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Old 08-17-2012, 06:43 PM
 
1,015 posts, read 2,163,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
I've never heard of any of those breeds. Are they here in the U.S.?
Unfortunately yes. People get these dogs because they want something "new" with no idea of what the breed temperament is like. Needless to say many dogs are put down because they can very rarely be rehomed. Same with the show breeders, they are importing something "new" but they "water down" the temperament that makes the breed the breed. In a few short years these breeds and many others will be added to BSL or worse go the way of the GSD.

Few years ago no one even heard or knew of these breeds now "breeders" are popping up all over the place.

Wanted to add I inquire anyone that reads this to PLEASE do your homework about these breeds, they are nothing like GSD's, pits, rotts, these are some serious dogs breed to KILL and that's no hype. Talk to breeders, go to expos, and working trials to see these breeds before you bring one into your home and lifestyle. You will have to change your life around these breeds.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Chicago
6,025 posts, read 14,024,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
I've never heard of any of those breeds. Are they here in the U.S.?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildnFree View Post
Unfortunately yes. People get these dogs because they want something "new" with no idea of what the breed temperament is like. Needless to say many dogs are put down because they can very rarely be rehomed. Same with the show breeders, they are importing something "new" but they "water down" the temperament that makes the breed the breed. In a few short years these breeds and many others will be added to BSL or worse go the way of the GSD.

Few years ago no one even heard or knew of these breeds now "breeders" are popping up all over the place.

Wanted to add I inquire anyone that reads this to PLEASE do your homework about these breeds, they are nothing like GSD's, pits, rotts, these are some serious dogs breed to KILL and that's no hype. Talk to breeders, go to expos, and working trials to see these breeds before you bring one into your home and lifestyle. You will have to change your life around these breeds.
One of my biggest fears is that these "exotic", mastiff type breeds will gain a following among gangbangers and unscrupulous people here in the States. These kind of breeds are well posed to take the helm of "criminal's breed of choice" from the pit bull and Rottweiler in a few years (just like they took it from the Doberman and GSD before them). I've been through some low income, somewhat "hood" areas of Chicago and have already seen some questionable Cane Corsos used as yard dogs. Many are already cross breeding pit bulls and Rottweilers with mastiff type breeds like Bullmastiffs to create all those 90-100lb+ "pit bulls" that crop up in the news at time. Ages ago, I used to be on a forum/discussion board where a poster as known for breeding and training Caucasian/Russian Ovcharkas as guard dogs. This person seemed like a fairly legit breeder but all it takes is for them to rehome 2 pups into a questionable home. Could you imagine your average low level, inner city thug getting their hands on a volatile breed like a Tosa? Do a search- these people already know about this breed and are inquiring about it.

Thankfully most of these breeds are rare, mostly restricted to their country of origin, and hard to get. On the other hand, a lot of people said the same thing about Cane Corsos, Presa Canarios, and Dogo Argentinos back in the day also and these are breeds that are already starting to fall into the wrong hands.

The sad, ironic thing is that few BSLs even acknowledge these breeds due to their rarity so while a working professional with a CGC certified pit bull/Rottweiler/GSD can have trouble finding a rental, some of these dangerous breeds can slip through easily.

Last edited by eevee; 08-19-2012 at 11:02 AM.. Reason: eta: correction, mixed up cane corsos with presa canarios
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:20 PM
 
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I agree Eevee, its already started, the cycle will continue and new breeds will be ruined. In fact we just had this disscussion with some CC people about the rise in popularity. Few years ago this breed was unheard of now everyone pops on the forum with a new CC. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that these are for "exclusive" people BUT those considering these breeds need to be aware what they are getting into.

Same with the Ovcharkas, people tell me they found out about the breed when they watched a special on National Geographic about the Russian Prison.

True most rare breeds with stay in their native country but $$$ talks and breeders will sell their dogs to prospective people. Its happening in a breed that I am looking at ( not listed). There's already one "breeder" claiming to be the "first" to own the dogs in the US. Its a ****-poor representation of the breed IMO, but people will flock to it because it is "new."
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Mountains of middle TN
5,244 posts, read 14,694,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildnFree View Post
I still disagree. There are quite a natural human aggressive dogs. Filas ( dogs specifically breed with "Ojeriza" mean hatred, loathing of strangers) , Caucasian Ovcharkas, Sarplaninac, gull terrs etc. These breeds are breed with a job in mind ie "working dogs." They are not "pets" as the western culture treats them.

Unfortunately these are ( should I say have) becoming popular and of course ruined, by both SHOW and BYB's.
These are not dogs that are 'human aggressive'. These are dogs that have a natural protective instinct to their pack. Human aggression would be a dog that will attack any human for no reason, as dog aggressive would mean the dog would attack any dog unprovoked. There is a big difference. These breeds were bred to do a job and that is to protect their human pack. I just had a Fila in my shelter. One of the sweetest dogs we've had in a while and he loved everyone - human and dog alike.

I'm friends with, and work closely with, the guy that runs the kennel locally that breeds and trains the K9s for most of middle and east TN. Watching his dogs work is amazing. They excel at what they do. I've seen them take down a 6'6" guy that's built like a granite mountain like it's nothing. But when they're not 'working' they go right back to being the family pet. Many of them sleep with the family's children. Tell me those kids aren't the safest in the country! There's no reason a 'working breed' that's bred to be a protective breed can't be a family pet or be human friendly. They will certainly be more prone to chewing up anyone that's dumb enough to threaten their pack, but that doesn't make them human aggressive.

As for the article, which I'll note I did not read, it does make sense to me. I choose the 'aggressive' breeds, or the breeds that people generally think of as aggressive and I guess I would never be called a fragile porcelain doll by anyone that knows me. I like the strong, no non-sense types of dogs. Just the ones I guess I identify with. JMO
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,824 posts, read 21,111,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATUMRE75 View Post
I personally don't think there is a such thing as a natural aggressive dog. You have young street punks who have an inferiority complex who choose to make their dogs aggressive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATUMRE75 View Post
The article refers to human aggressive dogs. Again no dog is born that way, even the more power breeds like Boerbel, Cane Corso, and Presa Canario can be managed with the proper owner, training, and socialization. If a dog doesn't like cats and other small animals I don't consider that dog a menace to society. I call it prey drive and all dogs have it. You have to socialize your dogs with other small animals at an early age to eliminate any issue in the future. My dog loves cats because she was raised with them, but she will try to catch and eat birds.
I disagree. I think any dog can be born naturally agressive, regardless of breed. It is part of the dog's personality. One of the tests I employ is to flip an eight-week old puppy on their back and gently scratch their stomach. If they lay there and enjoy the scratching, they have a personality that is suited for families with children. If they struggle to right themselves and do not like being held, then they are not the kind of dog you want around children.

Again, it has absolutely nothing to do with breed. I have seen docile dogs and aggressive dogs of the same breed raised by the same owner in the same setting. It is a personality trait, not a breed specific trait.

My Boerboel loves everyone he meets, but he also tends to be a bit aggressive (not in a biting or mean way, aggressive in this case meaning very active, pushy, overt, etc.). Meaning that he has a tendency to force himself on you for some attention. He also likes to play rough.

My Alaskan Husky is much more timid. Even though they were both socialized the same way, my Alaskan Husky tends to be afraid of people. She also will not play with me, unless I really work to get her excited. Whereas my Boerboel jumps at an opportunity to play bite, literally. He likes to launch himself through the air and attack me from behind.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:35 PM
 
14,743 posts, read 29,974,501 times
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I agree. Most low-life types deliberately select pit bulls.

I was at an animal shelter one Saturday and was walking around the dog cages. About 3/4 of the dogs were Pit Bulls or Pit Bull mixes. The employee/attendant glumly remarked that most people don't want them.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,824 posts, read 21,111,757 times
Reputation: 6523
Quote:
Originally Posted by eevee View Post
One of my biggest fears is that these "exotic", mastiff type breeds will gain a following among gangbangers and unscrupulous people here in the States. These kind of breeds are well posed to take the helm of "criminal's breed of choice" from the pit bull and Rottweiler in a few years (just like they took it from the Doberman and GSD before them). I've been through some low income, somewhat "hood" areas of Chicago and have already seen some questionable Cane Corsos used as yard dogs. Many are already cross breeding pit bulls and Rottweilers with mastiff type breeds like Bullmastiffs to create all those 90-100lb+ "pit bulls" that crop up in the news at time. Ages ago, I used to be on a forum/discussion board where a poster as known for breeding and training Caucasian/Russian Ovcharkas as guard dogs. This person seemed like a fairly legit breeder but all it takes is for them to rehome 2 pups into a questionable home. Could you imagine your average low level, inner city thug getting their hands on a volatile breed like a Tosa? Do a search- these people already know about this breed and are inquiring about it.

Thankfully most of these breeds are rare, mostly restricted to their country of origin, and hard to get. On the other hand, a lot of people said the same thing about Cane Corsos, Presa Canarios, and Dogo Argentinos back in the day also and these are breeds that are already starting to fall into the wrong hands.

The sad, ironic thing is that few BSLs even acknowledge these breeds due to their rarity so while a working professional with a CGC certified pit bull/Rottweiler/GSD can have trouble finding a rental, some of these dangerous breeds can slip through easily.
It is not just "gangbangers" and "unscrupulous people" who like mastiffs. My mixed Boerboel/Lab male weighs in at 130 pounds. I also believe there is some truth to the article that suggests dogs are an extension of their owners. I am 6'-7" tall and a former Marine. I really like big aggressive dogs. The bigger the better, imo.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:43 PM
 
Location: zone 5
7,329 posts, read 14,249,017 times
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Low-lifes do select pit bulls, and other large, muscular dogs.
But so do families with young kids, and lots of "normal" everyday people (like me and my husband, two younger retirees in a nice middle class suburb ) . It's not so much aggressive people choosing so-called aggressive dogs.
There are so many pit bulls in shelters due to their sheer numbers, in many areas second only to labs, and their bad reputation scaring off many people from adopting them.
One thing about adopting any dog with a reputation for being aggressive, you can't be really thin-skinned, because you'll get bad reactions from time to time.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:54 PM
 
14,743 posts, read 29,974,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subject2change View Post
Low-lifes do select pit bulls, and other large, muscular dogs.
But so do families with young kids, and lots of "normal" everyday people (like me and my husband, two younger retirees in a nice middle class suburb ) . It's not so much aggressive people choosing so-called aggressive dogs.
There are so many pit bulls in shelters due to their sheer numbers, in many areas second only to labs, and their bad reputation scaring off many people from adopting them.
One thing about adopting any dog with a reputation for being aggressive, you can't be really thin-skinned, because you'll get bad reactions from time to time.
My friend pulled in a stray tortoise shell pit bull female when he was single. I was leery of this dog, but she took to me. In fact, when he was on vacation, he asked me to feed and walk her. I did and the first thing I did was keep the leash in hand, to indicate we would be going on a walk soon to keep her in a "happy" mood. I was a little uptight about this whole arrangement, but it worked out.

Fast forward: Friend gets married. Dog is ok with his new wife. Dog was NOT ok to his newborns who, when toddlers, would go near her and she growled. They kept her, she never got along with his 2 kids, and she ultimately died.

I would never own this type of dog. I prefer the medium-sized herding dogs, such as Australian Shepherds and Border Collies. What does that choice say about me as a dog owner?
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,824 posts, read 21,111,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
My friend pulled in a stray tortoise shell pit bull female when he was single. I was leery of this dog, but she took to me. In fact, when he was on vacation, he asked me to feed and walk her. I did and the first thing I did was keep the leash in hand, to indicate we would be going on a walk soon to keep her in a "happy" mood. I was a little uptight about this whole arrangement, but it worked out.

Fast forward: Friend gets married. Dog is ok with his new wife. Dog was NOT ok to his newborns who, when toddlers, would go near her and she growled. They kept her, she never got along with his 2 kids, and she ultimately died.

I would never own this type of dog. I prefer the medium-sized herding dogs, such as Australian Shepherds and Border Collies. What does that choice say about me as a dog owner?
It says that you are intellegent, very organized, and active, assuming of course that you have similar personality traits as the dog you prefer.

FYI: Female dogs tend to be very vocal. Growling does not necessarily mean they intend to be aggressive. Sometimes they growl just to let you know that you are in their "personal space."
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