Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
How come I keep saying "Detroit" and you keep saying "black"?
How much time must pass before we can reasonably consider this historical poverty affliction to be irrelevent? When can we consider a black person in Detroit, who despite years of affirmative action and the fact that 90 percent of Detroit is black and controlled by black people....when can we consider him lazy when he can't get a job as opposed to historically afflicted? At what point can we consider him irresponsible for having more kids than he can afford to support? And at what point can we consider the city of Detroit to be more afflicted with lazy people or criminal people than historically afflicted black people? I'm guessing you're going to tell me that that point will never be reached. How come so many black people from Detroit can succeed and leave (or stay as the case may be) when so many others can't seem to get past the historical affliction?
I don't know how much time has to pass. There are no case studies of humans having been enslaved for centuries, freed, then living in peonage as share croppers aparthied for another century before they gained LEGAL equality while still enduring rampant discrimination long after they won their civil rights. You tell me. When does the present become unrelated to the past? If you have not already decided that the black past in America is unrelated to its black present.....I am sure that you are salivating for that day just so you can talk down about black...er....uh....Detroiters behavior without having the history of white Americas behavior thrown back in your face.
PS
The reason that I keep saying black is because you are not man enough to say it....but you are so transparent that I cut through the euphamism of the code word "Detroiters". We all know what that implies.....especially in a topic that ask why the city of Detroit is 80% black (its actually closer to 90% black).
While they may have desired to integrate, they also brought the problems and issues from Detroit with them, causing the whites to move out.
Yes....because many present white Americans cannot live with the resultant creation of many past white Americans....in regards to the behavior of present blacks. If you don't treat people like excrement for centuries.....maybe you would not have a problem with the smell.....and hence not have to move. Its the black stink that white stink created. The problem is....however.....yaw don't or can't smell yourselves.
"If your "vast majority" is over 60 percent, you're not driving through the same Detroit I am. Either that or our ideas of "keep up" differ."
Let's be real, sir. The vast majority of dilapidated houses (not owned by the government) are owned by suburbanites (either black or white, but mostly white) who rent them out. Most only care about making money on the rent, they are not going to make the house look really nice. Its an investment insomuch as to collect rent, not to re-sell it, so upkeep is not a priority.
It just does not make sense for a homeowner-occupier to pay all that money for a house and pay property taxes and not keep the value of the property up for re-sell in the future.
Also, you stated earlier:
"Because I don't live in Appalachia, I live just outside of Detroit, after fleeing Detroit like my ancestors fled Appalachia."
You are trying to equate the exodus from Appalaphia to the exodus from Detroit, but they are NOT analogous. I don't know your family history, but your ancestors probably left Appalachia to find work in the factories in Detroit. I doubt you fled Detroit to find a job. (But it's a free country, you can live where you want to live).
"and the" also stated:
"The race of people who don't take the initiative to improve their lot despite haveing the ability to do so is incidental to the fact that the reason the place is a pit is because so many people of the same philosophy and lack of values live in the same area. It's getting old, and it's getting more and more generational."
Maybe the reason the place is a pit is because so many people of the DIFFERING philosophy did not have the balls to stay and fight the decline. So what, a few blacks moved in. That doesn't mean that everybody has to BAIL! If those first few blacks could afford to buy in your neighborhood, then they most likely are going to be good responsible neighbors. But if all the whites now start bailing, resulting in plummeting of property values, then lower income blacks (and whites) and renters are going to move in.
From what I've read, it seems that you stayed in Detroit long after the decline began. You should be commended. Maybe instead of getting mad at the lower class people who moved into your neighborhood, you should be mad at the "responsible", middle class folk who bailed and left good people like you an ever-shrinking minority in your 'hood. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO SET THE DECLINE IN MOTION, in my opinion.
Last edited by usroute10; 01-05-2009 at 06:30 AM..
Reason: Because I wanted to
"If your "vast majority" is over 60 percent, you're not driving through the same Detroit I am. Either that or our ideas of "keep up" differ."
Let's be real, sir. The vast majority of dilapidated houses (not owned by the government) are owned by suburbanites (either black or white, but mostly white) who rent them out. Most only care about making money on the rent, they are not going to make the house look really nice. Its an investment insomuch as to collect rent, not to re-sell it, so upkeep is not a priority.
It just does not make sense for a homeowner-occupier to pay all that money for a house and pay property taxes and not keep the value of the property up for re-sell in the future.
Also, you stated earlier:
"Because I don't live in Appalachia, I live just outside of Detroit, after fleeing Detroit like my ancestors fled Appalachia."
You are trying to equate the exodus from Appalaphia to the exodus from Detroit, but they are NOT analogous. I don't know your family history, but your ancestors probably left Appalachia to find work in the factories in Detroit. I doubt you fled Detroit to find a job. (But it's a free country, you can live where you want to live).
"and the" also stated:
"The race of people who don't take the initiative to improve their lot despite haveing the ability to do so is incidental to the fact that the reason the place is a pit is because so many people of the same philosophy and lack of values live in the same area. It's getting old, and it's getting more and more generational."
Maybe the reason the place is a pit is because so many people of the DIFFERING philosophy did not have the balls to stay and fight the decline. So what, a few blacks moved in. That doesn't mean that everybody has to BAIL! If those first few blacks could afford to buy in your neighborhood, then they most likely are going to be good responsible neighbors. But if all the whites now start bailing, resulting in plummeting of property values, then lower income blacks (and whites) and renters are going to move in.
From what I've read, it seems that you stayed in Detroit long after the decline began. You should be commended. Maybe instead of getting mad at the lower class people who moved into your neighborhood, you should be mad at the "responsible", middle class folk who bailed and left good people like you an ever-shrinking minority in your 'hood. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO SET THE DECLINE IN MOTION, in my opinion.
The reason that I keep saying black is because you are not man enough to say it....but you are so transparent that I cut through the euphamism of the code word "Detroiters". We all know what that implies.....especially in a topic that ask why the city of Detroit is 80% black (its actually closer to 90% black).
Nope, I know too many successful and upstanding black people to use "Detroit" as a euphamism for "Black". To me, a Detroiter is a Detroiter whether he is white outlaw biker in Brightmoor or a black gangster on 7 Mile or someone of any race just trying to hang on in Detroit instead of the suburbs for whatever reason.
"Black" stopped being a euphamism for "oppressed in Detroit" in my vocabulary a long time ago. In fact at least as early as the Coleman Young administration.
On another subject, what's your take on Willis Anthony?
Quote:
You are trying to equate the exodus from Appalaphia to the exodus from Detroit, but they are NOT analogous. I don't know your family history, but your ancestors probably left Appalachia to find work in the factories in Detroit. I doubt you fled Detroit to find a job. (But it's a free country, you can live where you want to live).
I'm not trying to equate it with anything. You're trying to put words into my mouth. I was responding to this:
Quote:
then why is the 85% black city of Detroit the topic of discussion and not some area that is 85% white with the same problems?
Is Appalachia or is Appalachia not a majority white area with the many of the same problems of Detroit? Which 85% white area like Detroit did you have in mind? My ancestors had jobs in Appalachia. In fact, they were most likely a lot closer to being "indentured servants" than you can relate to. They left Appalachia to find a better life. And as Gentiles in a Jewish neighbhorhood, they saw the writing on the wall after 1967, and when the Jews in their neighborhood started moving to Southfield, pretty much en masse, they moved farther west in Detroit. And when the decay moved into their far west side neighborhood, the next generation moved into the suburbs for a better way of life. Until I moved back into the city for most of my adult life. At some point I realized that if you stopped banging your head against a wall, it would stop hurting, and I got out too. What DO you think Detroiters should take responsibility for? It seems like every obstacle they face is someone else's fault to you.
And how much guilt do Black people have for the decline of Detroit when they flee the city? White folks sold out and left and are to blame. But when Black people leave it's only because they're seeking what they deserve in the better services of the suburbs? No obligation to stick around and fill the vaccuum?
Well to accept your explanation I would have to assume that racism is absolute. In other words, I would have to believe that racism ONLY manifest when one sees every, without exception, member of another or a particular race to be inferior or negative in some aspect of their life relative to the race of the person who is looking down upon the other. That’s not how it works, however. Racism is not about how you judge individuals as much as it is about how you judge the group as a whole. In other words, it’s the GENERAL RULE but exceptions are understood. Its like the racist bell curve theory or racial intelligence. It does not conclude that every white person is smarter than every black person and it does not conclude that a black person cannot be among the extremly intelligent. However, it does include that the average black is significatly less intelligent than whites, as the GENERAL RULE. Thus, the fact that you know some outstanding and upstanding black folks does not mean that you see that as the general rule for black folks…..at least not as much as it may be the general rule for white folks.
I would venture to guess that most of the people you know and live around are white. I would ask you to quantify what percentage of white people you know and have meet are outstanding and upstanding juxtaposed with the percentage of blacks you feel meet those conditions. Granted, that is anecdotal, but your suburban world is mostly white. You sought refuge in a mostly white community while being a refugee from a mostly black community that you do nothing but condemn. You cannot clean that up now by stating that you know some upstanding black folks. Heck…..I know some outstanding white Basketball players in the NBA…..does that therefore mean that I don’t believe that Blacks dominate the NBA? Of course not! So don’t try those fallacies of composition on me…..I am not an idiot of human nature and or logical deduction.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 01-06-2009 at 07:26 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
