somewhere in that area and transition it there since it appears that people are wiling to come to Novi to see it. In its current state it only runs for like five days but if it was located in its own designated venue then hopefully it would last longer, at least around three weeks like other state fairs. They have some sponsors with deep pockets (Fiat, 5/3 Bank) so the money may be there to do this. It's a shame to see something as iconic as the Michigan State Fair get bumped out of its venue after a few days because that venue is steadily booked up.

I think it's wonderful that people and corporations cared enough to try to keep the Fair alive instead of just letting it die a slow, painful death and planting a tombstone on top of it.
It's interesting to see row after row of animal stalls lined up inside the expo center, but they make it work. There are plenty of farmers who make the trek there from all over the state. Plus the convention center has added space and additional over the past couple years specifically for the fair. They have plenty of room outdoors for the typical rides and concert stage. They must get good crowds if they are expanding it every year. It's a fun family day trip.
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:31 PM
 
169 posts, read 132,037 times
Reputation: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
The state fair did not move from Detroit to Novi. The state of MI stopped doing the state fair all together.
It's called the Michigan State Fair. It doesn't matter who runs it. The state stopped it for a reason. Because it used to attract over 1 million people. In it's final years, it attracted 200K people. Why do you think that is? Why do you think it's not held in the city of Detroit anymore?

Quote:
The state fair in Novi is ran by a private company not the state of Michigan.
Right. But the state of Michigan still partially sponsors it.

Quote:
And nobody was shot at the actually fireworks or riverdays event.
2017... One person was shot near the spirit of Detroit across the street from Hart Plaza, which is close enough. Another was shot several blocks away at Cass and Fort in a separate shooting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUSTVM8Kmjw

2013... Two stampedes of hundreds of people...

55th annual Detroit fireworks marred by at least two unexplained stampedes | MLive.com


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXCPMrjo42Y

2004... 9 people shot in Hart Plaza at the fireworks...

Nine Hurt in Detroit Fireworks Shooting | Fox News

Just the type of event I want to bring my family to...

Quote:
They didn't even allow weapons at the event. It was in other parts of downtown. I don't have time to list every event right now but there are plenty of big events in Detroit that happened with no shootings.
Do you honestly believe that not allowing weapons at the fireworks deters criminals from carrying firearms at the fireworks? Please tell me you don't believe that. Non CPL holders aren't allowed to carry concealed firearms either. Do you think a criminal gives a rip about having a CPL when they're concealing their firearm?

Last edited by pojack; 07-24-2017 at 09:43 PM..
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:56 PM
 
1,856 posts, read 2,303,482 times
Reputation: 1864
Quote:
Originally Posted by canudigit View Post
I googled some info about this event after I read your post because I wondered what ever happened to it after someone started it to replace the "real" State Fair (not necessarily my opinion, but I know that a lot of people were very skeptical and considered it nothing more than an urban festival when it was started, as opposed to a true state fair). It sounds like it's pretty successful but limited, being located in an expo center and all. Hopefully if it continues to expand they can someday build an actual fairgrounds somewhere in that area and transition it there since it appears that people are wiling to come to Novi to see it. In its current state it only runs for like five days but if it was located in its own designated venue then hopefully it would last longer, at least around three weeks like other state fairs. They have some sponsors with deep pockets (Fiat, 5/3 Bank) so the money may be there to do this. It's a shame to see something as iconic as the Michigan State Fair get bumped out of its venue after a few days because that venue is steadily booked up.

I think it's wonderful that people and corporations cared enough to try to keep the Fair alive instead of just letting it die a slow, painful death and planting a tombstone on top of it.
I thought your main issue with the State Fairgrounds was its non-central location, and it not being representative of largely agricultural state. Novi is in a non-central location and it doesn't represent this largely agricultural state either. The neighborhood to the east and south of the Fairground is still bad, but to the east is the neighborhood of Palmer Woods, which rivals or betters any neighborhood in NOVI and NORTHVILLE, and to the north is a very successful large shopping center with a Meijer, Planet Fitness, Applebee's, Starbucks, etc. So things can change.

Since Belle Isle has been thoroughly cleaned up and made safe by the State Police, it would think it would
make a great home for it.

The State Fair in Novi is not a real state fair. A real state fair, or any fair, IS OUTSIDE. It should not be located in an expo center. Fairs have rides, they are supposed to be something you spend a whole day in. Are you really spending a whole day at the Suburban Showplace?
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:02 PM
 
1,856 posts, read 2,303,482 times
Reputation: 1864
Quote:
Originally Posted by pojack View Post
It's called the Michigan State Fair. It doesn't matter who runs it. The state stopped it for a reason. Because it used to attract over 1 million people. In it's final years, it attracted 200K people. Why do you think that is? Why do you think it's not held in the city of Detroit anymore?



Right. But the state of Michigan still partially sponsors it.



2017... One person was shot near the spirit of Detroit across the street from Hart Plaza, which is close enough. Another was shot several blocks away at Cass and Fort in a separate shooting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUSTVM8Kmjw

2013... Two stampedes of hundreds of people...

55th annual Detroit fireworks marred by at least two unexplained stampedes | MLive.com


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXCPMrjo42Y

2004... 9 people shot in Hart Plaza at the fireworks...

Nine Hurt in Detroit Fireworks Shooting | Fox News

Just the type of event I want to bring my family to...



Do you honestly believe that not allowing weapons at the fireworks deters criminals from carrying firearms at the fireworks? Please tell me you don't believe that. Non CPL holders aren't allowed to carry concealed firearms either. Do you think a criminal gives a rip about having a CPL when they're concealing their firearm?
There are a lot of events that take place in Detroit - numerous concerts, sporting events, Eastern Market every Saturday, annual events like Dally in the Alley to Nain Rouge parade to the Free Press Marathon to African World Festival to Jazz Festival to the Grand Prix and on and on and on. Should all of these events be moved to the suburbs because of the 3 events you highlighted above?

In addition, you have to PAY to get into the State Fair, which weeds out a lot of those "lower culture" people you avoid at all cost.
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:21 PM
 
169 posts, read 132,037 times
Reputation: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
There are a lot of events that take place in Detroit - numerous concerts, sporting events, Eastern Market every Saturday, annual events like Dally in the Alley to Nain Rouge parade to the Free Press Marathon to African World Festival to Jazz Festival to the Grand Prix and on and on and on. Should all of these events be moved to the suburbs because of the 3 events you highlighted above?
Oh God no! Keep all of those events down there. I like the quaintness, peace and quiet of my "boring" suburb.

Quote:
In addition, you have to PAY to get into the State Fair, which weeds out a lot of those "lower culture" people you avoid at all cost.
That's a good thing. Novi doesn't need or want the riffraff ruining their state fair.
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:27 PM
 
9,970 posts, read 16,600,708 times
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Access to Belle Isle is via one bridge. Think of the traffic snarls! Also, what if a "problem" breaks out? Getting first responders there, and evacuating possible victims of incidents, could be problematic, to say the least!
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,813,967 times
Reputation: 2629
Quote:
Originally Posted by pojack View Post
Do you honestly believe that not allowing weapons at the fireworks deters criminals from carrying firearms at the fireworks? Please tell me you don't believe that. Non CPL holders aren't allowed to carry concealed firearms either. Do you think a criminal gives a rip about having a CPL when they're concealing their firearm?
Uhh yea people give a rip about bringing weapons inside because guess what? they had police/ security with METAL DETECTORS making sure people didn't bring weapons inside, similar to when you go to sporting events or concerts. I know this because I WAS THERE big fella. I wouldn't have been able to bring my pistol despite the fact that I am a CPL holder. And your post just proved exactly what I said in my last post where I said "the shootings that occurred were in other parts of downtown". There were also roughly 1 million people downtown which also happens to be a 1 square mile walkable area where alot of bars, clubs, and restaurants were packed. I mean I could easily post a bunch of news articles from other cities that had fights and even shootings at events that drew hundreds of thousands of people. Belle Isle could easily have security checkpoints before entering the park. Obviously alot of security/ police would be there.

Quote:
There are a lot of events that take place in Detroit - numerous concerts, sporting events, Eastern Market every Saturday, annual events like Dally in the Alley to Nain Rouge parade to the Free Press Marathon to African World Festival to Jazz Festival to the Grand Prix and on and on and on. Should all of these events be moved to the suburbs because of the 3 events you highlighted above?

In addition, you have to PAY to get into the State Fair, which weeds out a lot of those "lower culture" people you avoid at all cost.
Exactly, I was at Summer Jams Sunday night which had over a dozen rappers and at least 10-15,000 people there. I didn't see any fights or shootings. Let me think of some other events from this year I went to in the actual city, Eastern Market? nope. Auto show? nope. 4th of July block party? nope. All white party? nope, big show? nope. lions game? nope. Silent R&B party? nope. Skate party? nope 80's vs 90's party? nope. Didn't see no drama at any of these events. I can go on and on. Of course there was some events with some commotion but nothing too serious (I think trap karaoke, Riverdays, Young Jeezy after party, Cinco De Mayo) but no shootings that I personally witnessed. The last shooting I witnessed was all the way in freaking Kalamazoo. But I did see some fights break out on St. Patrick's Day in Royal Oak and Springfest in Ann Arbor.

Quote:
Access to Belle Isle is via one bridge. Think of the traffic snarls! Also, what if a "problem" breaks out? Getting first responders there, and evacuating possible victims of incidents, could be problematic, to say the least!
As for the parking concern yes I thought about that too. But I wouldn't even allow cars on the island, the parking could be right before the bridge in that open space. If the state fair was there permanently they could build a parking garage or 2 on that space and it would also double as a garage for the riverwalk as well. From there you could walk across the bridge, use a free shuttle or a boat to take you back and forth to and from Belle Isle. The bridge would actually be a good security checkpoint.

Quote:
One of the major reasons why the Michigan State Fair failed is because it was located in Detroit. The State Fair was attended by many rural families from across the state and traveling to Detroit, the most urban,industrial, "scary" city in the state for many years now was not appealing to people who were coming from their farms across the state to exhibit their livestock and other wares. I realize that in recent years state fairs have been about more than the livestock, agriculture, etc., but that was the original purpose of these events when they started back in the day and for many people that is still a major draw. Just visit the Ohio State Fair, Iowa State Fair, or several others to see what a state fair is supposed to look like, based on the success of those events.

I can remember visiting the Michigan State Fair at the previous location along Woodward Ave. about twenty years ago when our kids were little and parking next to a decaying, urban neighborhood that felt fairly unsafe and then walking into an event that featured livestock and agricultural exhibits from across this largely rural state and thinking how strange it all was. I have family members who farm in mid-Michigan who agreed and stayed away. I can remember my cousin saying, "People don't want to go to Detroit for a state fair, that's stupid." Obviously just one person's opinion, I realize, but I think that that is how a lot of people in the more rural areas of our state feel. They don't want to go to Detroit for a fair. A baseball game? Sure. A concert? Yep. Even an Indy car race, but not a fair. With the exception of the Ohio State Fair in Columbus urban fairs are rarely successful, and it's a mystery why that fair is still so successful, perhaps because Columbus is a city known primarily for being the home of the Ohio State University and the state government and therefore being more of a central meeting place and identifier for all Ohioans than Detroit is for Michiganders. Columbus also doesn't have the crime stigma that Detroit has to deal with when attracting people to the city for events. Not that Columbus doesn't have crime, of course, just that Columbus hasn't had the national media ranting for years about how dangerous, decayed, and murderous it is like Detroit has.

I have heard people suggest the outskirts of East Lansing as a potential location for a state fair, which at least would be more centrally located and feel safer and more accessible to a lot of Michiganders who avoided the Detroit location. While Detroit has made enormous strides in recent years and continues to do so, there is still a culture of fear for many people about going to Detroit, even though Belle Isle, if reached via expressways directly to downtown Detroit is now considered pretty safe, especially when there is an event going on. Don't get me wrong, I love Detroit, am proud of its recent progress, and am excited about its future, and I tell anyone that cares to listen all of that. But as a location for a fair that represents the entire state of Michigan and is a draw for rural people? No, wrong city.
This is interesting, I actually didn't know a State Fair was more of a "rural" thing.
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:23 AM
 
Location: Pure Michigan!
4,502 posts, read 7,767,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
I thought your main issue with the State Fairgrounds was its non-central location, and it not being representative of largely agricultural state. Novi is in a non-central location and it doesn't represent this largely agricultural state either.
Right, and I still feel that way to some extent, but if, as the PP says, the attendance is good in Novi and the event is growing each year, then it must be successful there and that must be a viable location. It's not up to me to decide where the fair takes place. If it was located somewhere around Lansing it would be more centrally located to people from the entire state and possibly have more of a vibe like the perennially successful Ohio State Fair which takes place in that state's capital city, but anywhere that it can be successful and people will come is great as far as I'm concerned. Having the Fair in Detroit was driving people away but apparently not because of its non-central location, if it is successful in Novi. I didn't know the Novi event was that successful when I posted earlier.
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:35 AM
 
Location: Pure Michigan!
4,502 posts, read 7,767,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
This is interesting, I actually didn't know a State Fair was more of a "rural" thing.
If you google any of the state fairs, or even county fairs for that matter, you will find that the bulk of them, at least in this part of the country, were started back in the mid-1800s and were primarily events where local farmers could showcase their agricultural wares. For example, we visited the Lenawee County Fair recently and they have a sign posted stating that it began in 1839. Back then, this state and the surrounding states as well, were far more agricultural than they even are today and yes, these were events designed for rural people to get together and "show their stuff".

Obviously since the mid-20th century fairs have become much more commercial and diversified with the amusement rides, fair food, carnival games, etc., but there is still a strong agricultural and rural element. If you visit the Ohio State Fair or the Iowa State Fair, the midways are still lined with animal barns and animal showing and judging is still a huge part of the equation. Unless it is all torn down now, there are multiple livestock barns and arenas at the Woodward Ave. state fairgrounds in Detroit. Minus the agricultural element and other displays (crafts, cooking), a state fair would just be more or less a large carnival and not truly a fair in the traditional sense.
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Old 07-25-2017, 06:13 AM
 
Location: Pure Michigan!
4,502 posts, read 7,767,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
The State Fair in Novi is not a real state fair. A real state fair, or any fair, IS OUTSIDE. It should not be located in an expo center. Fairs have rides, they are supposed to be something you spend a whole day in. Are you really spending a whole day at the Suburban Showplace?
I agree. When I posted earlier I also didn't realize that the whole event is contained inside the expo center, I just assumed that there were temporary quarters set up for the animals somewhere on the grounds outside. I can't fathom livestock being housed in an expo center, another reason why the Michigan State Fair needs a real fairgrounds with barns and arenas.

I still think it's great, though, that someone cared enough to try to keep the event going, it was embarrassing when the fair was shut down a few years ago. But hopefully this event in the expo center in Novi will just be a temporary thing until a real fairgrounds can be built, in Novi or elsewhere.
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