Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: D-town (technically a suburb, cause "and the" said so)
90 posts, read 207,123 times
Reputation: 41
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by and the
Sure. After my third move within the city, from a deteriorating neighborhood to one that wasn't as bad, I moved to the western Wayne suburbs. Next move will be west of the Mississippi. And you?
Vague, but OK. So you still live in Metro Detroit, but you completely disassociate yourself with anything related to the city and put down anyone who tries to be optimistic. Maybe, a few of us would like to see Detroit thrive again. I happen to believe that change begins with attitude.
Vague, but OK. So you still live in Metro Detroit, but you completely disassociate yourself with anything related to the city and put down anyone who tries to be optimistic.
No, I try to encourage people to take off the rose-colored glasses and direct their energy somewhere other than meaningless cheerleader campaigns, because more important than attitude is a realistic assessment of the problem. Detroiters elected Kwame Kilpatrick.....TWICE. Monica Conyers was the president of the City Council. There has never been a realistic assessment of the problem by Detroiters. If there had been, a guy like Kwame would never have been elected the first time, and you wouldn't even know Monica's name.
Do you have any idea how much money is wasted on feel-good crap to promote Detroit, or more likely, to promote the promotors? I don't either, but I know it's way more than anyone SHOULD be spending. The cheery suburbanite "telling them I'm from Detroit" is not a Detroiter. A Detroiter is more likely the poor guy who can't afford to move and who has to sit in his bunker (not in Indian Village, Sherwood Forest, Palmer Woods or East English Village) all day because the police response time is often measured in days and not minutes like it is in West Bloomfield.
The "things will get better with the right attitude" approach is no better than the awnings they put on the windows of the vacant buildings so People Mover riders would be blissfully unaware.
If you want to consider yourself a Detroiter, be a tangible part of the solution and move into the city. Especially if you don't have kids to worry about. If I didn't have kids there's a good chance I'd be living in Detroit right now. Otherwise, tell 'em you're from "the Detroit area" or "outside Detroit" or "metro Detroit".
Detroit will start to get better when all the suburbanites who spend their money there stop saying "I'm proud of Detroit" and start saying "Detroit really sucks, and I'm not spending a dime there until there are drastic changes in leadership, management and philosphy." Until then, we in the suburbs are barely "Metro Detroiters", let alone "Detroiters". In fact, we're little more than customers held hostage by the Detroit Water Deparatment and the ones who financed Detroit's whole 800 megahertz radio system. The only thing we are to Detroit leadership are "those people who keep trying to steal our jewels....like Cobo Hall and the Auto Show." Ask Monica Conyers or Kwame Kenyatta or Joanne Watson. They'll tell you. Yes, strides have been made in the Downtown area, but frankly, I think it's more like "Illitchworld" than "The D".
So, what part of "The D" did you move back to? Warrendale? East English Village? Southwest Detroit? Or are you actually in "The WC", like me? Are you at least in "The 313"?
Location: D-town (technically a suburb, cause "and the" said so)
90 posts, read 207,123 times
Reputation: 41
1. No, I try to encourage people to take off the rose-colored glasses and direct their energy somewhere other than meaningless cheerleader campaigns,
2. The cheery suburbanite "telling them I'm from Detroit" is not a Detroiter.
3. The "things will get better with the right attitude" approach is no better than the awnings they put on the windows of the vacant buildings so People Mover riders would be blissfully unaware.
4. So, what part of "The D" did you move back to? Warrendale? East English Village? Southwest Detroit? Or are you actually in "The WC", like me? Are you at least in "The 313"?[/quote]
1. Rose colored glasses? Really? No one said Detroit didn't have it's problems so I don't see where your cliche is even relavent. Everyone ACKNOWLEDGES there are major problems that need to be addressed immediately.
2. FYI, I am the "cheery suburbanite" who started the thread. Is that a shot at me? Again, who appointed you the authority on who is and is not a "Detroiter"? Who are you to tell a person who shops in Detroit, roots for Detroit sports teams, is knowledgeable about the goings on in the city, and was born and raised here, that he cannot consider himself a "Detroiter"? You see, you are part of the problem. You see a clearly defined line between the city and the 'burbs, and your angst only promotes the problem. Monica Conyers is the same way. Until we ALL put that mentality behind us and start working together, improvements will be minimal. You don't seem to realize that what happens in the city affects the suburbs and vice versa. Money crosses city borders in both directions, thus making us all dependent on one another.
3. I never said, "things will get better with the right attitude", so don't put quotes around it and attempt to make it mine. What I said is that CHANGE BEGINS with the right attitude. Can you see the difference? CHANGE BEGINS. I fully acknowledge the problems SE Michigan has and I wouldn't be so naive as to believe a positive attitude is the ultimate solution.
4. I live in Wayne County in the suburbs and I'm definitely not ashamed of it. I do not live in the city proper, but have no problem going into the city for shopping, sporting events, etc. Any yes, I can consider myself a DETROITER. I support the economy on both sides of the city limits. You do not have to live in the city proper to claim allegiance to the city. That is why they are called the Detroit Pistons and not the Auburn Hills Pistons.
We all depend on each other, whether we want to acknowledge it or not. The 'burbs need the city and the city needs the 'burbs. Look at Los Angeles. There are people who live in the 'burbs, but consider themselves from LA. Why? Because major cities are responsible for the growth to the suburbs and just because you do not live in a certain city, doesn't mean you don't have a rooting interest.
Finally. If you have such a problem with the city and it's suburbanites, just move. Don't wait to get "west of the Mississippi", just go. I don't mean this in an angry or disrespectful way, but you are part of the problem and we (Metro Detroiters) don't need that. We need people willing to make positive changes with positive attitudes. I'm sorry you completely mis-interpreted the meaning of the thread, but that's your problem, not mine. And again, if you can't stand the city or the 'burbs, why even waste your time talking about it? You could be spending that time planning your move.
The part about being from Detroit that is actually worthy of some type of pride is being FROM Detroit, as in "not there anymore". That is, working hard enough and smart enough to get the hell out so you can raise your family somewhere else with decent schools where your kids can ride their bike around the block when it's dark out. That's what I'm proud of. That I USED to live in Detroit but don't anymore. That I made the sacrifices necessary to escape and raise my family somewhere other than Detroit. THAT you can be proud of.
Amen to that....
I'm glad i'm nowhere near Detroit where i grew up at! It's so darn depressing going back down there from time to time to see family. I usually avoid such trips like the plague.
As much as i want Detroit to do well for herself, it'll be some time before she escapes the perpetual cycle of poverty and dysfunction.
You other people can have Detroit, sorry to say.
I'm glad i moved away, one of the best things i've done for myself to be able to raise a family and enjoy life as seen fit.
And I can't stand people who live in Novi and say they're from Detroit. Actually, I'm sure they're nice people...I just don't like the whole idea of leading people to believe that Detroit has so much in common with the suburbs that it's not a lie for someone from West Bloomfield to tell unsuspecting rubes that they're a Detroiter. It's a contradiction in terms for anyone who actually knows anything about Detroit, or who is now, or has ever actually BEEN from Detroit......At least come up with a new name like "Detroitland", like Chicago does. Novi ain't Detroit, and if you're from Novi, you're as far away from Detroit as Earth is from Mars.
Also.....why would you be "proud" of being from Detroit? Because you're too poor to move anywhere else? Too dumb? A glutton for punishment? The type who keeps touching the stove burner again and again? Have no desire to have kids and reproduce, and thus have no need to leave Detroit for a place where you can raise a child? Are childless married people actually proud of being childless by choice?
Being "proud" of being from Detroit is like being proud of your ethnic heritage for the sake of being proud of your ethnic heritage alone, having no idea of any accomplishments that might justify some sort of vicarious pride. You really had no choice in the matter...so why not be proud of having blue eyes or brown hair while we're at it?
Nah, being from Detroit may be a novelty if you're actually from the city and find yourself in polite company in another town in another state......If you're from the suburbs and tell someone in Podunkia that you're from Detroit, it's just a masquerade.....which is also a book by Lowell Caufiel....Now THERE'S a guy, Dr.Canty I mean....who was proud of being "from Detroit", and look where it got HIM! Now he's from all OVER Michigan.
You really must not like Detroit. I there anything besides Detroit you hate? Also, tell me what would happen to your community if the big three entirely went down, perhaps with your hatred of Detroit you wouldn't feel sorry for every people who would loose their job with kids and a spouse. However when prosperity does return to Detroit, I guess I'll still see you on the other sied of telegraph and 8 mile huh.
Again, who appointed you the authority on who is and is not a "Detroiter"?
A "Detroiter" is one who lives in Detroit. A "former Detroiter" is one who used to live in Detroit and a "suburbanite" is one who lives in a suburb of Detroit. Pretty simple really. You didn't really think JFK was from Berlin, did you?
Quote:
I do not live in the city proper
"City proper"? You mean there is some other city of Detroit outside the boundaries of the city of Detroit? Of course there isn't, which is why you're not a Detroiter.
Quote:
You really must not like Detroit.
Actually, I loved Detroit. But when the city failed to hold up its end of the bargain one too many times, I left. BUT, it can not be said that I didn't make an effort as a Detroiter. One who owned property and paid taxes there. For those of you who have never lived in the city as adults and have such great attitudes about the city, and who have no kids, why don't you live in the city and pay taxes there?
Quote:
However when prosperity does return to Detroit, I guess I'll still see you on the other sied of telegraph and 8 mile huh.
When and if that day comes, your great, great grandchildren may be seeing mine. Detroit has gone nowhere but down since the end of WWII (that's close to 70 years now), and there's no reason to believe that "prosperity is going to return to Detroit" during our lifetimes or those of our kids and grand kids. I suggest you move to the suburbs and develop the political clout to move the Detroit boundary southbound from 8 Mile, back toward the original Fort Detroit. That way you can redevelop "the city formerly known as Detroit" from the outside in, because it's not going to happen from the inside out. The Chinese will take over the city before that happens.
Location: D-town (technically a suburb, cause "and the" said so)
90 posts, read 207,123 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by and the
A "Detroiter" is one who lives in Detroit. A "former Detroiter" is one who used to live in Detroit and a "suburbanite" is one who lives in a suburb of Detroit. Pretty simple really. You didn't really think JFK was from Berlin, did you?
"City proper"? You mean there is some other city of Detroit outside the boundaries of the city of Detroit? Of course there isn't, which is why you're not a Detroiter.
Actually, I loved Detroit. But when the city failed to hold up its end of the bargain one too many times, I left. BUT, it can not be said that I didn't make an effort as a Detroiter. One who owned property and paid taxes there. For those of you who have never lived in the city as adults and have such great attitudes about the city, and who have no kids, why don't you live in the city and pay taxes there?
When and if that day comes, your great, great grandchildren may be seeing mine. Detroit has gone nowhere but down since the end of WWII (that's close to 70 years now), and there's no reason to believe that "prosperity is going to return to Detroit" during our lifetimes or those of our kids and grand kids. I suggest you move to the suburbs and develop the political clout to move the Detroit boundary southbound from 8 Mile, back toward the original Fort Detroit. That way you can redevelop "the city formerly known as Detroit" from the outside in, because it's not going to happen from the inside out. The Chinese will take over the city before that happens.
Yeah, unicorns.
What? Not mention of your attempt to twist my words? Thanks for playing "and the" you may leave now.
In the category of "no one really cares what I think on a public posting board anyhow" I'd like to state that I side with "and the". He made his points well and defended them even better IMHO.
Saying your from a city when you really aren't has always been one of my pet peeves. I don't know why but it just bugs me. I suppose it's because I work in a technical field and it just disturbs my sense of order, and accuracy. Anyhow, my wife does this all the time too - "Oh hello, so you're from Chicago"? "Well I'm from Chicago to". ....Then I remind her- no dear you grew up in Mundeline about 40 miles from the city. Then she gets pissed and its to the couch for me, all for trying to be accurate.
I am now west of the Mississippi as well. I didn't grow up in Detroit (about an hour south but I never tell anyone I'm from Toledo because I'm not. Now I mostly weep for Detroit once a truly great city with so much history and now with seemingly so little hope.
How will this city be rebuilt?
Do you believe the govt' will pump money into it until it is prosperous again?
Do you believe some new business or industry will take root and blossom organically like the automobile industry did many years ago?
What industry would that be?
Do you believe any existing companies are willing to risk their money and invest in Detroit when they have a smorgasbord of competition from so many other states, (right to work states).
Who wants to put a business in Detroit which has a heavy union influence? Unions at all levels are self serving entities whose main goal is survival and perpetuation. They redirect capital away from innovation and investment into activities that could help a business truly innovate, better serve customers, and therefore allow the company to prosper offering the best opportunity for employers and employees alike. Now they are the parasite trying to survive with out killing the host and willing to take any amount of tax payer money in the process. Any company anywhere in the world having witnessed the last 50 or so years of this symbiotic employer/union relationship will think twice, or maybe not even at all before locating in Detroit.
IMHO a litany of some of the big problems facing us and not unique to Detroit.
Sense of morality is questioned.
Lost sense of right and wrong.
Shame for actions gone - no accountability.
Ethics and morals - going...going....most likely gone...
Broken families and broken homes.
25% graduation rates.
Teen pregnancy.
Who is your daddy DNA testing bill boards.
Family - the foundation of society has broken down. Neighboorhods, Communities, townships, counties, and cities are sure to follow.
Look to the govt' for solutions.
Welfare programs
Nanny govt' grows. cradle to grave programs.
Many people work in and depend on the nanny govt'
Generational welfare.
It's now part of the fabric of society.
Too many people with a vested interest in truly changing it.
Tax payers and tax consumers - More people taking from than contributing to the system.
Tipping point is reached - downhill slide continues.
Political Correctness - Can't question or challenge sacred cows.
Solution? more of the same - govt' proposed solutions.
Results ? more of the same- more govt' programs bleeding us dry.
A modern day progressive dream is realized.
Democrats and Republicans are interchangeable these days. They keep us arguing on posting boards everywhere while it's business as usual.
It's been a long slippery slide but it appears were falling faster and faster to the bottom.
When will we find the bottom and start climbing our way back up?
Will the govt' lead us back up and show us the way, or will we realize we're responsible for ourselves?
I don't know the solutions but this is what I'll try to do:
Take accountability for my own actions in success and failure.
Look inward and upward for solutions not to the govt.
Pursue freedom. freedom to succeed, freedom to fail - free to try again.
Vote for those who believe in freedom.
Vote for those who uphold the law.
Cut my neighbors grass if he can't get to it.
Yell at my kids when they need it. Yell at other kids when they need it too.
Location: D-town (technically a suburb, cause "and the" said so)
90 posts, read 207,123 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman
No, I think "and the" explains exactly what is wrong with Detroit.
If you think he is twisting your words, quote him, quote yourself, and then explain why his interpretation is not correct.
OK Vicman, you asked for it...
I said: "I happen to believe that change begins with attitude."
"and the" quoted me as saying: The "things will get better with the right attitude" approach is no better than the awnings they put on the windows of the vacant buildings so People Mover riders would be blissfully unaware.
Notice Vicman, the quotes he put around it. Notice the missing key words "change begins". Notice "and the's" credibility circling the drain. Need I explain any further?
Furthermore, you said: "No, I think "and the" explains exactly what is wrong with Detroit."
I say: Where did I ever dispute Detroit had problems? Please, by all means, show me. I believe I even acknowledged the problems many times. I merely said we as Metro-Detroiters (happy and the?) need to start changing our attitudes about where we live, whether it be the city or the burbs. CHANGE BEGINS WITH ATTITUDE. You can quote me on that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. Now I mostly weep for Detroit once a truly great city with so much history and now with seemingly so little hope. 
