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Old 06-15-2009, 09:41 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,090 posts, read 27,671,735 times
Reputation: 7812

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Go outside. THe sun is shining now.


For the OP, if you are thinking about coming here, make sure that you like all four seasons. If you feel like you cannot live except in the summer, you will be miserable here. If you like all four seasons and you can find a job, you will love it here.

Come on up. ENJOY the sun, the BEAUTY of he STATE and DIVERSITY of the SUBURBS...and TRY to find employment?

Not in SouthEAst Michigan...unless you pay cash for your house and can survive on $6.75 hour...oh...my bad, there aren't ANY of thos jobs either in SOutheast Michigan...

But it is a BEAUTIFUL state with GORGEOUS 4 SEASONS.

Welcome to Bagdad (aka Detroit)
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:44 AM
 
11,151 posts, read 15,187,566 times
Reputation: 4209
I think Coldjensens summed it up best in post #6.

Those who hate Michigan tend to list "snow" as the first negative. A lot of people really love the 4 seasons. People are flocking to places like Colorado and Utah and I never hear anyone complain about snow there. Places like Finland and Norway are perennially ranked as the highest quality of life in the world (and there's not a big difference between the UP and Finland, thus why so many settled there). Even in New England, where I lived for a while, people enjoy the 4 seasons.

I don't get what it is about people in Michigan complaining so much. I, personally, think that's just a product of the sedate society we have become in which any experience that is not completely physically pleasant is hard to handle. Thus, the love of automobile dependence rather than getting out and walking.

People who love the 4 seasons don't sit inside and wait like our friend from Gwinn does. They ski and skate and snowboard and snowshoe and camp and go to poetry readings at coffee shops or symphony orchestra performances or theater performances or art galleries or sporting events or anything else that is within an easy drive of Gwinn. But, s/he is young and from an isolated small town, so it's good to get out and see the world.



In general:

Michigan is truly one of the most beautiful states and is sitting on a gold mine with its fresh water (let's pray the leadership continues to see value in protecting it). I've been to a lot of beautiful places, and the northwest corner of the lower peninsula as well as the U.P. shorelines and the "arts coast" of Michigan hold their own with any of them.

Judging Detroit by the city would be like judging L.A. by South Central and ignoring Hollywood, Beverly Hills, etc... Taken as a metro area, Detroit has a very high quality of life. Just doesn't have a stable city anchoring it, so it's very sprawling. Plus, the western half of Michigan has some nice cities (Kalamazoo, Grand Rapids).

Since I was a child people have complained about its dependence on one industry. I think they're finally realizing that you need to compete for quality of life in this day and age to attract businesses. If they create transit, walkability, and really highlight the natural beauty, there's no reason Michigan couldn't become a destination again.
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:50 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,083 posts, read 37,516,623 times
Reputation: 16989
Key points that a lot of people who move into the State somehow miss.
Also a lot of people who live here try to look at the entire State through their own personal situation. If I am unemployed, that doesn't mean everyone is unemployed or under-employed. If I had troubles with snow, it doesn't mean everyone has problems with the snow. If I were having trouble with people, it doesn't mean everybody in the State is nasty. If I don't like an area, it doesn't mean it is the largest suck-hole on Earth. All those would just mean I personally was having trouble, not everyone else around me or in the same State.

snow and cold: No kidding, it's Michigan, not Florida or the California Coast. Anybody who moves into Michigan and complains about these is showing their lack of common sense and forethought. ANY small bit of information gathering will result in knowing that every place in Michigan gets cold and some snow. Either don't move here to begin with, or don't complain about it when you do get here.

Lack of jobs: No kidding, Michigan has lead the nation in unemployment for several years. If you move here I would hope it is WITH a job already lined up, if not, see above. That holds true for any state though. Moving without employment secured is rather stupid, and has been for DECADES. Sure years ago you could just go and find something minimum wage to hold you over, but those days have been gone for a long time.

The People: From my travels and places I have lived, I have come to the conclusion that people are about the same no matter where you go. If you find them to be unfriendly and cold, it could be your attitude that is influencing their interactions with you. I know I have zero tolerance for those who move someplace then complain about it (especially the weather). Don't like it; the same road that brought you here, will take you away just as easily. This is NOT just for Michigan either. I heard people complain about everything in Maine, as well as Texas when I lived in those locations also.

Government: Never have I seen anyplace where there isn't complaints about wasteful spending, politicians who don't listen, care, do, etc....

Taxes and fees: These are rather easy to look at BEFORE coming into an area, don't move then act all excited because taxes are higher than they were "back home". If everything was so rosy there, why did you leave? Taxes are easy to research, as are water, sewer, Natural Gas, Propane, trash pick-up, phone, cable, internet, cell service, etc... charges. No reason to be surprised except for lack of caring beforehand. Tickets - Are you for real lovindfw? Tickets - handed out if you are breaking a law or local ordinance. Don't break the rules, you won't get a ticket. I can truthfully say I have NEVER been handed a ticket of any type that I didn't have coming. If you have gotten a ticket for "nothing" then fight it, if by "nothing" you mean by doing something that is against the law you don't feel should be, then too damn bad; either work to change the laws, or stay within them.

Is Michigan going down the drain? Nope! Hard times right now is a definite yes though. Not everybody who wants to work can find it, not everybody who owns a home has equity anymore. Not everybody can pay their bills and are looking at loosing a LOT if not everything. You can find stories like that in EVERY state right now though. Will Michigan pull through? Yes it will. Will it be the same as before? It better NOT be. That is why we are feeling it as a State sooner and harder than other States. The State as a whole was too willing to sit on it's collective hands and enjoy the ride without trying to grow and diversify.
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Wyandotte, MI
364 posts, read 847,482 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Ilive in a subu7rb and work in Dowontown Detroit. I lived in Orange County CA for 18 years prior to moving here.

Michigan is a beautiful State with terrific people. The economy is terrible. There are parts of Detroit that are horrid. Probably do resemble bagdad, but I have never been to bagdad so I do nto know. I would bet that the people who compare Detroit to Bagdad have never actually been to either place. I stay out of those parts of Detroit

Downtown Detroit is pretty neat. It has some nice areas and there are some decent places to visit. It is very empty on weekends,except in certain areas or when htere are events.

Detroit Metro has a better collection of really nice suburbs and small towns than anywhere I have ever been. the variety is amazing. Other places have some suburbs that are as nice or nicer, but no where that I have ever seen has so many nicesuburbs and so much variety in types of suburbs. It really is a wonderful place.

Michigan is neat. There is reasoonably clean fresh water everywhere. Forests abound even in the towns and smaller cities. Wherever you are, you can drive half an hour or less and find roadside farm stands during the harvesting seasons. Since we are cooped up for at elast some of the time in the winter, people really let go and enjoy the outdoors in thenice weather. Winter cna actually be fun too. (It just lasts too long())

The economy is a mess. It is not destroyed entirely, but things are very tough. Unemployment is high and it is climbing. The State lacks good leadership and many of the cities are worse. There are soem jobs, not many, but they are out there. Uemployment would be higher, but a lot of the people who get laid off, leave. The economy will probably get somewhat worse before it begins to get better. We are probably looking at another two years before there is any sign of recovery. Michigan will probably be a bit behind the rest of the country in recovery and it will never fully recover. OTher industries will step in to replace the auto industry, but Michigan will not likely be the powerhouse of industry that it was. One thing that will turn things around is all of the fresh water. Water is becomming a precious and rare commpodity and we have loads of it.
This is a great post. While I have only ever LIVED here in the Detroit suburbs, I have visited many other cities and their surrounding areas (St Louis, Chicago, Orlando, L.A., Buffalo, Cincinatti, Cleveland) and no one has the variety that the Detroit suburbs have. There is everything from the modern, trendy, cookie-cutter mcmansion suburbs, to those rich in historic value with beautiful old colonial and victorian homes, to the rural towns, etc etc. And good point about Detroit...downtown is nice and actually safer than many other downtowns (it is other areas of the city that "resemble baghdad" as some like to say).

And the rest of MI outside of the metro areas...what can you say? There isnt a soul alive who cant say its gorgeous up north. Forests, lakes, beaches, sand dunes, rivers...those "Pure Michigan" commercials speak the truth.
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Wyandotte, MI
364 posts, read 847,482 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
Come on up. ENJOY the sun, the BEAUTY of he STATE and DIVERSITY of the SUBURBS...and TRY to find employment?

Not in SouthEAst Michigan...unless you pay cash for your house and can survive on $6.75 hour...oh...my bad, there aren't ANY of thos jobs either in SOutheast Michigan...

But it is a BEAUTIFUL state with GORGEOUS 4 SEASONS.

Welcome to Bagdad (aka Detroit)
Unemployment could be 80% (being sarcastic here of course) and that doesnt change the diversity and BEAUTY of this gorgeous state.

I get SO sick or hearing there arent ANY jobs, either, because that is false.

But maybe youre right, maybe people should leave MI and its 13% unemployment to go to your areas in North Carolina, and their economic boom of only 11% unemployment.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Wyandotte, MI
364 posts, read 847,482 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
I think Coldjensens summed it up best in post #6.

Those who hate Michigan tend to list "snow" as the first negative. A lot of people really love the 4 seasons. People are flocking to places like Colorado and Utah and I never hear anyone complain about snow there. Places like Finland and Norway are perennially ranked as the highest quality of life in the world (and there's not a big difference between the UP and Finland, thus why so many settled there). Even in New England, where I lived for a while, people enjoy the 4 seasons.

I don't get what it is about people in Michigan complaining so much. I, personally, think that's just a product of the sedate society we have become in which any experience that is not completely physically pleasant is hard to handle. Thus, the love of automobile dependence rather than getting out and walking.

People who love the 4 seasons don't sit inside and wait like our friend from Gwinn does. They ski and skate and snowboard and snowshoe and camp and go to poetry readings at coffee shops or symphony orchestra performances or theater performances or art galleries or sporting events or anything else that is within an easy drive of Gwinn. But, s/he is young and from an isolated small town, so it's good to get out and see the world.



In general:

Michigan is truly one of the most beautiful states and is sitting on a gold mine with its fresh water (let's pray the leadership continues to see value in protecting it). I've been to a lot of beautiful places, and the northwest corner of the lower peninsula as well as the U.P. shorelines and the "arts coast" of Michigan hold their own with any of them.

Judging Detroit by the city would be like judging L.A. by South Central and ignoring Hollywood, Beverly Hills, etc... Taken as a metro area, Detroit has a very high quality of life. Just doesn't have a stable city anchoring it, so it's very sprawling. Plus, the western half of Michigan has some nice cities (Kalamazoo, Grand Rapids).

Since I was a child people have complained about its dependence on one industry. I think they're finally realizing that you need to compete for quality of life in this day and age to attract businesses. If they create transit, walkability, and really highlight the natural beauty, there's no reason Michigan couldn't become a destination again.
Love the line "Taken as a metro area, Detroit has a very high quality of life. Just doesn't have a stable city anchoring it, so it's very sprawling" because its soo true.

And about the 4 seasons, I know tons of people who love them....its always the complainers that are heard.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,324 posts, read 75,323,905 times
Reputation: 38544
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
Come on up. ENJOY the sun, the BEAUTY of he STATE and DIVERSITY of the SUBURBS...and TRY to find employment?

Not in SouthEAst Michigan...unless you pay cash for your house and can survive on $6.75 hour...oh...my bad, there aren't ANY of thos jobs either in SOutheast Michigan...

But it is a BEAUTIFUL state with GORGEOUS 4 SEASONS.

Welcome to Bagdad (aka Detroit)

Where do you live? I do not think that there are any jobs available at $6.75 an hour.

My daughter graduated from High Schoiol last week and now has a job paying more than that. With relatively little effort, my wife found a couple of job options in the $10 -12 hr range. My brother lost his job a month or two ago and found a better paying job in a week and a half. He makes in the high $20 or low $30 an hour range. (Unfortunately working at (not for) Chrysler - he got laid off of a few days in the bankruptcy but is now back to work). He had to switch from building compressors to repariing forklifts which he had never doen before, but he is a quick learner and is already a valued employee.

There are jobs. They are hard to find and may not be what you did or want to do, but there are jobs here and there. It is bad but not all that much worse than some of the huge population centers like New York and LA.


It is true that houses are so cheap in some places that you can pay cash. However most people get traditional loans. Again the availability of morgages is not worse than other places. Houses are readily avlaiable at low prices becuase a lot of people lost their jobs and abandoned their homes.

As I said, anyone who compares all of Detroit to Bagdad, obviously has not been to downtown Detroit in a while. But then maybe parts of Bagdad are really nice too. Who knows?

If you are lumping the suburbs into that comment, then you are being just plain silly. The suburbs are wonderful. You can have any kind of lifestyle that you choose and can afford. Small town, trenty small city, suburban sprawl, shopping mecca, rural villiage, we ahve everything and most are nice and with really good schools.

Is it just Michigan, or do people from other places also whine and complain constantly on these boards and say that any place other than where they are must be better when they have no real knowlege? It is frustrating. If you hate life where you are so much, get up off your rear and go somewhere else. It is nto that hard. Get in your car and go. If you do not have a car, take the bus. If you cannot afford a bus, it is summer - Walk. There is no excuse for being miserable and doing nothing about it.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Wyandotte, MI
364 posts, read 847,482 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand View Post
Key points that a lot of people who move into the State somehow miss.
Also a lot of people who live here try to look at the entire State through their own personal situation. If I am unemployed, that doesn't mean everyone is unemployed or under-employed. If I had troubles with snow, it doesn't mean everyone has problems with the snow. If I were having trouble with people, it doesn't mean everybody in the State is nasty. If I don't like an area, it doesn't mean it is the largest suck-hole on Earth. All those would just mean I personally was having trouble, not everyone else around me or in the same State.

snow and cold: No kidding, it's Michigan, not Florida or the California Coast. Anybody who moves into Michigan and complains about these is showing their lack of common sense and forethought. ANY small bit of information gathering will result in knowing that every place in Michigan gets cold and some snow. Either don't move here to begin with, or don't complain about it when you do get here.

Lack of jobs: No kidding, Michigan has lead the nation in unemployment for several years. If you move here I would hope it is WITH a job already lined up, if not, see above. That holds true for any state though. Moving without employment secured is rather stupid, and has been for DECADES. Sure years ago you could just go and find something minimum wage to hold you over, but those days have been gone for a long time.

The People: From my travels and places I have lived, I have come to the conclusion that people are about the same no matter where you go. If you find them to be unfriendly and cold, it could be your attitude that is influencing their interactions with you. I know I have zero tolerance for those who move someplace then complain about it (especially the weather). Don't like it; the same road that brought you here, will take you away just as easily. This is NOT just for Michigan either. I heard people complain about everything in Maine, as well as Texas when I lived in those locations also.

Government: Never have I seen anyplace where there isn't complaints about wasteful spending, politicians who don't listen, care, do, etc....

Taxes and fees: These are rather easy to look at BEFORE coming into an area, don't move then act all excited because taxes are higher than they were "back home". If everything was so rosy there, why did you leave? Taxes are easy to research, as are water, sewer, Natural Gas, Propane, trash pick-up, phone, cable, internet, cell service, etc... charges. No reason to be surprised except for lack of caring beforehand. Tickets - Are you for real lovindfw? Tickets - handed out if you are breaking a law or local ordinance. Don't break the rules, you won't get a ticket. I can truthfully say I have NEVER been handed a ticket of any type that I didn't have coming. If you have gotten a ticket for "nothing" then fight it, if by "nothing" you mean by doing something that is against the law you don't feel should be, then too damn bad; either work to change the laws, or stay within them.

Is Michigan going down the drain? Nope! Hard times right now is a definite yes though. Not everybody who wants to work can find it, not everybody who owns a home has equity anymore. Not everybody can pay their bills and are looking at loosing a LOT if not everything. You can find stories like that in EVERY state right now though. Will Michigan pull through? Yes it will. Will it be the same as before? It better NOT be. That is why we are feeling it as a State sooner and harder than other States. The State as a whole was too willing to sit on it's collective hands and enjoy the ride without trying to grow and diversify.
Another great post.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Gwinn, Michigan
72 posts, read 142,532 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
I think Coldjensens summed it up best in post #6.

Those who hate Michigan tend to list "snow" as the first negative. A lot of people really love the 4 seasons. People are flocking to places like Colorado and Utah and I never hear anyone complain about snow there. Places like Finland and Norway are perennially ranked as the highest quality of life in the world (and there's not a big difference between the UP and Finland, thus why so many settled there). Even in New England, where I lived for a while, people enjoy the 4 seasons.

I don't get what it is about people in Michigan complaining so much. I, personally, think that's just a product of the sedate society we have become in which any experience that is not completely physically pleasant is hard to handle. Thus, the love of automobile dependence rather than getting out and walking.

People who love the 4 seasons don't sit inside and wait like our friend from Gwinn does. They ski and skate and snowboard and snowshoe and camp and go to poetry readings at coffee shops or symphony orchestra performances or theater performances or art galleries or sporting events or anything else that is within an easy drive of Gwinn. But, s/he is young and from an isolated small town, so it's good to get out and see the world.



In general:

Michigan is truly one of the most beautiful states and is sitting on a gold mine with its fresh water (let's pray the leadership continues to see value in protecting it). I've been to a lot of beautiful places, and the northwest corner of the lower peninsula as well as the U.P. shorelines and the "arts coast" of Michigan hold their own with any of them.

Judging Detroit by the city would be like judging L.A. by South Central and ignoring Hollywood, Beverly Hills, etc... Taken as a metro area, Detroit has a very high quality of life. Just doesn't have a stable city anchoring it, so it's very sprawling. Plus, the western half of Michigan has some nice cities (Kalamazoo, Grand Rapids).

Since I was a child people have complained about its dependence on one industry. I think they're finally realizing that you need to compete for quality of life in this day and age to attract businesses. If they create transit, walkability, and really highlight the natural beauty, there's no reason Michigan couldn't become a destination again.
Bluefly: great post. Sorry i had seemed so harsh in my post. I was born and raised in Michigan. I just dont care for all the things you listed there.

Listening to poetry, symphony orchestra, theatre performances arent my cup of tea.

I am more of an outdoors sunny weather type of guy. My wife and I love four wheeling and riding sand dunes (which is why we want to go southwest, california has 165,000 acres of dunes open to atv's, arizona has 65,000 acres of designated dune/sand riding area, and michigan has 5,000 acres of dunes). We also love swimming, walking, and bike riding. Those are our top things to do for rec activities.

Thats my reason for wanting to leave, i feel like i wait around during winter to go like heck in spring and summer. I feel like i am missing out on half of my life...(ie: winter months) We aren't skiers or snowboarders. We like snowmobiling but its so expensive we cannot afford it anymore.

I thought i would extend my posting so i didn't come across as such a "basher" or "hater". That wasn't my reason for posting at all.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:23 AM
 
11,151 posts, read 15,187,566 times
Reputation: 4209
Yeah, I was going to say that most people who like 4 wheeling in the summer tide themselves over with snowmobiling in the winter, but then I kept reading and saw that that's at least temporarily out of the question for you.

One of my good friends grew up in the U.P. and went into deep depression in the winter months and he had to get out. It was like biological and nothing he could control. So, I don't begrudge people for hating winter if they really can't stand it, I just challenge them to find a climate that suits them. For me, I've found I can't stand the sweltering heat and rather enjoy the brisk air. I'd much rather layer up than claw at my skin because even that is one layer too many.
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