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Old 06-17-2008, 05:21 PM
 
5 posts, read 17,536 times
Reputation: 11

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I have been in deep thought since my visit to Detroit. I am from MN and am white. So lets get that out of the way. What I saw when I was there is to me so blatantly what our nation is fast becoming. The now empty former booming plants that employed our nation, created our own products, fed a growing and vastly successful economy is now empty, abandoned...sad.
My uncles home is an older home in Eastpointe...what used to be just an older neighborhood is now 2 blocks from "the warzone". We had warnings to stear clear. This is a nice neighborhood, older homes, some manicured lawns, some, not so much.
The racial slurs I heard were so offensive but were so easily spoken, its a way of life there...here in MN, you would not hear this spoken so freely..I am not saying it doesn't exist but it is not socially acceptable. Is anyone as fed up with the ignorance and to me immorality...if I was black I would be so sick and tired of the color of my skin meaning anything but hey...thats my ancestry..my heritage. There but the grace of god go I???

I am not trying to incite emotion here. I just feel empty...because what Detroit represents is our future...if we don't wise up, take back our United States..take back our streets, start producing our own products, our own resources, create our own jobs, we will fail and lose our freedom...

There is not one single candidate that gets what I am saying so this isn't even political. 9/11 burst the bubble of safety, brought us together for a while, it made us realize we are not insulated from threats... what more is it going to take for us to get it...I love our troops, but boy do I think we have bigger problems right here in our own neighborhoods.

Downtown Detroit is beautiful, I never once felt my safety was in jeapordy..she is my sister city and be proud of the family name you bear and bring it honor and dignity.

Thanks for listening.

 
Old 06-17-2008, 07:21 PM
 
225 posts, read 750,372 times
Reputation: 122
Kind of a catch-22. In order to "create our own products" and pay a wage that people would accept, we'd have to put huge tariffs on similar imported products that are produced by labor that is vastly cheaper. When you use those kinds of tariffs, inflation goes through the roof. That was one of the causes of the Great Depression. It wasn't just about a stock market crash.

I'm no economist, but I've read a little about the Depression and the Smoot Hawley Tariff. Sen. McCain talks about it too whenver the Democrats start talking about saving and developing US jobs in manufacturing by making it too expensive for foreign manufacturers to compete. Good luck. What I think we need is another CCC and WPA. No reason I should have to take a drug test to keep a job to make money to pay for the guy sitting on his ass at home who DOESN'T have to take a drug test to get his share of MY money! Put his ass to work building a nice scenic trail up north that our grandchildren will enjoy 70 or 80 years from now.....They did it during the 30's, they can do it now....
 
Old 06-18-2008, 03:27 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,297,221 times
Reputation: 1864
I noticed that Nearborn did not address the original poster's observations of blatant racial prejudice when he visited his relative in Easpointe. Yet, Nearborn is so quick to point out how racist black folks in Detroit are.

Even though I haven't been around that long, I conclude this: it is white folks that started the racial divide in Detroit. If you check the Census records, there were over 1,500,000 Caucasians living in Detroit in 1950, while there were only 200,000 to 300,000 black folks. Nobody forced white folks to leave. They outnumbered black folk at least 5 to 1! White folks were so quick to leave the city that they built - WHY?

Now to beck952 - We in Detroit definitely need to take back our streets. It starts in the home. People ain't bein' raised right! Too many of my fellow resident don't respect anyone. They have little ambition outside of "hustlin" and "pimpin"! They live for today, not preparing for the future.

About the jobs, if we can get folks in the city to buy into the concept that the white folks in the suburbs seem to understand - that is, hardwork and discipline along with education or training is the key to success - I think we can attract jobs and create our own.
 
Old 06-18-2008, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Garden City, MI
695 posts, read 3,161,074 times
Reputation: 152
We can't always look at the past as to who started what. Sure white people left the city because it was becoming a bad place to live. Sure, maybe they should not have all left. We can't dwell on old things anymore. The whole issue was compounded by Coleman Young and his anti-white sentiments and policies. I think there are many people in Detroit who cater to a certain mentality that they don't WANT white people back. And if we're not wanted, why come? It reminds me of an interview I once saw on PBS or something. A very well educated black man was being interviewed about a project that the mayor of Gary IN had spearheaded. It was building many condos and storefronts in the downtown area. A lot of people felt good about it. The man that was interviewed said he was hoping the project would turn out to be a failure. The interviewer was puzzled. When asked why, the man replied "Gary is a black city, we took it from the white people, and we are going to rule it" or something to that effect. The mayor that had spearheaded this project was a white mayor, whose election was a surprise to the community, since mostly black people had held the seat. The man didn't want a white man to fix Gary, he only wanted a black person to rule the city, even if it meant there was no improvement. I think there is a good deal of this mentality, specifically among the leaders of Detroit right now, certainly not the whole city, but of a number of important people.
 
Old 06-18-2008, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Home!
8,710 posts, read 10,613,665 times
Reputation: 8512
Racism works both ways. Just because you are white does not mean you are the racist. Cardwellave is right, much of the black community (not all)wanted it this way. They lived in the past that their great-great-great someone or another was a slave to a white person. Then there were the whites that couldn't get past the fact that black people were below them. This altogether created a situation where like races chose to live with like races. Neither could get off their high horses and come together for the greater good. Ridiculous. The blame slinging has got to stop before any of this can ever be put back together. I do not see it happening in my lifetime or my children's. I do believe that it has gotten a little more acceptable in the suburbs then it used to be, but there is still a long way to go.

When people fear for their children's welfare and their own, they tend to find a safer place. Do not throw blame all on the white population. If that were the case, there would be no minority families living in the suburbs, because Lord knows it is cheaper living in most areas of Detroit. Minorities are fleeing out of there too.
 
Old 06-18-2008, 04:53 PM
 
225 posts, read 750,372 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
White folks were so quick to leave the city that they built - WHY?
Perhaps because they saw this writing on the wall?

Quote:
People ain't bein' raised right! Too many of my fellow resident don't respect anyone. They have little ambition outside of "hustlin" and "pimpin"! They live for today, not preparing for the future.
Or perhaps they knew that there would be a whole bunch of people who are so dumb that you actually have to convince them that:

Quote:
..... hardwork and discipline along with education or training is the key to success -
Or maybe they just didn't want to live in a mixed community. You still can't force people to live where they don't want to live if they can afford something better.

Quote:
I noticed that Nearborn did not address the original poster's observations of blatant racial prejudice when he visited his relative in Easpointe. Yet, Nearborn is so quick to point out how racist black folks in Detroit are.
The suburbs aren't clamoring for help from Detroit, but fine, want me to address that? In Eastpointe, two blocks from the warzone, some people are apparently prejudging black people based on the fact that the warzone is populated by virtually all black people. The leadership of the warzone wants to be large and in charge, while at the same time blaming European-Americans for their woes as if some type of paternalistic relationship exists. "We want what you can give us, but we don't want you to tell us how to use it." "We don't want you to make any decisions in the war zone, but we want you to fund the war zone."

Did you know this: For many years, if you were charged with a felony in Wayne County, your jury would be comprized ONLY of Detroit residents. Your judge would have been elected by ONLY Detroit voters. This was changed several years ago and now Wayne County Circuit Court summons potential jurors from all of Wayne County, and not just Detroit, and Wayne County Circuit Court Judges are elected county-wide and not just by Detroiters. Think the previous arrangement could have caused some resentment?
 
Old 06-18-2008, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Garden City, MI
695 posts, read 3,161,074 times
Reputation: 152
Eastpointe is generally fine by the way. It's like pretty much any border community, worse on the side closer to Detroit. Two blocks from 8 Mile is probably a little sketchy, getting better as you get further up. It's a shame the house you had to sell was so close to Detroit.
 
Old 06-19-2008, 11:52 AM
 
12,545 posts, read 7,612,822 times
Reputation: 4765
I agree with the sentiments that America is on a downward slide economically, politically, socially and culturally and that Detroit is a leading indicator or example of what the future holds. I also think you are very perceptive and I appreciate a view from someone on the outside (of Detroit area) looking in…..however….everyone has biases and I don’t know what yours may be and how they influenced what you observed or chose to observe vs. what simply just stood out.

Let me say this in response to some of the comments: If you punch me in the face, without provocation on my part, violence can then be said to work both ways.... because I am for damn sure going to punch you back! By the same token, and ONLY by the same logic, racism works both ways. The key law of nature, including human nature, is that actions produce reaction. What many white folks do is try to “Normalize” their racism by focusing on black reaction to their racism. Again, you punch me in the face then attempt to normalize your act and create a false moral equivalence by focusing on my REACTION to your instigating ACTION. The fact that I don’t do as Jesus would do and turn the other check and offer forgiveness without animosity…..supposedly makes me as bad as you for punching me. That’s how you want to frame black resentment, but one would have to have profound credulous to fall for such foolishness.

You cannot keep screwing people over and then expect the victims or their descendents to let by gone be by gone. Of course….that works for you. If I could cheat and get ahead in a game of poker accruing an advantage at the expense of the other players…..of course I would want to let by gone be by gone and keep the accrued benefits of my cheating while the other players are stuck with the their accrued losses. One would expect that a person of the type of character to cheat in the first place would also be of the type of character that will not want to address or reconcile past cheating. It’s called moral bankruptcy. If an entity did not have a vested interest in cheating….they never would have done it. So once the cheating has “stopped” the goal of the morally bankrupt is to PRESERVE the benefits of past cheating by resisting any an all attempts to reconcile it…..in PRINCIPLE.

What people ought to realize is that life among humans is a competition. It’s like a relay race with each generation passing the baton to the next generation as we race against one and other for economic opportunities. Each subsequent generation inherits the starting position provided by the previous generation. It’s an unbroken continuum that links the past to the present. Thus, people who ignorantly attempt to dismiss the influence of past racism on the present condition in African American in the race for opportunity does reality a disservice. Many black families of the prior generation were stunted due to racism and hence when and where they passed the baton to the next generation was at a disadvantage to white families who were not stunted by hurdles and obstacles to their forward progress like Jim Crow and massive racial discrimination…..North and South. So the past never stops impacting the present because the present will forever be the culmination of the past….with a slight mutation.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; 06-19-2008 at 12:31 PM..
 
Old 06-20-2008, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Home!
8,710 posts, read 10,613,665 times
Reputation: 8512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
I agree with the sentiments that America is on a downward slide economically, politically, socially and culturally and that Detroit is a leading indicator or example of what the future holds. I also think you are very perceptive and I appreciate a view from someone on the outside (of Detroit area) looking in…..however….everyone has biases and I don’t know what yours may be and how they influenced what you observed or chose to observe vs. what simply just stood out.

Let me say this in response to some of the comments: If you punch me in the face, without provocation on my part, violence can then be said to work both ways.... because I am for damn sure going to punch you back! By the same token, and ONLY by the same logic, racism works both ways. The key law of nature, including human nature, is that actions produce reaction. What many white folks do is try to “Normalize” their racism by focusing on black reaction to their racism. Again, you punch me in the face then attempt to normalize your act and create a false moral equivalence by focusing on my REACTION to your instigating ACTION. The fact that I don’t do as Jesus would do and turn the other check and offer forgiveness without animosity…..supposedly makes me as bad as you for punching me. That’s how you want to frame black resentment, but one would have to have profound credulous to fall for such foolishness.

You cannot keep screwing people over and then expect the victims or their descendents to let by gone be by gone. Of course….that works for you. If I could cheat and get ahead in a game of poker accruing an advantage at the expense of the other players…..of course I would want to let by gone be by gone and keep the accrued benefits of my cheating while the other players are stuck with the their accrued losses. One would expect that a person of the type of character to cheat in the first place would also be of the type of character that will not want to address or reconcile past cheating. It’s called moral bankruptcy. If an entity did not have a vested interest in cheating….they never would have done it. So once the cheating has “stopped” the goal of the morally bankrupt is to PRESERVE the benefits of past cheating by resisting any an all attempts to reconcile it…..in PRINCIPLE.

What people ought to realize is that life among humans is a competition. It’s like a relay race with each generation passing the baton to the next generation as we race against one and other for economic opportunities. Each subsequent generation inherits the starting position provided by the previous generation. It’s an unbroken continuum that links the past to the present. Thus, people who ignorantly attempt to dismiss the influence of past racism on the present condition in African American in the race for opportunity does reality a disservice. Many black families of the prior generation were stunted due to racism and hence when and where they passed the baton to the next generation was at a disadvantage to white families who were not stunted by hurdles and obstacles to their forward progress like Jim Crow and massive racial discrimination…..North and South. So the past never stops impacting the present because the present will forever be the culmination of the past….with a slight mutation.
I do agree with some of what you are saying. Regarding the action/reaction theory: this works without judgement if you are a stick of dynamite. You then have no choice in your reaction. But as we are not chemical components that have no choice, I do not buy it for the human race. Does it happen? Yes. All the time. I believe it is a copout set forth to excuse bad/wrong behavior. Fact is, we have free will to make different choices. It is the only thing that differentiates us from the animal kingdom. If I get punched in my face, my reaction may be to punch back-BUT I DON'T HAVE TO. I can take a different path. I can CHOOSE this. I do not have to perpetuate it nor do I have to believe that it is my right to do so. I can break the chain.

Same can be used for the past influences. We can choose to start a better life whether we started behind the pack or not. Or we can choose to whine that we did not get the same headstart that the Smith family got. That behavior will always leave us behind. So, using your race theory, anyone of the relay competitors could conceivably come from behind, push a little harder, run a little faster, complain less about the fact that they didn't have the headstart, quit blaming, and eventually pass the team that started ahead. It can be done, I have seen it. I have also seen people sitting on the sidelines, going nowhere for lack of trying. Most definitely, you can look at someone like Oprah who is a prime example of not letting her past hold her back. I applaud her and her efforts.

Complaining about what the past did to your family or whether it was fair or not does not do anyone any justice for the future. It holds back your growth. It creates anger and resentment.

I do not say that the past should not be acknowledged, it should for historical purposes so as to learn by it and not repeat that history.
 
Old 06-20-2008, 10:30 AM
 
12,545 posts, read 7,612,822 times
Reputation: 4765
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimba01 View Post
I do agree with some of what you are saying. Regarding the action/reaction theory: this works without judgement if you are a stick of dynamite. You then have no choice in your reaction. But as we are not chemical components that have no choice, I do not buy it for the human race. Does it happen? Yes. All the time. I believe it is a copout set forth to excuse bad/wrong behavior. Fact is, we have free will to make different choices. It is the only thing that differentiates us from the animal kingdom. If I get punched in my face, my reaction may be to punch back-BUT I DON'T HAVE TO. I can take a different path. I can CHOOSE this. I do not have to perpetuate it nor do I have to believe that it is my right to do so. I can break the chain.

Same can be used for the past influences. We can choose to start a better life whether we started behind the pack or not. Or we can choose to whine that we did not get the same headstart that the Smith family got. That behavior will always leave us behind. So, using your race theory, anyone of the relay competitors could conceivably come from behind, push a little harder, run a little faster, complain less about the fact that they didn't have the headstart, quit blaming, and eventually pass the team that started ahead. It can be done, I have seen it. I have also seen people sitting on the sidelines, going nowhere for lack of trying. Most definitely, you can look at someone like Oprah who is a prime example of not letting her past hold her back. I applaud her and her efforts.

Complaining about what the past did to your family or whether it was fair or not does not do anyone any justice for the future. It holds back your growth. It creates anger and resentment.

I do not say that the past should not be acknowledged, it should for historical purposes so as to learn by it and not repeat that history.
I thought we are a carbon based life form? Don’t you know that chemical reactions manifest in human (life) physiology and behavior? Have not you ever heard of people with chemical imbalances? What gets me is the assumption that humans can and do somehow defy the universal laws of nature. As if we are greater than nature……God like if you will. Well….not to many black folks think we are super natural and above it all….because of the unique abilities of our cerebral cortex.

If, God forbid, someone close to you died…..do you keep yourself from feeling sad? I mean….you have free will and all……but a chemical reaction will be triggered in your body, from the act of death of a loved one, that will naturally result in the reaction of sadness. That’s how things work guy. I understand the point you are trying to make, but the point is essentially in defiance of the law of nature. Actions will always produce reactions whether in humans or sticks of dynamite. To deny that is the real cop out.

So essentially, what you are hoping for is that black’s folks defy nature and feel only LOVE and JOY, despite 400 years of racial degradation by white society? You did not do as Jesus would do…..but you want us to be Jesus like in our response to devilish mistreatment and when we don’t, but instead manifest resentment and distrust at the oppressing group…..we are just as bad. Nope….it just does not work that way in the real world. Why don’t we love the terrorist who flew Airplanes into buildings on 911? We have free will. Why don’t we love murders instead of locking them up in jail? We have free will. Given free will…….we should never act with anger….only love and compassion….and it’s a cop out to rationalize behaving any other way….as I am sure you have never gotten angry or reacted negatively, to negative actions toward you….in your life. Why don’t I believe that?

Every emotion we have is due to it playing a role in our survival. To turn off certain emotions, as you propose, would threaten survival and not enhance it.
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