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Old 06-18-2008, 10:14 PM
 
214 posts, read 997,727 times
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They seem to be going through some tough times with schools shuttering and enrollment decline. They are also 400m in the red. Is there a chance of a turn around.
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Old 06-19-2008, 02:54 AM
 
60 posts, read 350,987 times
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I Would Hope So They Kind Of Have Hit Rock Bottom Though. I Attended Detroit Public Schools And They Were Horrible And People Were Opting For The Burbs And This Was 10-15 Years Ago So Detroit It Long Overdue For A Turnover.
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Old 06-20-2008, 11:54 AM
 
5,114 posts, read 4,825,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam721 View Post
Is there a chance of a turn around.
In a word, no.

All school operations are funded by the state thru revenue raised via the Michigan Sales tax. Funding supplied to the schools is on a per student basis.

The Detroit Public School system looks to be caught in a vicious downward spiral.
  1. Less Students = Less Money. Some students leave for suburban schools, for charter schools, or for private schools. This means that the school system receives less money.
  2. Less Money = Less Teachers. Less money means less support for teacher salaries; either teachers take a pay cut or the number of teachers get cut, either through layoffs, retirement w/o replacement, voluntary exit of teachers from the school district to another district, or voluntary exit of teachers from the profession.
  3. Less Teachers = Larger Class Sizes. The optimum class size some say is around 15 or 20 students for each teacher; however, teacher layoffs and attrition may ballon that to 30-40 students per class for each teacher. When I was in gradeschool, a class size of 45 wasn't unheard of (tail end of the Baby Boom).
  4. Less Money = Less Activities. Less money means that some school extra-curricular activities and "non-essential" classes get trimmed back or eliminated.
  5. Less Money = Less Maintenance. Less money means that the schools go without some necessary maintenance, i.e. new roofs, new paint on the walls, etc.
  6. Larger Class Sizes + Less Activities + Less Maintenance = Less Students. If you could get your children into a better school system with smaller class sizes, more activities, and better facilities, you probably would. Those who can't get out are trapped in the downward spiral.
Others may have more reasons, these are the ones that I picked to show what I believe to be a cyclic problem. I'm not a teacher, I'm not a school administrator, I don't have kids in school. This is just a view from the outside looking in.

I had hoped that shifting school funding from the local level to the state level might have stopped the spiral by pumping more money into the DPS than they had been receiving from local taxation. This change in funding may have slowed the spiral, but it hasn't stopped it.

Putting even more money into the DPS system might help, but it would probably need a truely massive infusion. Rebuild and restructure the infrastructure of the system, both physical and organizational. Hire more teachers to reduce class sizes. Reinstate cut courses and extracurricular activities. However, in a state with a shrinking economy and its own budget deficits, this is something that's not politically possible.

I'm hoping that there is a solution to this problem, but for now the only possibility that I can see is massive federal funding, perhaps a matching of federal funding to state/local funding.
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Old 06-20-2008, 06:45 PM
 
52 posts, read 248,625 times
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Even I have no faith in DPS.
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Old 07-21-2008, 04:21 PM
 
214 posts, read 997,727 times
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Thanks all for answersing sorry to bring back an old thread but whats happening with the first class district controversy. Are they going to change it from 100000 to 60000 or what if so whats this mean for dps the deficit will not be 400 mil since they changed the law and what about the 95 school closings planned for 2009.
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Old 09-17-2008, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Home!
8,710 posts, read 10,618,434 times
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What happened to the lottery money going to the schools?

If you can't get the kids to care, half the battle is lost.
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Old 09-17-2008, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
27,781 posts, read 65,708,971 times
Reputation: 32980
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
In a word, no.

All school operations are funded by the state thru revenue raised via the Michigan Sales tax. Funding supplied to the schools is on a per student basis.


The Detroit Public School system looks to be caught in a vicious downward spiral.
  1. Less Students = Less Money. Some students leave for suburban schools, for charter schools, or for private schools. This means that the school system receives less money.
  2. Less Money = Less Teachers. Less money means less support for teacher salaries; either teachers take a pay cut or the number of teachers get cut, either through layoffs, retirement w/o replacement, voluntary exit of teachers from the school district to another district, or voluntary exit of teachers from the profession.
  3. Less Teachers = Larger Class Sizes. The optimum class size some say is around 15 or 20 students for each teacher; however, teacher layoffs and attrition may ballon that to 30-40 students per class for each teacher. When I was in gradeschool, a class size of 45 wasn't unheard of (tail end of the Baby Boom).
  4. Less Money = Less Activities. Less money means that some school extra-curricular activities and "non-essential" classes get trimmed back or eliminated.
  5. Less Money = Less Maintenance. Less money means that the schools go without some necessary maintenance, i.e. new roofs, new paint on the walls, etc.
  6. Larger Class Sizes + Less Activities + Less Maintenance = Less Students. If you could get your children into a better school system with smaller class sizes, more activities, and better facilities, you probably would. Those who can't get out are trapped in the downward spiral.
Others may have more reasons, these are the ones that I picked to show what I believe to be a cyclic problem. I'm not a teacher, I'm not a school administrator, I don't have kids in school. This is just a view from the outside looking in.

I had hoped that shifting school funding from the local level to the state level might have stopped the spiral by pumping more money into the DPS than they had been receiving from local taxation. This change in funding may have slowed the spiral, but it hasn't stopped it.

Putting even more money into the DPS system might help, but it would probably need a truely massive infusion. Rebuild and restructure the infrastructure of the system, both physical and organizational. Hire more teachers to reduce class sizes. Reinstate cut courses and extracurricular activities. However, in a state with a shrinking economy and its own budget deficits, this is something that's not politically possible.

I'm hoping that there is a solution to this problem, but for now the only possibility that I can see is massive federal funding, perhaps a matching of federal funding to state/local funding.



You lost me at step 3. If you have fewer teachers because you have less moeny due to fewer students, how do you end up with larger class sizes. It seems to me that fewer students = smaller class sizes, or a prorata reduction in teachers that leave the class sizes the same. In Detroit I believe that the financial problem is not the amount of funding going to the schools, but the amount that is wasted and/or embezzled.

The second question is the extention of the logic here. By this logic, all larger schools would be better than smaller schools. That is not the case. Big schools get into a lot of problems that can be avoided by keeping schools (and districts) smaller. A school small enough that all of the teachers know all of the students and actually talk with each other and with parents about the students, can perform far better than a mega school where both students and teachers may see each other for only one class in the entire four years.

All schools have good teachers and cruddy teachers. Union rules prevent the schools from hiring only good teachers and getting rid of the crummy ones. Thus, more money does not result in better teachers.

What will turn the Detroit schools around is a change in the parent's attitudes. The charter schools are not more successful because they have more money. They are successful because they are filled with students who have parents who value education and pass that value on to their children. We lived in a very impoverished area that had a subsystem of "fundamental schools" which were schools that required a signed commitment from students and parents and very strict rules. These were public schools (not charter). The students generally did extremely well, far better than the other public schools. However, there was no difference in the parents income level, the teacher's pay level, or any other financial attribute. Money does not make good schools. Students who try and parents who care are the only thing that can make schools good.

The problem is how do you break the chain of parents who do not care gnerating children who become parents who do not care? I have no ideas on that.
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Old 09-17-2008, 06:05 PM
 
225 posts, read 750,708 times
Reputation: 122
I think the only hope for education in Detroit is charter schools and vouchers for parents who pay to send their kids to private schools. DPS is done. No hope whatsoever except for a very few schools like Renaissance High School. There is no WAY DPS shold be getting as much money as they are. I'd LOVE to know how many kids drop out or are otherwise NOT in school after the official count is taken at the beginning of the year.

DPS is collecting unjustified MILLIONS from the taxpayers based on "ghost students". They should base the money for schools on a count taken in the middle of the year on a day chosen at random.
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Old 09-17-2008, 08:25 PM
 
214 posts, read 997,727 times
Reputation: 100
I heard something about a state takeover is that true?
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Old 09-18-2008, 02:11 PM
 
225 posts, read 750,708 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
I heard something about a state takeover is that true?

The Feds are finally kicking Jenny Grandemole out?!?!?!?! Yay!!!!
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