Moving to Detroit Area --- need to find the right suburb!!!! (Warren: renting, house)

[BookLover08]

Originally Posted by attkrt

This is too funny.

I love how Booklover08 insinuates that I dislike the opionion of others. Obviously, she feels the same way.

I hope that my original post did not offend others as much as Booklover08's offended me (and probably other GPointers)

You say potato, and I say potahto, potato, potahto, tomato, tomahto, let's call the whole thing off.....

Yes, it IS funny. We are both being defensive and dogmatic and offensive in our opinions. However, I'm honest enough to admit that I'm being opinionated and offensive. Can you?

Really? Well, I personally don't shop at Land's End but I can tell you that my opinion on this is that we do dress "preppy" which at the very least looks put together and tasteful. Quite frankly, I would rather dress in timeless fashion than trendy fashions that quite frankly look dirty.

Dirty? In what sense? As in <gasp, horrors> sexually attractive or dirty as in "haven't washed in a week Ethan Hawkeish"? LOL! You sound pretty repressed to me. I'll bet you dress in the oh-so-tasteful Talbot's, like an 80 Y.O. matron instead of the 30-40 something you probably are. Whatever.

[QUOTE]
Also, GP is known for its racism. Coming from Miami, which was WAY more racially mixed, GP's lily-white, uber-WASPy population was a shock to my system
[/quote]

This one I LOVE! My children are not white-they are Asian. Guess what? They are not the only ones in their school....hmmmmmm.

Yeah, OK, there are Asians in Grosse Pointe but the majority of this place IS lily-white. It's a demographic fact and GP is well-known for it. As for not being the only ones in their school, well sure, GP also has a few black kids in both public and private schools here. They are trying to give their kids a better education from what their previous neighborhoods offered. But there still aren't that many. There could be more scholarships offered at the private schools too, as a way of reaching out to kids in Detroit, instead of looking guilty of tokenism.

No, I don't "win". I obviously have a more outgoing personality and will talk to people without waiting for them to talk to me. Anywhere you choose to live, you need to make an effort. It sounds like you waited for friends to come to you.

Ever heard of sarcasm? OK, so you're more extroverted. America in general favors extroverts. That's no secret. But your condescending attitude aptly demonstrates the unfriendly, shut down vibe I've been talking about in GP.

Others on this board have mentioned what a rude, hostile, downright unfriendly place this is so my perception is hardly the only one. I did get a 'feel' for people, but when you make social eye contact and smile and they glance across the top of your head for someone more 'socially prominent' or more like them or whatever they're thinking is of their 'ilk,' it's disconcerting. You have obviously not read my other points in these posts and addressed them. I have valid reasons for my attitude about GP. I have made an effort. It was clearly not reciprocated. I was willing to give people a chance and not believe all of the negative things I had heard about GP being snobby and deeply unfriendly. Sadly, I should have listened to those comments. They were proven correct. Giving people the benefit of the doubt goes both ways. And usually it's incumbent upon a community to make the newcomers feel welcome. The newcomers respond and voila...a rapport is established. No one was even CURIOUS about me. At all. They could hardly be bothered to remember my name after an introduction.

Grosse pointe is soo overrated.
#1 miles from good entertainment. (Yes, that 10 minute drive to Comerica Park, Joe Louis, etc is a killer)
#2 dirty lake st. clair (False-see #3)
#3 fish flys (3 weeks each summer-more fish flies-the cleaner the lake)
#4 too quiet (Yes, I wouldn't want to live somewhere with traffic that takes me forever to get to the grocery store!)
#5 too much government (getting pulled over 2 mph over the speed limit)(Two things on this one-safety is important, two-if you don't like it, don't drive through here.

Um, it's takes at least 45 minutes to an hour to go to a major theater showing current movies from GP. And if you like artsy movies, it's even further. This place just isn't happening unless you like the clubby, boating, country club mentality that prevails or the endless obsession with lawncare (snore....).

As for safety, that's a laugh. I see women talking on cell phones while driving their gas-guzzling behemoths through GP. One of them almost hit a young kid riding to school on his bike this morning. I guess the bigger the vehicle, the more entitlement you feel about driving as fast as you can...to hell with other people's kids on bikes. Such hypocrisy abounds.

[Cato the Elder]

If metro Detroit was San Francisco, GP would be Atherton or Palo Alto and Birmingham would be Sausalito or Berkeley Hills. In Philadelphia, GP would be the Mainline and Birmingham would be Society Hill. There are superficial similarities, like wealth, but also subtle differences once you dig deeper.

I've been to plenty of parties in both GP and Birmingham and I would have to agree with Bibliophile08. You meet so many people in Birmingham who are self-made and from all over the US. As long as you are interesting, you'll usually fit in. In GP, it's more of a local Brahmin culture. You get major props for being so-and-so's grandkid.

As mentioned, it all depends on your preferences.

[attkrt]

Just a question.... do your children attend public or private schools in GP?

That may change my attitude towards your opinions of GP.

Thanks

Attkrt

[BookLover08]

Homeschooled.

[dfmovingsoon]

Dear Booklover08,
I just read your post about the Detroit area (Birmingham, Grosse Pointe) and found it very helpful. I think you have convinced me that I really need to look into Birmingham, rather than Grosse Pointe. However, I'm wondering how you still feel about the city after settling in there? Also, how long of a commute would downtown Detroit be - hubby will be commuting there.

You mentioned that you are a "strange, idiosyncratic sort that likes used bookstores, vintage clothing shops, lots of different ethnic foods, art theaters... In short, I'm kind of a nerdy, artsy bohemian sort, I guess. That didn't go over well in Grosse Pointe. I'm hoping to have better luck in Birmingham. "

This description sounds very much like my husband and myself, so I am thrilled to hear that Birmingham supports "our type". We are in our early-30s and consider ourselves sort of artsy, nerdy folk, but we are also down-to-earth, friendly, and casual people. So, brand-name, snobbery is a big turn-off. We are looking into the Detroit area as he is seriously considering a faculty position at Wayne State University. If we had our choice ,we would move to the Ann Arbor area, just to give you an idea of what type of town we love. Unfortunately, AA is just too hefty of a commute to downtown Detroit.

Does Birmingham have:
- Quiet neighborhoods in or near green areas (as much as possible). We are possibly thinking of having a baby soon and we are looking into renting a 3-bedrm house or townhome at first ($1300 or less/mo). Any particular areas in the Birmingham area that we should look into?
- A 30-minute commute to Wayne State? (average commute)
- A community that welcomes the arts and liberal attitudes?
- A range of great restaurants (ethinic), shopping, the arts, and "things to do" within a 10-15 minute drive or closer? Royal Oak offers a great downtown feel, but seems a bit to congested for us as a place to reside.
- Trees and greenery? I don't get that feel from some of the other Detroit suburbs.

We don't mind paying more for the above - it is more important to us that we have a good fit. Thanks again for your helpful post and would love to hear more about how you like Birmingham.

[GinaJ]

You may be able to find a little rental house near downtown where there are shops and restaurants. I am talking Birmingham. Then you would have easy access to Troy and Royal Oak which I consider artsy. The homes in Birmingham can be expensive to rent but people are desperate to rent so you may find a deal. I would look on craigslist. I know when I was looking I saw some in Birmingham. Just fyi Birmingham can be very congested traffic wise too. Good luck

[BookLover08]

Originally Posted by dfmovingsoon

Dear Booklover08,
I just read your post about the Detroit area (Birmingham, Grosse Pointe) and found it very helpful. I think you have convinced me that I really need to look into Birmingham, rather than Grosse Pointe. However, I'm wondering how you still feel about the city after settling in there? Also, how long of a commute would downtown Detroit be - hubby will be commuting there.

You mentioned that you are a "strange, idiosyncratic sort that likes used bookstores, vintage clothing shops, lots of different ethnic foods, art theaters... In short, I'm kind of a nerdy, artsy bohemian sort, I guess. That didn't go over well in Grosse Pointe. I'm hoping to have better luck in Birmingham. "

I'm so glad I was able to tell it like I saw it and convince you that B'ham is a better fit than other places, not just GP. First of all, B'ham has a terrific public school system so if you're thinking about having a baby, then you coudn't pick a better place! And GinaJ is right, try craigslist for a deal on rentals. You may have to pay between $1600-1900/month for a 3 BR home in B'ham but it's so worth it, IMO. However, I bargained with our current landlords and got them down on price. It's true that the economic downturn has made many people quite flexible on rental prices. On my street, there are several renters and I have seen at least 4 houses for rent within 3 blocks of my house. It's within walking distance of the downtown B'ham area, south of Lincoln, which has a YMCA, nice parks and an elementary school in the area. Rentals are generally less expensive south of Lincoln but it's just a location thing, you know, the further away from downtown, the less $$ you pay. BUT I can still walk or bike there!

As for driving, my husband works downtown and has found several easy commutes that are within 40-50 minutes depending on traffic. He loves driving down Woodward because it's fast and doesn't have many lights. I love it because it can take you to Royal Oak or Berkeley in 10 minutes. Both are charming, fun, artsy communities with a lot to offer. Nonpretentious with used bookstores, great pubs, cafes, vintage clothing stores, funky T-shirt shops, etc. Great vibe in both places. I have not regretted moving to B'ham at all. Wish I had done it to begin with but oh well, a lesson learned. Downtown is nice but pricier and a tad more upscale than RO or Berkeley. The pubs and cafes in RO and Berkeley are more fun and down to earth. My favorite place in B'ham is the library, also within walking or biking distance of my house. It has a terrific selection of books, magazines, CDs, newspapers, DVDs, etc. I can't believe some of the offbeat things I've been able to borrow there.

So, brand-name, snobbery is a big turn-off.

I hear ya. I'm the kind of person who buys something ON SALE from Anthropologie and pairs it with something I bought and altered from a thrift shop. Salvation Army in RO has good stuff. I just like looking less cookie cutter with my clothes. There is some brand-name snobbiness in B'ham but I have a feeling that you wouldn't vibe with such people anyhow (I don't) so it's not really an issue.

If we had our choice ,we would move to the Ann Arbor area, just to give you an idea of what type of town we love. Unfortunately, AA is just too hefty of a commute to downtown Detroit.

Us too! But the commute is a real killer. I just went to the Book Festival in Ann Arbor in May - I had the best time just walking around the area.

Does Birmingham have:
- Quiet neighborhoods in or near green areas (as much as possible). We are possibly thinking of having a baby soon and we are looking into renting a 3-bedrm house or townhome at first ($1300 or less/mo). Any particular areas in the Birmingham area that we should look into?

Yes, see above. Parks, YMCA, and there's a fun miniature golf course in RO on 13 mile, I think. Look south of Lincoln for better prices.

- A 30-minute commute to Wayne State? (average commute)

More like 45-50 minutes, depending on traffic and weather but my husband loves driving down Woodward so it's scenic, not as full of potholes as say, Jefferson Ave.

- A community that welcomes the arts and liberal attitudes?

Yes, with a caveat. The Community House offers classes for various arts. If you're looking for something more intense, there are several meetups in the area that have good book groups and I'm joining a lit crit group in July because I'm a writer. In general, though, the really off-the-wall arty group will be in RO, IMO. I think Detroit isn't much of a place for the arts, you have to go downtown or aggressively search for it in the suburbs. Royal Oak is your best bet for laidback, alternative, various subculture arty, do your own thing folks.

- A range of great restaurants (ethinic), shopping, the arts, and "things to do" within a 10-15 minute drive or closer? Royal Oak offers a great downtown feel, but seems a bit to congested for us as a place to reside.

Restaurants galore in this neck of the woods - B'ham, Troy, RO, Berkeley, etc. Never a huge drive. Everything in Oakland County is congested but that's okay because the diversity of places to go makes up for it, IMO. Once you get off Woodward, there are good, peaceful neighborhoods in the communities I just mentioned. You can have action if you want it or birds chirping, this area has it all.

One last thing, I have lived in a variety of large cities that have monstrous congestion so my opinion on that issue is very subjective. We lived in Washington, D.C. and Miami and the beltway was a nightmare to navigate, which is why I used to Metro subway system. Miami's I-95 was known for angry drivers who would just as soon pull a gun on you as look at you if you honked them for cutting you off! Heh. Detroit's congestion seems downright somnabulent compared to those cities.

[trulyadiva]

You sound like you would be much happier in a place like Ann Arbor, too bad it's such a far commute for you, I think it would be one of your best bets.

[lovindfw]

We moved here in July and decided to rent in Troy. However, we are looking to buy a home and based on what we have seen thus far...Rochester Hills appears to be a better option with regards to affordability, size, and schools.

[SpikeandMe]

We moved to Bloomfield Hills 10 years ago from Philadelphia because people told us that it was a great place to live. We had been transferred five times previously to various communities up and down the East Coast, so moving wasn't new for us. At that point, we had two kids in high school who weren't thrilled with moving at all. We were very concerned about finding a place with good schools where they would be comfortable.

Was it the right choice? Bloomfield Hills' schools are terrific. But our kids weren't particularly happy -- they thought the kids were cliquey and certainly most of them had known each other since kindergarten, which makes it tough on a newcomer. Neverthless, both of them went on to graduate from college and now live elsewhere on their own, so it must have been OK.

Personally, I found the community boring and isolated. After the last one graduated high school, we bought a house in Farmington Hills, within a brisk walking distance of my husband's Southfield office and only a few minutes from the airport. Our home is also close to great shopping and the library, bank, grocery, Y, post office, etc., are all within a half mile via quiet streets in our neighborhood. The Farmington schools are supposed to be pretty good, but I don't have any experience with them.

Two years ago, we bought a second house in Gibraltar, which is across the Detroit River from Grosse Ille. Our house is on the water as it opens into Lake Erie. We keep our boat on a lift behind the house. It's about 45 minutes to my husband's office in Southfield, a lousy commute in the winter, but do-able in the summer.

I think the Grosse Ille schools are pretty good and the Gibraltar schools are OK. I guess if my husband were contemplating working in Monroe -- as somebody here said theirs was -- I'd look hard at this area. It's actually very attractive and if you like the water, it's heaven. Lake Erie is clean and beautiful.