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Hello, There are so many wise and educated people on here with a plethora of experiences and advice. I love this forum! Finally decided I should post my question and see what you folks have to say:
We acquired our dog almost two years ago. He's a blue heeler/mix. He was 4 or 5 at the time and came from a home where there were not many rules and no training or expectations, he was not trained to walk on a leash, ride in a car, etc. He is very good natured, a naturally good dog, intelligent, wants to please, but extremely stubborn at times. One trainer told us he is "abnormally determined". We have made so much progress and he's almost a "normal" dog now. Haha.
The biggest problem we have is that we can not put him on a leash. When he first came to us we could put a leash on him for short times, but he would cry and yip and carry on the whole time. We were able to leash him enough to take him to group obedience classes at the pet store and for very short walks up the street. He figured out before too long though that he could tug on the leash and we can't hold on to it. Since that time we've tried: every type of halter imaginable, rope leashes, vinyl leashes, leather leashes, chain leashes. We hired a private trainer and did intensive training for 6 weeks. We've given treats. Not given treats. Had him wear the leash around the house (he holds it in his mouth when we do this, won't put it down unless he is lying down). When we let go of the leash he doesn't run away and he seems to enjoy being out and about. He just does NOT want a human holding the end of that leash.
So: my question. Would you keep trying? Is there any chance that at this stage of the game we'll be able to teach the desired behavior? If you think we should keep trying, what do you recommend?
since hes comfortable holding the leash himself he could associate the human aspect with something negative. have you tried a long line (10+ ft to see how he reacts to that. healers are incredibly indepedant (they had to be to do thir job, unlike hearding dogs who worked WITH the handler, healers and catlle dogs were bred to work indpeendantly, use their brains and be as stubborn as the cattle they were bred to move.
he may just be exhibiting his independence and a longer line may give him enough of that feeling of freedom...
what is he doing when a human holds the leash, does he siply not walk, or is he just being noisy or is he pulling?
sounds like by carrying on and figuring out he can pull the leash out of your hands hes trained you.
first suggestion would be a belt tether so he CANT tug the leash free...(simply clip the leash to a good strong leather belt, and if you loose girp hes then got to drag YOU down the street lol) youll stil want to hold on...
have you tried toys instead of treats? some dogs ust arnt food motivated, but something else will motivate them, or some its a ball or tug or a squeaky toy ect...again with an independent breed our job is to figure out what makes him tick and harness those magial powers.
and if hes going on verbally when onleash, ignore it and keep walking, if he pulls turn around and walk a few steps in the other direction to keep his attention ect.
ignore the verbalization, its probably worked for him in the past so its a habit that will take a while. they also tend to be "talkative" too (they would bark and nip at the cattle to get them to move and do what they wanted them to...)
Get a leash that attaches to a belt. Then he can pull all he wants and he's not going to yank it out of your hands. I've seen people in my town walking their dogs with the leash clipped into a climbing harness.
I wouldn't give up because leash walking is sometimes vital. The vet's office, in a crowd, transporting him pretty much ANYWHERE. And tickets from animal control officer suck.
Have you tried a 30-foot leash? Let him roam on that and gradually shorten the length you give him on it.
I agree with foxywench though that he's go you guys trained. That's what cattle dogs DO. You just have to outlast them. They're actually a very dominance-oriented dog, and I don't mean physical dominance. It's about proving to them that you are going to outlast them in determination and they're not going to get away with unacceptable behaviors. I have a Catahoula, and we go through an episode of this every day, pretty much. It helps if you run the bejesus out of them before you work with them on something like this. Get them nice and tired. If I run the Catahoula at the dog park for an hour or so, he settles down to work pretty well for the rest of the day.
Oh boy. You nailed it! He is very talkative. He used to just carry on verbally when on leash. We ignored that behavior and would continue walking (it was loud enough though that multiple neighbors would come out to question us). I had him on a long tie out in the front yard with me the other day. He does great on that as long as it's tied to an inanimate object. I unhooked the lead from the tree when it was time to go inside and he immediately put it in his mouth and tugged against me.
We're aware that he has "trained us" by pulling the leash out of our hands. We haven't tried actually tying it to our selves. I'm certainly game to try that! We have had a strong man hold on to the end of the leash and Gus pulled him clear around the block. They were both drop dead exhausted when they got back home.
He is very motivated by fetch. I don't understand how to use that for an incentive with the leash. Can you explain in simple terms how I might do that? (I'm not trying to be difficult, but a leash doesn't allow for fetch) I might just be missing this. lol
And thinking about what makes him tick in terms of his breed working with cattle will probably be very useful for me. I'm familiar with cattle and what it takes to make their stubborn selves do what you need them to. Thank you very much for pointing that out to me!!!
A climbing harness is a great idea. Thank you! The sheer physical strength of him makes this very difficult. And you're right, it's just so darn necessary to figure this out!
If he likes fetch and the ball try standing around throwing the ball right to him with just a small toss. Then if he puts it back in your hand, not on the floor, give it another toss. If he is willing to play this game with you then you can play it on walks. You toss, he catches and puts it back in your hand. If you drop it he picks it up and tries again. My dog is not food motivated. We used the ball to train her for alot of things.
Try wearing him out with a game of fetch prior to walking him on a leash. Have treats in your pockets and constantly give him treats while you are holding the leash. When he pulls, say NO. When he stops pulling, give a treat.
If that doesn't work, try what I call "changing direction" training. It works great. You won't get anywhere on this walk but it will teach him not to pull. What you do is start walking down the street, when he pulls the leash, you turn around and start heading the other direction. When he pulls again, you turn around again and go the opposite direction. This is how I trained my hound who was super stubborn and set in his ways for years prior to trying this. The first few times, I swear we didn't get further than 10 feet and kept turning and redoing the same 10 feet. It really worked. He learned if he pulled he wouldn't be able to get anywhere he was trying to go. I have even stood there and refused to move.
If your dog LOVES going for rides in the car, try asking him if he wants to go for a ride. When he gets all excited, put the leash on him to take him. If you keep saying "bye bye in the car" or "go for a ride" or whatever it is you say, he should get distracted by the excitement of going for a ride that he won't play tug of war while heading to the car. This will allow him to get used to having you holding the leash while taking him to the car.
If he won't leave your side while holding the leash himself, I see nothing wrong with allowing him to "walk himself" since you could easily grab the leash in an emergency. Of course, that depends on if he's well trained otherwise---listens to voice commands, doesn't run off. I have seen very well trained dogs walk themselves with the leash in their mouths. It's super cute.
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We love him to pieces. Thank you all for your advice and thoughts! Gives us some encouragement and ideas again. 
