ACE or Acepromazine (how much, rottweiler, poop, vet)

[latetotheparty]

This is gonna be a little lengthy, but I am really worried and unsure of what to do, so would appreciate my dog-smart pals' advice.....

Chico is absolutely terrified of having his nails cut.... actually no, terrified doesn't begin to describe it.... he screams, he poops, he tries to bite... even me....

He ADORES me and he is the easiest of my four to bathe and I can play with his feet all day long.... it is just when it is time to cut his nails....

When I took him in to my home last Thanksgiving, his nails were a little long, but were cut while he was being neutered a month or so later....

I have been taking all four of them in for nail trims every 2 weeks or so for the last few months.... I was a lax over the last year and didn't keep them as short as they should be.... ... and we are working on fixing that.... Bailey and Chico are the worst as far as length....

I have a friend in rescue who is also a professional groomer and she does this for me.... i am FAR too chicken to attempt it myself.... All of them have dark nails and I do not want to risk hurting them not knowing what I am doing....

In any case, the first time I took Chico, he went absolutely bat shizzle crazy... screaming, squirming, snapping (even with a muzzle on) .... my friend's husband and I both were holding him and we still could only get his front nails done.... I tried Valerian Root the next time and it did NOTHING....

I took him to the vet for his next pedicure so they could see, and his screams from the back just ripped my heart out.... it took the vet AND the vet tech to get the job done.... he is a 22 POUND DOG.......

She prescribed ACE for when he has to have a pedicure.... we have 10 mg tablets.... she said to give him one and that I could give him a second one if necessary....

tried it about 2 weeks later... gave him one tablet about an hour before we went to my friend's ... I could tell he was a little less enthusiastic, for lack of a better term, when i put his harness on him, but was otherwise just fine.... get to my friend's house and he again turns into demon dog while we are doing the deed.... he is always JUST FINE once we have finished.....

get him and the others home and go about my Sunday business..... 2-3 hours later (3-4 hours after I gave him the ACE), I came through the house and noticed he was staggering.... he couldn't walk well... he was just wasted on the ACE.... it wore off over the course of the evening and he was eventually fine.....

tried it again a couple of weeks later and a single tablet did not even phase him.......

today, i tried 1-1/2 tablets and had a repeat scenario...... gave him the meds about 1-1/2 hours before we were to be at my friend's house.... he was a little less dancey-prancey when I put his harness on, but was not acting drugged or high.... got him to the house, we still had to muzzle him and he was still very upset while his nails were being cut, but was a little more manageable....

get him him home and an hour later, he was just WASTED.... this was 2-1/2 hours after I gave him the meds and he was ok up until this point... today, he vomited what was left in his stomach from breakfast.... 3 hours before I gave him the meds and 5 hours before this moment.... very lethargic.... not interested in anything.... even when Roxie barks or wants to play..... refused water and didn't come into the kitchen when I was feeding the other dogs.....

In the last hour or so, he has run out to the yard to see what Roxie was barking at and again to "chase gizzards" but he is now back on his spot on the sofa.....

I gave him and bailey and dave 1/2 of one of these tablets on the nights when fireworks were especially bad around here and all were fine and none were the worse for wear... they actually helped all three of them... Roxie is the only one unphased by the fireworks.....

I will be taking him back to the vet ro discuss this this week when I take Bailey in for her annual.... I need some advice....

it is obvious that he was traumatized by a nail trim or trims at some point before he came into my life.... his nails are still a little long because we are taking him slowly.... but my goodness, i can't stand how traumatic it is for him to have his nails cut.... and i can't stand seeing him so drugged afterwards....

if you have made it this far, i hope you can give me some advice or an idea that has eluded me....

[ReturningWest]

I have used Ace a lot and I mean a whole lot. Mostly on my young horses when they are getting their tootsies done. A good farrier will take about an hour to do 4 hooves. What I did was give IM Ace as the farrier showed up and by the time he got un-packed and ready to go my horse was slightly sedated, it took about 6 months of doing this and my ADD youngsters saw the farrier roll up and went into snooze mode kinda like a pavlov's dog kinda of thing. Needless to say my farrier loved me because I took the extra time to make everyone safe.

I currently have a real problem dog with T-storms and after going through just about everything went to the vet and got some oral Ace for Mr. Odie, the dosage isn't meant to knock him out but to settle him some, to continue his on going behavior mod training. My vet also suggested a shot but I told him I'd be afraid of sticking me with the Ace because Odie would get so squirly and I'm alone.

I'd consider talking with your vet again about dosages and possible injections. One thing about the injection is you get a more instant result.

No matter what you do the change won't be over night but keep on working at it. I'd also pick a day when you are at home and not hurried and give your dog a dosage of the Ace and watch his reactions under non-stress situation to see how it affects him and how long it takes. You might also consider doing this several times and once meds have taken affect just handle his paws, toes etc. and give lots of treats and positive reinforcement. One of the things I learned with using Ace along with behavior mod stuff is you have to still take it in baby steps as it won't be an instant fix.

Also in your post I see your taking your dog somewhere else to get his toes done and you might consider changing that to doing it at your home where he might be more comfortable.

I wish you luck and please let us know how it goes.

[Sam I Am]

Late -

Do you take your dogs on regular walks on concrete? I know it is awfully hot right now, but I've found that's the trick to keeping the nails short and rounded off. I have a blind Rottweiler who absolutely goes insane at the sound of the dremel or the sensation of having his nails cut; the walks have done so much to help keep them short (and now he's the neighborhood darling, an added bonus!). Doesn't work as well on asphalt pavement, but sidewalks that are a little textured have a nice emery board effect.

All of that has nothing to do with ACE at all, just another way of getting the nails did...

[latetotheparty]

appreciate both of your comments.....

i can play with his feet all day long.... no problem at all.... he just turns into demon dog when the clippers come out.....

my neighborhood does not have sidewalks and the streets are pretty heavily traveled.... between those two things and crabby neighbors here and there, i don't walk them in here unless i absolutely have to.....

RW.... when you have used it on your horses and Odie, did it seem to last for hours and hours??

[Driller1]

A good many horses has been in the show ring with the help of ACE.

They performed just fine.....but, with the edge off.

[ReturningWest]

Originally Posted by latetotheparty

RW.... when you have used it on your horses and Odie, did it seem to last for hours and hours??

With IM it comes on quick and wears off faster, I like it a lot better because of that, and the oral version takes much longer to take affect and seems to linger on. As you know any med will work differently on anyone.

I wouldn't worry if it takes longer to wear off, remember it goes into the system at a much slower rate so will disapate much slower.

BTW, have you thought about using a Dremel? I have a cordless one that is pretty quiet and have switched to that and I love it. Takes a while to get them used to it, but I make it a game, with lots of treats etc. With a Dremel, you don't risk the chance of hurting them or cutting to far down.

[ReturningWest]

Originally Posted by Driller1

A good many horses has been in the show ring with the help of ACE.

They performed just fine.....but, with the edge off.

Hmmm, Ace is illegal to give if your showing, at least in recognized/rated shows. In the Dressage world that I showed in there were random drug testing done and we had to agree to it when we sent in our entrance forms.

[foxywench]

have you thought about trying to use a cremmel instead of nail clippers?
if hell let you play with his feet the next step is simply desensitiing him to the dremmel itself and the sound

i start a dog with the dremel without it turned on show it and treat...
then NOT turned on i put it near them, and treat...
next step would be touch the toe nail with it NOT turned on and treat
do this untill they ont gare about it touchign their nails.
then you start to desensitize to the sound...
turn it on TREAT
turn it on and bring it closer to them, TREAT
turn it on youch it to the toe nail for a milisecond, TREAT
touch it to the toe nail for a second, TREAT.

the thing with the dremmel is
1: you want to only touch it to the nail for 2 seconds MAX then the next ect so the nail doesnt get hot from friction
2: its impossible to "cut the quick" with a dremmel so its perfect even for dark nails.

the idea wiht the dremel is you use it for short burts per nail REGULARLY to keep the nails short, theresno pinching or pressure, but it does take some dogs a while to get used to the sound/sensation.

i cant touch dozers nails with nail clippers, hes terrified (and at 70lbs and 8 months old, its difficult to keep still on my own to work with him.
with the dremel i sit on the floor with him in a down and a handful fo treats, do 1 nail, give him a treat, repeat untill all nails are done, he doesnt struggle, theres no pulling or screaming anymore...and unlike nail clippers, it smooths the endges as it goes, so no sharp edges after mani-pedi time anymore either.

might be worth a try.

[latetotheparty]

well... he went out in the yard and did his business this morning.... even hiked his leg to pee without falling over.... but didn't want to play with Roxie when she was instigating their wrestle, run and chase game.... highly unusual for him....

he also refused his breakfast..... unheard of for him.... he was very very thin when i took him in and has spent the last 8 months making up for lost time.... he is heading toward being a bit of a chunky monkey so I am watching very closely how much he is fed and treated....

he just wanted to curl up on his spot on the sofa.... like he did all afternoon and evening last night.... i had to carry him to my room when it was bedtime....

his eyes don't look "high" this morning.... which is a huge improvement....

several months ago a friend loaned me her pedi-paws.... basically, a dremel .... they all did very well getting used to it when it was turned off, would even run over to me when they saw me pick it up from the counter..... but the nano-second i turned it on, none of them wanted to be in the same zipcode with it.... and i worked on this 2-3x day for about 3 weeks before i gave up.....

i will be making his and bailey's vet appointments for later in the week, once i figure out my schedule here at work.....

I hate this.....

[Driller1]

Originally Posted by ReturningWest

Hmmm, Ace is illegal to give if your showing, at least in recognized/rated shows. In the Dressage world that I showed in there were random drug testing done and we had to agree to it when we sent in our entrance forms.

That is why they drug test.