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Thoughts? It's close but it depends on what factors one wishes to take into consideration. Some ideas to consider may be:
Education
Downtown
Suburbs
Economy
Architecture
Culture
History
Entertainment
Sports
Food
Medical Services
Public Transportation
Location
Safety
Natural Beauty
Things to do
Weather
Cost of Living
And anything else you can think of.
Hope for a good discussion!
Well....that is a tricky question. What makes the question tricky is your use of the term "Metro". There is an official, via the office of management and budget, definition of "Metro" that is based mostly on commuting rates. The Detroit region basically tried to decouple itself from the core city for decades...which greatly impacted where people lived and commuted and that has worked to the disadvantage of what officially gets defined as the "Detroit Metro Area" by the office of management and budget.
If you superimpose the square miles of metro areas like Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, etc, over Detroit centered in Detroit.....you would get a population as large as those places. That would include Flint, Ann Arbor, Windsor and possibly Toledo, Ohio. Yes, some metro areas are 10,000 square mile....like Houston. Atlanta is pretty close to that as well. Detroit's "Metro" area is less than 4,000 square miles. Its all based upon where people commute, not how many people live in a given area.
What I am trying to say is that Detroit is one of the most minimized areas based on the formula for calculating metro areas based on commuting patterns. There are 10 million people in a 100 mile radius of Detroit. In 2010 there were only 7 non overlapping areas that could claim that. There many be more now given the population growth of other metro areas since 2010. Of course, included in the Detroit radius is Windsor.
Here is my thing. If you live in the Dallas Metroplex you can drive 60 or 70 miles from one end of the metroplex to the other. If a person from Dallas moved to the Detroit region they can drive the same distance an have access to just as many people and things as in the metroplex. In other words, those official definitions of metro areas are superfluous to everyday people living in an area. Therefore, in my opinion, for everyday people, Detroit is definitely a top 12, if not top 10, metro area because in reality people have access to a similar population of people places and things as larger metro areas like Atlanta, with the only difference really being where people 30 miles outside of the city commute to daily.
I think OP is asking not which is biggest, but which are the "top" metro areas. In other words the best.
Detroit Metro takes a considerable step up if you include Ann Arbor. Other outliers bump it up somewhat too if included. Rochester, Brighton, Highland, Howell, Fowlerville. Pontiac (more of a push, the City of POntiac bumps it down, btu some of the surrounding areas bump it up), Monroe, Dundee, Saline, Chelsea. . . . Whether you include some fo these places make a difference on how I would rate the Metro pto other cities.
As far as the city itself, Detroit is probably my current favorite. I like the concentration of awesomeness along the Woodward corridor together with a just right density/population level. Enough to be fun, nto engouh to be crowded and line//traffic//wait oriented. However Charleston SC and Savannah Georgia are close rivals, and Boston, except Boston is too crowded (plus horrible drivers, plus east coast rudeness/selfishness).
I have not spent a lot of time in Atlanta, but what I have seen it not particularly exciting. It is nice enough to visit. Would not want to live there. Seattle is awesome. A bit crowded. Too liberal for my tastes. Also it is pretty secluded. The area approaching it is super ugly, at least form the East. New York is great to visit for a short time. After a while it makes me antsy too many people pushing and shoving and rush rush rushing. Too much living in a canyon. Too much of everything.
LA is pretty much a terrible city. Should not even be in the running given the parameters from the OP. Phoenix as well.
San Francisco and San Diego should be up there based on OPs metrics. Austin too. and Philadelphia. Don't forget Minneapolis. Cincinatti might get a nod too. For some people Raleigh/Durham NC as well.
So, to score Detroit on a 1-10 scale:
Education - For the metro area 8; Detroit itself gets a 2 and only because they have three good high schools and Wayne State.
Downtown - 9 As mentioned above, concentrated awesomeness without crowds.
Suburbs - 9 I have never found a better and more varied colleciton of suburbs. Some places have some better suburbs, none have the variety of excellent paces.
Economy - 7 it is on the upswing in a big way. Jobs are plentiful. Howevre we are back to overdependnecy on the auto industry. Oops.
Architecture - 8 for downtown. Suburbs gt a 3. While there are a few with some neat architecture, the bad ones dominate and are really really bad. (e.g. Novi, Troy, West Bloomfield, etc).
Culture 7-8. Largest Theater District after Broadway, awesome art museum, symphony, architecture, etc. Lots of cultural diversity even if it is all segregated into enclaves - that makes visiting it easier and more exciting.
History - 9. Pretty remarkable history going back to some of the first Europeans in North America. Exciting battles, the home of USA's climb to power. Motown, the Civil Rights movement. A major port. Not as well known as the East Coast cities, but really an equal history.
Entertainment. 7. As mentioned largest theater district, big time sports, enough decent concert venues.
Sports. 10. That one is easy.
Food. 4 - 5. Onyl a few really great places widely scattered. People always argue with me about this one. I think they just have not been enough other places.
Medical Services. 9. COmpared to what we had avialable in Orange County CA, medical services here are amazing. Both in quantity and quality. Of Course you need to count Ann Arbor int he metro for this one.
Public Transportation. 2.
Location. 8 or 9. Not counting climate. Right in the middle of the country, on the water, next to Canada. Close to Chicago, not too far from the east coast cities.
Safety. For the decent suburbs 9-10. Toss in Deetroit, Inkster, Wayne, and a few more and it drops to about 4.
Natural Beauty. Immediate area 6-7, expanded area - 10.
Things to do 6.
Weather. For me 3-4; for my wife and 3/5s of my kids 7-8.
Cost of Living 7-8/ Real estate is incredibly cheap. Property taxes, insurance, and general expenses are not.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 10-27-2017 at 08:06 AM..
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Oh most definitely yes, it looks and feels like a top 12 metro to any person visiting from the outside. I have family and friends all throughout metro Detroit, have visited since I was a kid, and I've had extended time at least one spring/summer of 2013 there. I've stayed in Southfield, Novi, Farmington Hills, West Bloomfield, Rochester Hills etc. Detroit no matter what detractors say is still the #2 metro in it's region, the airport reflects that also. The biggest international border that the U.S. has is there, and Downtown from what I hear is on poise for a huge come back, and I think the city has bottomed out. I do not see it dropping from the top 12 anytime soon.
I think OP is asking not which is biggest, but which are the "top" metro areas. In other words the best.
Detroit Metro takes a considerable step up if you include Ann Arbor. Other outliers bump it up somewhat too if included. Rochester, Brighton, Highland, Howell, Fowlerville. Pontiac (more of a push, the City of POntiac bumps it down, btu some of the surrounding areas bump it up), Monroe, Dundee, Saline, Chelsea. . . . Whether you include some fo these places make a difference on how I would rate the Metro pto other cities.
As far as the city itself, Detroit is probably my current favorite. I like the concentration of awesomeness along the Woodward corridor together with a just right density/population level. Enough to be fun, nto engouh to be crowded and line//traffic//wait oriented. However Charleston SC and Savannah Georgia are close rivals, and Boston, except Boston is too crowded (plus horrible drivers, plus east coast rudeness/selfishness).
I have not spent a lot of time in Atlanta, but what I have seen it not particularly exciting. It is nice enough to visit. Would not want to live there. Seattle is awesome. A bit crowded. Too liberal for my tastes. Also it is pretty secluded. The area approaching it is super ugly, at least form the East. New York is great to visit for a short time. After a while it makes me antsy too many people pushing and shoving and rush rush rushing. Too much living in a canyon. Too much of everything.
LA is pretty much a terrible city. Should not even be in the running given the parameters from the OP. Phoenix as well.
San Francisco and San Diego should be up there based on OPs metrics. Austin too. and Philadelphia. Don't forget Minneapolis. Cincinatti might get a nod too. For some people Raleigh/Durham NC as well.
So, to score Detroit on a 1-10 scale:
Education - For the metro area 8; Detroit itself gets a 2 and only because they have three good high schools and Wayne State.
Downtown - 9 As mentioned above, concentrated awesomeness without crowds.
Suburbs - 9 I have never found a better and more varied colleciton of suburbs. Some places have some better suburbs, none have the variety of excellent paces.
Economy - 7 it is on the upswing in a big way. Jobs are plentiful. Howevre we are back to overdependnecy on the auto industry. Oops.
Architecture - 8 for downtown. Suburbs gt a 3. While there are a few with some neat architecture, the bad ones dominate and are really really bad. (e.g. Novi, Troy, West Bloomfield, etc).
Culture 7-8. Largest Theater District after Broadway, awesome art museum, symphony, architecture, etc. Lots of cultural diversity even if it is all segregated into enclaves - that makes visiting it easier and more exciting.
History - 9. Pretty remarkable history going back to some of the first Europeans in North America. Exciting battles, the home of USA's climb to power. Motown, the Civil Rights movement. A major port. Not as well known as the East Coast cities, but really an equal history.
Entertainment. 7. As mentioned largest theater district, big time sports, enough decent concert venues.
Sports. 10. That one is easy.
Food. 4 - 5. Onyl a few really great places widely scattered. People always argue with me about this one. I think they just have not been enough other places.
Medical Services. 9. COmpared to what we had avialable in Orange County CA, medical services here are amazing. Both in quantity and quality. Of Course you need to count Ann Arbor int he metro for this one.
Public Transportation. 2.
Location. 8 or 9. Not counting climate. Right in the middle of the country, on the water, next to Canada. Close to Chicago, not too far from the east coast cities.
Safety. For the decent suburbs 9-10. Toss in Deetroit, Inkster, Wayne, and a few more and it drops to about 4.
Natural Beauty. Immediate area 6-7, expanded area - 10.
Things to do 6.
Weather. For me 3-4; for my wife and 3/5s of my kids 7-8.
Cost of Living 7-8/ Real estate is incredibly cheap. Property taxes, insurance, and general expenses are not.
That is what I mean, though. If you define Detroit as simply Wayne, Oakland and Macomb, which is essentially the Detroit "Metro".....then you are potentially leaving out ingredients that could change whether or not the area can be viewed as a top 12 metro. Think of it the OP had asked whether "Detroit" was still a top 12 place in the country. You would want to know what they meant by "Detroit"....meaning the answer depends on what boundaries are you using when you say "Detroit"....the city proper,
the suburbs, the exurbs, Windsor, Ann Arbor...etc.
Metro Detroit, officially, is 4.2 million people. That does not include Ann Arbor, Windsor, etc. Detroit's CSA population is 5.3 million without Windsor and 5.7 million with Windsor. Even with that as Detroit's footprint, that is only about 6000 square miles, while the MSA for Minneapolis is 7500 square miles, Atlanta 8,300 square miles and Houston at 9400 square miles. You would have to throw Toledo, Ohio in with the Detroit area to match the footprint of the MSA of these other cities.
Detroit is an EXTREMELY populated area, but it is one of the most narrowly defined metro areas officially. Boston is probably the most narrowly defined as its metro is listed as only 4.7 million but its CSA is 8 million.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 10-27-2017 at 11:55 AM..
My unofficial definition of what constitutes the Metro Detroit area includes:
Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, the greater Windsor area, and significant portions of Livington, Washenaw counties.
Basically draw a ring going from Monroe-> Milan -> Saline -> Chelsea -> Howell -> Hartland -> Holly -> Oxford -> Leonard -> Armada -> Richmond -> New Baltimore -> Leamington, ON -> Monroe
Everything inside that ring, the large majority of people's jobs and/or the economies of such communities are heavily dependent on the proximity within the Metro Detroit area. Some are exurban bedroom communities where commuters go to jobs within the core of Metro Detroit.
I've always heard a ~6.2 M people number cited as the population.
I would include Ann Arbor because anything in Ann Arbor is available to people in Detroit and its suburbs and because it is practical and common to live in Ann Arbor and commute to Detroit. Frankly, I might include Grand Rapids in such a consideration of what is available to me as a Detroiter, because I can drive to Grand Rapids in less time than it took me to drive from Santa Ana CA to Los Angeles.
That gives rise to another question, in answering the question of the OP, would you include Orange County in LA? Are the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, an LA sports team?
I would include Ann Arbor because anything in Ann Arbor is available to people in Detroit and its suburbs and because it is practical and common to live in Ann Arbor and commute to Detroit. Frankly, I might include Grand Rapids in such a consideration of what is available to me as a Detroiter, because I can drive to Grand Rapids in less time than it took me to drive from Santa Ana CA to Los Angeles.
That gives rise to another question, in answering the question of the OP, would you include Orange County in LA? Are the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, an LA sports team?
I agree with this. Using the "official" definitions of metro areas, for the average person, is like a man trying to go shopping based upon women clothing sizes. Those "official" metrics are not designed for the layman consumption, but rather, for governments and businesses. I mean....how many people in Detroit or its suburbs don't travel to Ann Arbor, who have the desire or need to, because its not "officially" part of "Metro Detroit"? How many people chose where to shop, who to date, where to work, where to play....based upon the official boundaries of government defined metro areas? Most people are only concerned about how far away it is and what traffic will be like getting there. Hence, those are the real metrics for non government or business entities.
Detroit is a minimized and marginalized region based upon official metrics because, as I said, the region spent decades trying to decouple from the city, which radically altered the "hub and spokes" configuration that creates high commuter rates between far out suburbs and counties. The Grand Rapids area went from an area of 600 and something thousand people to an area of slightly over 1 million people in half a decade, simply because of slight changes in where people were commuting. Detroit could become a metro area of nearly 6 million people, officially, from its current 4.2 million, if more people in outlying counties started working and commuting to Detroit. The region would not have to gain a sole. What would be different for the average person in the region? Nothing. You would still have access to all the things you had access to in the past based upon how far you were willing to drive.
Those official metrics does not do the Detroit region justice. Detroit is the center of the second megalopolis in the nation, behind the east coast megalopolis. Its just a marginalized area nationally but in reality its arguable a top 10 region....if not metro, based upon how individuals live their daily lives.
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