Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The Masai have little heart disease, and most of their food (the men anyway) is from meat. It's as simple as that. A diet of mostly meat can be healthy.
No, its not as simple as that, their most consumed food item is milk. They drink a lot of raw milk as is typically the cause of nomadic herders. The Masai have a high fat diet, they don't subsist primarily on meat and they consume domestic animals....not wild animals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
Whatever you eat, it has to be turned into glucose then ATP before it can be used for energy, so it doesn't matter much whether you eat proteins or carbs.
No, though your body can convert protein into glucose (up to 250~300 grams/day), your body cannot convert fat into glucose. Your cells, except some brain cells, have the ability to utilize fats directly. That is the point of low-carbohydrate diets, to force your body into a state of ketosis which is when it starts burning fat for energy instead of glucose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
As for the limit, I'd need to see a good source for that, especially seeing as how there are so many tribes and individuals that subsist on a high protein diet
Any human biology textbook and there are no such tribes, you just think there are.... All the cultures that subsist on a diet of primarily animal foods have a high fat diet, there is no culture that subsists primarily on wild game. But here is a citation for you:
"Dangers of excessive protein, defined as when protein constitutes > 35% of total energy intake, include hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia nausea, diarrhea, and even death (the "rabbit starvation syndrome").
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,198,444 times
Reputation: 8105
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
No, its not as simple as that, their most consumed food item is milk. They drink a lot of raw milk as is typically the cause of nomadic herders. The Masai have a high fat diet, they don't subsist primarily on meat and they consume domestic animals....not wild animals.
That doesn't change what I said, that they exist mainly on animal foods and yet are healthy and lean. Obesity is the problem, and that doesn't come from eating any particular set of foods, but rather the amount of calories. I'd further add that processed foods seem to contain appetite stimulants that tend to promote overeating, and they are at the same time usually calorie-dense.
Quote:
No, though your body can convert protein into glucose (up to 250~300 grams/day), your body cannot convert fat into glucose. Your cells, except some brain cells, have the ability to utilize fats directly. That is the point of low-carbohydrate diets, to force your body into a state of ketosis which is when it starts burning fat for energy instead of glucose.
Sure, then we can say that the endpoint of all food utilization is to make ATP which is the common energy producer. That doesn't change what I'm saying.
Quote:
Any human biology textbook and there are no such tribes, you just think there are.... All the cultures that subsist on a diet of primarily animal foods have a high fat diet, there is no culture that subsists primarily on wild game. But here is a citation for you:
"Dangers of excessive protein, defined as when protein constitutes > 35% of total energy intake, include hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia nausea, diarrhea, and even death (the "rabbit starvation syndrome").
I knew about "rabbit starvation" but didn't know that there was a danger in eating too much protein. However as even you admit, there are cultures that primarily eat animal foods and yet are healthy enough, and individuals on the various Paleo and extreme Atkins diets, who also seem to be quite healthy. Obviously they're not eating enough protein to cause problems. And there are so many different diets and cultures where people lead long healthy lives ...... unless they eat too much and gain weight.
All around the world, people seem to be mostly lean, with only a few obese, despite the great variety of very different diets ........ until that society starts to get a lot of fast or highly processed foods. Even Germans with their high-sausage diet aren't all that fat! But when McDonalds moves in, watch out. There's something in those kinds of foods that throw off the natural workings of the appestat.
That doesn't change what I said, that they exist mainly on animal foods and yet are healthy and lean. Obesity is the problem, and that doesn't come from eating any particular set of foods, but rather the amount of calories.
Yes it does. You used them as an example of a society that consumed a diet of mostly meat to refute my claim that there is a limit to how much protein the human body can metabolize, now you are changing your story. The high level of milk consumption is what prevents the Masai from dealing with the protein issues, their diet is very high in fat so they never go over the protein limit.
They are lean, not necessarily healthy. The Masai are very active, more so than most societies, it would be hard for them to become obese even if they tried.... Stating that weight-gain is from eating too many calories doesn't refute the idea that there are certain foods that promote weight gain.... Excess calories is the reason people gain weight, but there is also a reason why they are over-consuming calories. That isn't a natural condition, the body has many mechanism to maintain a healthy weight and these mechanisms are being short-circuited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
However as even you admit, there are cultures that primarily eat animal foods and yet are healthy enough, and individuals on the various Paleo and extreme Atkins diets, who also seem to be quite healthy.
Yes, there are a few societies that have a diet of primarily animal foods, but they are rare and their diet is very delicate since that isn't the natural diet for humans. These are societies on the fringe of what is possible and they are by no means without issues related to their diet. But my point about these societies is that they don't have a high meat diet (as in the tissue of animals), they have a high fat diet. Humans can't subsist on a diet of primarily protein, the majority of calories most be from carbohydrates or fat.
As for the Paleo and Atkins diet, I'm not aware of any study that shows that these diets promote health long-term. Do you know of any?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
Germans with their high-sausage diet aren't all that fat!
Germans actually consume considerably less meat than Americans.... I don't think they eat any more sausage than Americans either, they just eat them differently. Germans will serve sausage on a plate, Americans put it between a bun.
Regardless, obesity is a problem in Germany as well.
My daughter was just in Germany and every meal had meat. In fact she was getting really tired of it. Plenty of bread there too. And schnitzel is breaded and fried meat, a very popular dish in Germany and Austria. She said there were hardly any vegetables. Just meat and bread. So ID I have no idea where you get your information, but it is HIGHLY flawed.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,198,444 times
Reputation: 8105
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
No they didn't, plains Indians consumed a number of plants. There are no human societies living in terrestrial environments that subsist on a diet of mostly meat, its biologically impossible. Terrestrial animals are lean, especially in the winter, and there is a hard limit to how much protein the human body can metabolize.
The only societies that consume a diet high in meat are those consuming marine life, marine life is very high in fat so they avoid the protein issue. But even here, they have problems with the animals become lean. These societies also consume the whole animal, organs and all, that is the only way to get critical vitamins from an animal. Just eating the meat doesn't cut it.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
If you've ever looked at the plains where they lived, you wouldn't see much of anything edible except sage, especially not over the long winters. Also inland natives such as in Alaska have never had any access to marine foods except what little might be had through trade. Even now many of the subsistence level Alaskans (aborigines AND whites) depend mainly on meat, and somewhat on freshwater fish. There's only a short berry season to add a small amount of plant food during summers.
The Masai of Africa also lived mostly on blood and meat.
No, it's not at all impossible to live on meat. The only exception to that is when the meat animals are so extremely lean (such as hares and birds only) that the small amount of absolutely required fatty acids aren't available.
OK, I think the problem is that when you speak of meat, you're thinking of muscle flesh. But talk about an animal diet, I'm considering not just the entire critter, but also animal products such as dairy.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,198,444 times
Reputation: 8105
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
Couple of things.
The average life span of the Maasai man is 47 years.
When you start living the lifestyle of the Maasai AND manage not to keel over in your forties, then we can talk.
OK, good point, though I wish there were some studies of Masai who keep the diet but incorporate modern medicine and modern principles of hygiene into their lifestyles. Also include Masai who don't chuck spears at lions to prove their manhood.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,198,444 times
Reputation: 8105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckyd609
My daughter was just in Germany and every meal had meat. In fact she was getting really tired of it. Plenty of bread there too. And schnitzel is breaded and fried meat, a very popular dish in Germany and Austria. She said there were hardly any vegetables. Just meat and bread. So ID I have no idea where you get your information, but it is HIGHLY flawed.
That's pretty much the diet I remember as a Swiss-German child. We did usually have some salad though. Meat (often schnitzel or sausage), cheese, and potatoes. Sandwiches for lunch.
My daughter was just in Germany and every meal had meat. In fact she was getting really tired of it. Plenty of bread there too. And schnitzel is breaded and fried meat, a very popular dish in Germany and Austria. She said there were hardly any vegetables. Just meat and bread. So ID I have no idea where you get your information, but it is HIGHLY flawed.
My SO has been there over 10 times.... and he says the same thing.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
