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Old 01-02-2009, 06:45 PM
 
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For instance, my family moved out of our city in the early 80's not to move away from other Blacks, but to move to a place with a good educational system, among other things and did it with an open mind.
What was wrong with Cass Tech and Renaissance in the early 80's, not to mention all the good private schools in the city? I left because of crime and too many dope houses in the area.


The broken infrastructure you fled (like the rest of us) hasn't been controlled by white people for a very long time. My point is that given the alternative, living in a majority white area shouldn't been seen as too much of a "sacrifice".

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Remember, that most Blacks regardless of income levels were indirectly or even is some cases directly, forced into living in neighborhoods that were segregated through redlining and other means.
When? 40 or more years ago?

Last edited by and the; 01-02-2009 at 07:41 PM..
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:45 PM
 
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please read the posts by dre 71. that says enough. the reality is that whites have no problem living with blacks, as long as it doesn't increase crime or cause problems at schools etc. if the nicest neighborhoods in michigan were 90% black, and the school districts were great and the crime was low i think whites would move into those neighborhoods in droves. the real problem is ghetto verse not ghetto. detroit is ghetto. there is a high black population in belleville, but belleville is nice, thus belleville is integrated. open your eyes.
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:53 PM
 
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than your obviously familiar with the area. is it possible that the white people moved out due to the crime and poor school system just like you.

i have plenty of black friends. i'd be happy to have them live next to me, but that doesn't make me want to move to detroit. why? crime...poor schools.

as a matter of fact, i don't want to live in a white neighborhood with high crime and bad schools.
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by and the View Post
What was wrong with Cass Tech and Renaissance in the early 80's, not to mention all the good private schools in the city? I left because of crime and too many dope houses in the area.


The broken infrastructure you fled (like the rest of us) hasn't been controlled by white people for a very long time. My point is that given the alternative, living in a majority white area shouldn't been seen as too much of a "sacrifice".



When? 40 or more years ago?
I'm not from Detroit, but I'm familiar with the area. I don't know, but I think there is just too much history in the area and I think it depends on where you are in the area too. Like someone said, Belleville is integrated. Romulus is another community that is in the area too. So, there are exceptions. I think the history is different in that part of the metro area too. Southfield has changed a lot, but it didn't look bad when I was there about 10-11 years ago. Not sure about integrated communities like Oak Park and Ferndale. Farmington/Farmington Hills seems to be alright and would probably be where I would live in the area and it has a history as an underground railroad town too. Warren has changed a lot too, as it used to have unwritten restrictions in terms of housing, but that seems to have changed. Again, I know what some have said on here, but I still think there is a lot of history that needs to some closure in the area in general. Considering that Southwest Detroit is really the only integrated part of the city, how is that area doing?
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by renter8319 View Post
please read the posts by dre 71. that says enough. the reality is that whites have no problem living with blacks, as long as it doesn't increase crime or cause problems at schools etc. if the nicest neighborhoods in michigan were 90% black, and the school districts were great and the crime was low i think whites would move into those neighborhoods in droves. the real problem is ghetto verse not ghetto. detroit is ghetto. there is a high black population in belleville, but belleville is nice, thus belleville is integrated. open your eyes.
I know Detroit is ghetto in a lot of areas, but there are actually some nice neighborhoods there too. While they don't get the recognition or are overshadowed by the rough areas, they are there. What about Indian Village, Corktown, Boston-Edison, Palmer Woods, Parkland, Rosedale Park, Virginia Park, West Village and Woodbridge?

Also, how are Chadsey, Western International, Southwestern(to some degree, relatively) and Cass Tech(relatively) still integrated?
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I know Detroit is ghetto in a lot of areas, but there are actually some nice neighborhoods there too. While they don't get the recognition or are overshadowed by the rough areas, they are there. What about Indian Village, Corktown, Boston-Edison, Palmer Woods, Parkland, Rosedale Park, Virginia Park, West Village and Woodbridge?

Also, how are Chadsey, Western International, Southwestern(to some degree, relatively) and Cass Tech(relatively) still integrated?
even in indian village a lot of people have bars on there windows and have bums walking down the street. the constantly get stuff stolen. a neighborhood with nice houses, doesn't make a good neighborhood. also, there are only houses in indian village. what about when those people run up to the gas station. or the convenience store. it's like being a prisoner in your own home. i used to work on those houses in indian village and all the other areas you named. they all have the same problems.

p.s. indian village is a highly white area
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:12 AM
 
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[quote=and the;6807539]They didn't integrate the area because they were "willing to live around whites", they did it because they refused to live around their old neighbors, who were...guess who? I'm as anti white flight as the next guy, but let's not be naive.


When you say their "Old neighbors", assuming intelligence on your part, I take it that you mean the Racist segregated Jim Crow South where most lived before they migrated to Michigan. Right? You do understand that is where blacks in Michigan came from. Right? Yes.....blacks left their old neighbors in the South in search of freedom and opportunity and equality up north. What they found was a different degree of racism.....one that did not ban them like in the South with "whites only" signage.....but who abandoned communities when blacks arrived in numbers.
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Interesting and there are many places where things like what you said happened.

Also, keep in mind that certain industries were looking for Black labor. Think about cities like Detroit(auto/steel), Gary(steel), Oakland(shipping), St. Louis/East St. Louis(auto/steel), Buffalo(auto/steel), Youngstown(steel) and the Pittsburgh area(steel/coal). they all were areas with industries like the auto, steel and shipping industries that have a history of looking for Black people to work. These were industries that allowed Blacks to have a chance at middle class life and most were encouraged to come around the World Wars, when much of the man power was gone to fight in those wars. I think that is a part of the reason why there has been some tension and/or segregation in these cities to varying degrees. These cities have all fell on hard times when these industries have declined over the last few decades. In turn, many Whites left these cities for suburbs or these areas altogether, while Blacks, who's main reason for being in these cities have declined, generally stay.
What say is very true in regards to the PULL factor that brought blacks up north from the south. Lets be honest however.....in that Jobs/opportunity to raise families and the like is the primary reason most people relocate, black or white. Moreover, it explains why so many blacks migrated to the Detroit area......however....it does not explain why Detroit is 80%....the City of Detroit should be, with equal demographic distribution of races, 20% black, along with the Gross Pointes and the Wealthy Oakland County suburbs.....as Metro Detroits 5 million people are 20% black.
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:51 AM
 
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I lived in the City of Detroit for about 8 years after I graduated from high school and left SE Grand Rapids. You have to recognize the economic trade deficit that exists in America. Blacks spend about 95% of their disposable income in businesses that are not black owned. This simply amounts to a transfer of wealth and opportunity from blacks to whites, Chaldeans and others. Most white dollars are spend in white owned businesses…..not necessarily by intent…..but by effect, but the result is that whites don’t transfer away their wealth to others…..thereby keeping their communities viable…..er….uh….that is before they transferred their wealth to the Chinese, Japanese and Oil producing nations (which is why this nation is in the decline from that transfer of wealth). So buying black is like buying American…..conceptually......but different in that its motive is to make black businesses viable and it attempts to appeal to blacks not to spend ALL of their money outside their community….because that is what impoverishes a community.

I heard the New Orleans mayor say that he was against the efforts to keep many New Orleans blacks from coming back…..as there was reported an effort to gentrify the city by keeping many of the poor (who were mostly black) out. That is when he responded by saying that New Orleans was a “chocolate” city and wanted it to return to being what it was before Katrina. I never heard such words from a Detroit mayor……not that they have never uttered such……but I never heard such.

The city of Detroit proper once contained about 2 million people in the 1950’s. Today it has less than half of that. When half the population of a city leaves, leaving behind the structures they once occupied, abandonment leads to deterioration, dilapidation and decay. When communities go from owner occupied to rentals, slum landlords who are simply looking to collect a rent check without having to keep up the properties (thus maximizing their profit margins)……communities decline. Yes….and there is a percentage of EVERY group that does not keep up their properties regardless….who brings communities down. Moreover, the rate of black poverty nationally is 3 times the rate of white poverty and the rate of black wealth is 10 times less than whites nationally. It cost money to maintain homes and communities…..otherwise they will deteriorate and loose value and whites historically have had access to much more money and opportunity than black. If you don’t believe that statement….then look up American History from 1609 to 1970 and see if you can find any information that indicates what I said was true.

What is truly amazing to me is that this country had two centuries of racial slavery followed by a 100 year apartheid that lasted to the civil rights movement of the 1960’s, when the finals laws of racial oppression were dismantled (laws did not change attitudes and beliefs for a long time however)……yet….few are mentioning this history in explaining the evolution of the current state of racial reality manifesting as the City of Detroit and its 85% black population. The present is the creation of the past. The past is the recipe of ingredients that go into making the present. Yet……many of you are purposely leaving out the key ingredients that made up this reality. Shame on you!
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:08 AM
 
12,486 posts, read 7,583,753 times
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Originally Posted by renter8319 View Post
please read the posts by dre 71. that says enough. the reality is that whites have no problem living with blacks, as long as it doesn't increase crime or cause problems at schools etc. if the nicest neighborhoods in michigan were 90% black, and the school districts were great and the crime was low i think whites would move into those neighborhoods in droves. the real problem is ghetto verse not ghetto. detroit is ghetto. there is a high black population in belleville, but belleville is nice, thus belleville is integrated. open your eyes.
So are you suggesting that blacks like living in crime infested communities, don't like living in nice neighborhoods and don't value sending their kids to good schools? Do you think blacks propensity for LOVE and DESIRE is less than whites? I don't get it. Again......look at SouthField Michigan, which has nice middle class neighborhoods, low rates of crime (most crime in the city is related to Northland Shopping Center)......it went from majority white to Majority black.

Now....to be honest.....the effect of much of the behavior of whites is racist.....but not the intent. I am not arguing that it is the intent of whites to be racist or do harm....but that is an effect. Historically blacks were simply put at a disadvantage by 300 years of oppression and hence do not have the wealth, capital or access to capital to create the type of communities that white income, wealth and capital creates. So in the juxtaposition of white communities to black communities......this difference is as profound as American history that created it.
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