Help! New puppy panics so badly in crate that she pees and poops everywhere! (labrador, clean)

[nicos_mom]

Hi, I'm a little lost... I've just adopted a 10 week old labrador pup. I've read countless articles on crate training, and decided thats the route I would take after adopting, for housebreaking and behavioral purposes. I've taken her out constantly during the day to eliminate, about once an hour for about 15 minutes at a time, and she has gone pee and been graciously praised for it. She does not like treats so far, and all the articles I've read say to use treats to introduce puppy to the crate positively. I've introduced her to the crate slowly, not trying to make it an ordeal. Tonight, after letting her become familiar with it for a few hours, I tried to put her in there for bedtime, me still being in the room. She whines at first, then it turns into full blown panic. I tried to ignore it, but then I smell pee and poop suddenly, and I've just realized she's panicked so badly she's soiled herself, and then I HAD to let her out. This has happened twice tonight. Where should I go from here? Will I have to be perpetually cleaning up panic poop until this anxiety goes away? Please any advice would be helpful!

[Katie1]

She out for 5 mins Every hour Evn tho she potties! WOW Your Punishing her for Being GOOD! Take her out every hour Give her 15 mins to Potty IF she Doesnt Potty put her back for 30 mins & try again! When she Dose Potty leave her out Afterwards to Play! Watch her for signs of having to go! Depending on her age 30 mins to hour! Take her to Potty Place! When you Cant watch her then crate & take her out! But DANG Dont put her in crate & Only out when she HAS pottied! Your Confusing her & Not giving her a chance to play!

[cleosmom]

Originally Posted by Katie1

She out for 5 mins Every hour Evn tho she potties! WOW Your Punishing her for Being GOOD! Take her out every hour Give her 15 mins to Potty IF she Doesnt Potty put her back for 30 mins & try again! When she Dose Potty leave her out Afterwards to Play! Watch her for signs of having to go! Depending on her age 30 mins to hour! Take her to Potty Place! When you Cant watch her then crate & take her out! But DANG Dont put her in crate & Only out when she HAS pottied! Your Confusing her & Not giving her a chance to play!

I think you misunderstood the OP. She takes the dog OUTSIDE to potty once an hour, not out of the crate. From what I gather last night was first attempt to crate at bedtime.

[cleosmom]

Originally Posted by nicos_mom

Hi, I'm a little lost... I've just adopted a 10 week old labrador pup. I've read countless articles on crate training, and decided thats the route I would take after adopting, for housebreaking and behavioral purposes. I've taken her out constantly during the day to eliminate, about once an hour for about 15 minutes at a time, and she has gone pee and been graciously praised for it. She does not like treats so far, and all the articles I've read say to use treats to introduce puppy to the crate positively. I've introduced her to the crate slowly, not trying to make it an ordeal. Tonight, after letting her become familiar with it for a few hours, I tried to put her in there for bedtime, me still being in the room. She whines at first, then it turns into full blown panic. I tried to ignore it, but then I smell pee and poop suddenly, and I've just realized she's panicked so badly she's soiled herself, and then I HAD to let her out. This has happened twice tonight. Where should I go from here? Will I have to be perpetually cleaning up panic poop until this anxiety goes away? Please any advice would be helpful!

Some dogs need a little more get used to time than others. Does not sound like she is food driven. Try using her favorite toy instead, just make certain it is not something she can choke on. Make certain the crate is large enough, but not too large to lose the den effect.

[foxywench]

1: put the crate somewhee central leave it open and toss in some things that smell liek you (old towels are a good starter as they are easy to wash) put some of her toysin there ect.
make the crate the most wonderfull place in the world by feeding her her meals in the crate, giving her chewies in the crate ect.
right now its a scry thing and if she was rescued form a kennel she may have seperation anxiety.

during the ay go slow, let her go in o her own and do NOT make a uss about it... then after shes going in to get her toys or with her treat once in a while close the door say "bedtime" and then at first IMEDIATLY open it again..after a few times leave it closed ust a little longer ect...
the idea being let her out beore she has a chance to whine or panic.

when giving her high value treats (it may not be shes not food motivated but that she doesnt like the treats try plain boiled chicken or cheese instead, and see if she likes things likeraw carrot, pigs ears ect...) figure out her absolte favortie rewar and reserv it ONLY for the crate (if shell chew on a pig ear for an hour, or do circles for chicken, or loves to play with a peanut butter filled kong, USE it) be consistent she ALWAYS gets that treat in her crate.

only let her out of the crate when shes quiet, feel free to tell her a "quiet" or "settle own" command, she wont now what it means yet but shell quickly start associating. only open the door if shes being calm. (however the idea is in the beginning you get the door opend before she starts to panic.

since you want to crate her for bed but shes so anxious right now at bedtime id put her crate in a puppy safe room (bathroom or kitchen works well) with an easy clean floor. but items that smell like you in the crate along with some favored toys and leave it open in the puppy proofed room untill shes a little more comfortable.

[Happy in Wyoming]

Get rid of the crate. I've been able to housetrain every dog I've had without one. Just limit the puppy's area but try to spend as much time as possible with her. Hold her on your lap and let her sit or lie beside you. It's the way to do it without fear and terror.

At her age she can't hold it in very well so praise her when you take her out and she goes.

[k9coach]

I'm so sorry you are having trouble with crate training your pup. The puppy stage is challenging enough without extra complications, so I really do feel for you.

One key point you mentioned is that your pup is not interested in treats. Now, it is possible she is one of those rare dogs that truly is not into food (which would make her quite unique as a LAB haha!) or it may be that the crate makes her so nervous and shut-down that she can't even think about eating. Normally, finding a treat the pup loves and using that to form a really positive association with the crate would be the preferred method of crate acclimation / training. But if your pup doesn't care about treats, and if there is nothing else we can come up with to pair with the crate to form a positive association, my advise would be to ditch the crate. It is not worth causing that level of stress in the dog. And really, if we're using a crate to aid with POTTY TRAINING that means we are using the generalization that "dogs won't soil their den". Well if she's letting her bladder and bowels go in there every time we put her in now, there goes that whole plan! She is more-so forming the association of actually peeing and pooping IN her crate which defeats the whole point of using a crate for potty training.

The keys to potty training are:

-Constant supervision.
-Lots of trips outside.
-Praise and rewards for proper outdoor potties.
-Accidents must be caught in the act in order to be addressed at all. Your reaction to catching her in a squat should simply be to pick her up and rush her outside to finish. If you scare her, she'll only learn to pee in corners, guest rooms, & behind furniture when your not looking. Plus she'll be scared to pee in front of you outside.
-Use enzymatic, specially formulated cleaners for any accidents. Household cleaners will not work on dog pee. Your dog can still smell it even if you can't, and that scent beckons her to "pee here!" Use Nature's Miracle, Simple Solution, or similar.

Crate or no crate, frequent trips outside will be necessary.

See how your pup feels about being baby gated into a small area like a laundry room, or being in a pen instead of an actual crate. Sometimes dogs have quirks about the type of confinement - like some are fine in wire crates but freak out in plastic crates, and vice versa. Some dogs just hate the "roof" right overhead as in a crate but have no problem being confined in a x-pen. So play around with the type of confinement you're using and see if there is a setup that your pup is more comfortable with.

The only other thought I can offer is that maybe you went too fast with her acclimation process. If you just gave her a couple hours to sort of 'observe' the crate and then you just put her in it and closed the door and turned off the lights I guess that could have been too much too soon for her. In that case you'd need to spend several days just letting her explore the crate, hide her favorite toys in there and let her discover them, never close the door to the crate, in fact tie it open, that sort of thing. And then the first time you close the door open it right back up. Then close it for 3 seconds and open it up to get her convinvced that you WILL be letting her out of there, you're not locking her in there forever.

Some people also like to feed their dog's meals in the crate to form a positive association.

Let's hope this is just a hatred of crates and not a larger anxiety issue. Keep us posted.

[second right]

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

Get rid of the crate. I've been able to housetrain every dog I've had without one. Just limit the puppy's area but try to spend as much time as possible with her. Hold her on your lap and let her sit or lie beside you. It's the way to do it without fear and terror.

At her age she can't hold it in very well so praise her when you take her out and she goes.

I agree with getting rid of the crate. I never used a crate to house break a dog or for any other reason. From rescues to my own personal "babies". NEVER.

[JasonAndJulie]

Crates are highly debated.

Do you have kids? You know that stage where a newborn baby sleeps sooo good in your arms and won't wake up for anything....until you put him down? Then he flails everywhere? That's the stage you're in.

[nicos_mom]

Thank you all for all of the suggestions. She seems to be doing a little better tonight, at least refraining from full on panic, although I've still gotten a little nervous pee from her. I've actually even at one point gotten her to settle down after about 5 minutes of whining, me sitting beside her, in complete silence. Throughout the day I've been working on it with her gradually. I found that she does not like doggy treats, but she does respond nicely to chicken... (Yes!)
I've not tried leaving her long term (overnight) yet, but we will see how tonight goes...
Also, I tried gating her in the kitchen, but unfortunately she has proven to be quite crafty at climbing over the baby gate I've bought. So that's out of the question...
If this keeps up for very long, I may have to ditch the crate. I don't want to, but I also don't want her associating the crate with the place to potty, even if she is doing it out of anxiety right now. I'll keep posted about how it all goes. Thanks again everyone!