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Old 06-22-2008, 11:07 PM
 
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My biggest question with Detroit is why it can we never move past this? I moved away and found out that people of different different colors of backgrounds can live together!! Who knew??? When I come home it is the same old tired crap...everyone more concerned with hating each other than moving forward.
Name one large American city with a very large African American population where they have "gotten past this crap". Atlanta? Go over to the Atlanta forum and search "racism". Try the same for Los Angeles. Looks like the same old "not gotten over crap" to me.

And how come so many black teenagers are having kids they can't afford, who are being raised by black grandparents who have a house, car, can read and write and go to church every Sunday? How did those grandparents who grew up in the 40's through the 60's, make it in the face of all that oppression, but their grandchildren, black children who have more opportunity than any black generation ever (and any lower middle class WHITE generation too if you ask me)....Why is it that they've reverted to the cycle of poor people having kids they can't ever hope to support? Explain to me how white oppression has forced this cycle on so many of today's African American young people. Does the white oppression thing skip a generation?

Let me guess...it's because they're poor, just like so many poor white people have so many kids they can't afford. So the white people are poor because....well, it must be George Bush's fault. And the BLACK people are poor because of 400 years of oppression....and George Bush. Those black people who made it with TRADITIONAL FAMILY VALUES, somehow got a pass from the oppression. And if it weren't for racism, the blacks who made it would all have been millionaires, not merely comfortable.

Oh, by the way, the Democratic nominee for President IS BLACK! Not only that, he's got some incredible baggage. How did he manage to make it in the face of this oppression? How many kids did he and Mrs. Obama have before they got out of high school? How were they able to break the chains that bind?

Last edited by Nearborn; 06-22-2008 at 11:37 PM..

 
Old 06-23-2008, 09:12 AM
 
2,790 posts, read 5,799,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nearborn View Post
And how come so many black teenagers are having kids they can't afford, who are being raised by black grandparents who have a house, car, can read and write and go to church every Sunday? How did those grandparents who grew up in the 40's through the 60's, make it in the face of all that oppression, but their grandchildren, black children who have more opportunity than any black generation ever (and any lower middle class WHITE generation too if you ask me)....Why is it that they've reverted to the cycle of poor people having kids they can't ever hope to support? Explain to me how white oppression has forced this cycle on so many of today's African American young people. Does the white oppression thing skip a generation?
There are some who would say that white oppression did not skip a generation. Can you say c-o-n-s-p-i-r-a-c-y? Remember the allegations back in the 80's about the CIA selling cocaine in the inner city to secretly raise funds to the Contras, and that whole nasty little Iran-Contra affair, starting with the "October surprise?" Would certainly explain how a whole generation got sidelined.
 
Old 06-23-2008, 09:51 AM
 
392 posts, read 1,731,334 times
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Originally Posted by Nearborn View Post
Name one large American city with a very large African American population where they have "gotten past this crap". Atlanta? Go over to the Atlanta forum and search "racism". Try the same for Los Angeles. Looks like the same old "not gotten over crap" to me.
I think I will draw my opinions from actually living in different cities rather than reading whatever anonymous posters decide to write.
In the other cities I have lived in I have never experienced the clear cut racism and lines drawn that I see in Detroit. I am not blaming one side or the other, I think everyone has had a fair hand in it.
Now I live on a block where there is no predominant race, my kids go to school with and have friends of all races and laugh at the stereotypes, I see all sorts of blended couples every day.
Sorry, it is different.
 
Old 06-23-2008, 10:51 PM
 
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I am stunned that so many think Detroit is Racist!! My neighborhood is like Stock66's. I believe that the LACK of Family Values, Strong Family Unity, Respect for Education, strong Social Skills being taught at home and in School, has had an Effect on all of US.

We must continue to believe that everything that happens to US is our Teacher. The Secret is to learn to sit at the feet of our own Life and be Taught by it. Yes, I know Black Men are still angry over the Rape of their grandmothers and greatgrand mothers!! We are a "changed" people because of it...but we can never Revert back to who we were!! We must move forward.

First, let us remove the "concept that gangs and rappers are outstanding citizens." They are not, and never shall be!! They may have money, and jewels, and new cars, but this was purchased at the pain and suffering of many. This includes the communities they "infest" to sell their "products" and the neighborhoods that they "destroy" by addicts going into these areas to purchase their Filth!! Crime problems are in every city in this country. Detroit does not have the crime that Los Angeles, and Vegas, and now Atlanta have now.

What can we do to change Detroit....lets start by Respecting each other and then Talking to each other. I realize that there is a new generation of young people existing today....Most of their problems began at Home!! Their parent or parents are living from day to day, not from strong family values and goals reinforced by good educations. Remember: Nothing from Nothing leave Nothing!!

Last edited by Diamond12; 06-23-2008 at 10:53 PM.. Reason: Word
 
Old 06-24-2008, 07:58 AM
 
12,486 posts, read 7,587,441 times
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Nearborn….I mentioned 400 years of oppression……not oppression 400 years ago. I am sure you are intelligent enough to know the difference. Also, oppression did not end because it was no longer legal. Discrimination against blacks exists until this day, albeit to a fatiguing degree….it’s still is a reality. Don’t you know that bank redlining and real estate and job discrimination against blacks has existed in the last couple of generations? Again, what is your malfunction……ignorance or deceit?

Let me educate you on what CITIZENSHIP means, because you seem to lack that back understanding. As a CITIZEN of the United States of America, you inherit all ASSETS and LIABILITIES of this nation, whether created by you or not. Would you dare argue and renege on your freedoms because you or your ancestors did not fight or day in the war for this nation’s independence? For one to argue that they are not liable, as citizens, for accrued past liabilities of the nation, one is also arguing the corollary that they deserve no rights or assets created by the sacrifices of others in the past. Citizenship is a package deal where citizens are granted certain rights and freedom bestowed upon them through the sacrifices of others in the past, that they personally did not contribute to. One cannot only accept those freebies but then attempt, in principle, to deny the liabilities of the nation, based upon the argument that YOU had nothing to do with it. You also had nothing to do with most of the freedoms that you enjoy everyday….are you going to renounce your right to those freedom based upon the fact that YOU had nothing to do with their creation? You are a hypocrite if not.

Realities validity is not beholden to your recognition there of. The fact that you could care less about my ancestor’s histories does not change the reality of the impact of my ancestor’s history on their impression of whites, just as my own personal experience with whites in my life of 40 years, has shaped my impression. Again, actions produce reactions and white racism has manifested a reaction in blacks. It does NOT work both ways because blacks have never instigated and carried out the oppression of whites to say that white racism is simply a reaction to black’s mistreatment of whites. It does not work both ways. It is totally disingenuous to suggest that it does. Again, what is it…..ignorance or deceit that makes people suggests such?
 
Old 06-24-2008, 01:00 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,293,137 times
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The effects of past discrimination has impacted black folks negatively. It put us at a disadvantage so that it will take more effort to succeed, and we have to overcome more than the average white person to thrive.

HOWEVER, even though white folks set up the disadvantage through their unequal distribution of resources that went on for centuries, WE PERPETUATE the inequalities to a great extent, THROUGH OUR OWN ACTIONS TODAY. (Which Nearborn has so uneloquently stated.)

We can make our plight easier by - not having children that we don't the financial resources nor the maturity to raise adequately, not having fathers who don't take of their kids, by stressing education and the learning of a skill to succeed in life, by stressing respect for each other and respect for authority/rule of law, discouraging dependence on alcoholic and the abuse of banned drugs.

Those aforementioned things - BLACK FOLK SHOULD BECOME MASTERS OF SUCH THINGS. In all of our actions, we should consider those who preceded us - and live our lives as a tribute to our ancestors who fought and died so that they and their children would be treated as equals.

Our ancestors cannot be proud with these things that we have let ravage our communities - alcoholism, functional illiteracy, father absenteeism, rampant crime, disrespect for authority, people not taking care of their houses/property, poor schools, etc.
 
Old 06-24-2008, 01:51 PM
 
225 posts, read 750,065 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Don’t you know that bank redlining and real estate and job discrimination against blacks has existed in the last couple of generations? Again, what is your malfunction……ignorance or deceit?
I know plenty of black folks who are as successful or more than I am who didn't have to work as hard as I did to get there. Programs like affirmative action, preferential school admissions, set aside contracts and downright dishonest hiring practices after affirmative action was no more, took care of that. Sorry, you'll never convince me that I bear any responsibility for elevating members of one race simply by virtue of their membership in that race.

You're very good at rationalizing failure though. My "malfunction" is that I've experienced being discriminated against in favor of blacks who were less qualified than I was for jobs, school admissions, etc. and I dind't use it as an excuse to get high, drop out of school and father a half dozen children before I was 30.
 
Old 06-25-2008, 07:09 AM
 
12,486 posts, read 7,587,441 times
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Originally Posted by Nearborn View Post
I know plenty of black folks who are as successful or more than I am who didn't have to work as hard as I did to get there. Programs like affirmative action, preferential school admissions, set aside contracts and downright dishonest hiring practices after affirmative action was no more, took care of that. Sorry, you'll never convince me that I bear any responsibility for elevating members of one race simply by virtue of their membership in that race.

You're very good at rationalizing failure though. My "malfunction" is that I've experienced being discriminated against in favor of blacks who were less qualified than I was for jobs, school admissions, etc. and I dind't use it as an excuse to get high, drop out of school and father a half dozen children before I was 30.
With well over 300 million people in the country, it’s not hard to demonstrate exceptions to the general rule. Hell, even during slavery, there were some free blacks in America doing better than whites, as rare exceptions to the rule for blacks in America. So I accept and acknowledge the validity of the probable existence of blacks who have worked less hard than you but who have more than you, do to a host of factors, including Affirmative Action. However, you will find far more whites who have worked less hard than you but that have more than you, by virtue of nepotism, inheritance, connections and a host of other reasons. I don’t hear you complaining about that. Moreover, one would have to be demonstrating a cognitive malfunction, if not ignorance, if they concluded that blacks were getting preferential treatment, overall, given that black rates of unemployment is nearly 3 times the rate of whites and black poverty 3 times the rate as well, plus black wealth being over 10 times less than whites. It just does not add up that blacks are being granted preference more than it is the case that blacks are being disadvantaged.

I am not trying to convince you that you bear any responsibility. If anything, I am simply explaining the responsibilities of being a citizen of the United States of America. I am demonstrating that your position is based upon prejudice and not principle, given that you gleefully accept accrued freedoms and benefits from the sacrifices of OTHERS (not you) in the past, yet, argue you hold no responsibility for liabilities of the nation from the past due to YOU not have taken part in them. When one inherits the estate of America, via citizenship, they inherit the assets and liabilities of that estate. I am not trying to convince you that you are responsibility, rather, I am just demonstrating that you have no principle argument unless racism and hypocricy is your guiding principle.
 
Old 06-25-2008, 07:43 AM
 
12,486 posts, read 7,587,441 times
Reputation: 4755
Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
The effects of past discrimination has impacted black folks negatively. It put us at a disadvantage so that it will take more effort to succeed, and we have to overcome more than the average white person to thrive.

HOWEVER, even though white folks set up the disadvantage through their unequal distribution of resources that went on for centuries, WE PERPETUATE the inequalities to a great extent, THROUGH OUR OWN ACTIONS TODAY. (Which Nearborn has so uneloquently stated.)

We can make our plight easier by - not having children that we don't the financial resources nor the maturity to raise adequately, not having fathers who don't take of their kids, by stressing education and the learning of a skill to succeed in life, by stressing respect for each other and respect for authority/rule of law, discouraging dependence on alcoholic and the abuse of banned drugs.

Those aforementioned things - BLACK FOLK SHOULD BECOME MASTERS OF SUCH THINGS. In all of our actions, we should consider those who preceded us - and live our lives as a tribute to our ancestors who fought and died so that they and their children would be treated as equals.

Our ancestors cannot be proud with these things that we have let ravage our communities - alcoholism, functional illiteracy, father absenteeism, rampant crime, disrespect for authority, people not taking care of their houses/property, poor schools, etc.
You can go back in history and look at things that blacks COULD have done to make their situation better. Even during slavery, one can make arguments about “if blacks would have just…..yadda yadda” things would have been easier. That was true in the past, is true in the present and that will be true in the future. As humans…..we are far from PERFECT and we can ALWAYS be doing things better, regardless of race, color or gender.

The problem is CONTROL. The primary shaper of behavior in a society is CULTURE. Culture today, in the electronic information age, is no longer transmitted by THE COMMUNITY; rather, it’s transmitted over TV, RADIO, MOVIES, MUSIC, THE INTERNET and the like. All these mediums of culture transmission are primarily out of the direct control of blacks to shape or culturally reengineer OUR culture and hence behavior. These mediums are controlled by MONEY and POWER and the economic tyranny of majority rule. Media is beholden to advertising revenues and thus the mediums that shape culture comes under the control of “white” sentiment, given whites are the vast majority and even have a greater majority of the nation’s money and wealth. In other words, media is dependent on whites for advertising revenue.

Politically, whites also have control. They are about 75% of the electorate and they elect representatives to represent and pass laws and policy that deal with THEIR INTEREST AND NEEDS. The problems that get the most attention in America are the problems that are acute in the white community. Thus, when white society is faced with a moral or cultural challenge, they can pass laws and create policy to reengineer society to give incentives for alternative behavior. Blacks and others must make the best out of policy primarily designed to represent and solve problems of white America, via majority rule.

Individualism does not work. That is the problem. Everybody is doing their own thing and what is best for them. Society needs to promote COLLECTIVE interest and it needs to use the government and the media to facilitate the collective interest of society….otherwise it becomes every man and women for him or herself and society degenerates into selfish acts of individuals simly attempting to maximize personal pleasure…..which often causes pain and hardship for others.
 
Old 06-25-2008, 01:48 PM
 
225 posts, read 750,065 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Politically, whites also have control. They are about 75% of the electorate and they elect representatives to represent and pass laws and policy that deal with THEIR INTEREST AND NEEDS.
..and that's why the Democratic nominee for Leader Of The Free World is black. No....wait.......

Tell me, what are white peoples' interests and needs? There are more poor white people than poor black people. There are more poor white kids in crappy schools than poor black kids. There are more white people out of work than black people. So what's the problem?

Let me guess. Black people don't want to elect a person that will help poor people or jobless people. Black people want to elect a person who will help poor BLACK people and out of work BLACK people. Is that it? Does that sum up the white agenda of division and the black agenda of cooperation and unity among all?

I didn't mean to generalize. There are no doubt SOME black people who value what the Republican Party offers. I just went along with the spirt of the post I responded to.
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