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Has anyone else had this issue? We have 2 dogs about the same age, Judy a mixed Shepard is 9 and Bruno a pedigree Chocolate lab is 8. (FYI both were adopted from the shelter.) Judy loves cucumbers and since she eats them Bruno does as well. We know pickles make him ill and don't usually give them pickles due to the processing. About three days ago I gave Judy a cucumber as a special treat, they usually get broccoli which they also think is a wonderful dog treat - they also like tomatoes and Bruno is fond of lettuce. I don't understand their taste in food but the vet says it's fine, green beans is his recommendation but they don't care for them as much as broccoli so we go with it.
We had terrible thunderstorms which make Bruno very frightened, we're going to try the thundershirts but haven't yet, and for the first time since we've had him he defecated in the house. Then he vomited and had diarrhea for two days. He was lethargic and we were about to take him to the ER vet when he rallied. Hmm. Then as we backtracked we realized his symptoms began shortly after eating the cucumbers two days running.
He's feeling better now, acting more like himself and no vomiting although he still has diarrhea it's not nearly as severe. We're giving him pepto for that and a light diet. It was quite scary especially since there's a parvo outbreak in the area and even dogs who've been vaccinated can get it because there is more than one strain.
It's been quite a stressful couple of weeks here, our cat had to have his canine teeth extracted recently and that was scary as he lost considerable weight and now this. We're beginning to feel like we're not very good parents to our pets sheesh. =(
Highly, highly unlikely that cucumbers had anything to do with Bruno's woes.
True food allergies are relatively unusual and are almost in response to a protein. Food intolerance is something else entirely but many people conflate the two. I highly doubt that his eating cucumbers had anything at all to do with anything.
Do a bland mushy diet (potatoes/sweet potatoes well cooked and mashed or mushy cooked white rice) along with a smidge of lean cooked meat in small meals for a day or two. If he continues to have diarrhea, take a stool sample to your vet. More likely bacterial overgrowth or maybe parasites. Stress (thunderstorms) reduces immune response and he may have a transient gastro-intestinal issue in response to being stressed out.
Sorry, forgot to add he had the same reaction after eating them previously but my brother forgot to tell me about it. He also had the same response to pickles, which he ate along with a hamburger and other condiments. Not something I'd give a dog but my brother isn't as discriminating. I"m aware that coincidence is not causation but in this case I think it makes sense.
I'm being very careful about what he's eating, basically treating him like a human GI patient, and sadly I know that diet all too well. Bland, lots of hydration, easily digested. He seems much better today. More energy and although he still has loose stool it's improved. Unfortunately I can't smell so I don't know if there is an odor which might be helpful diagnostically.
I really think the combination of stress and the cucumber put him over the top. It also occurred to me that I didn't skin the cucumbers, just washed them if there could be some sort of toxin on them? Bruno's not as healthy as Judy, he has mange and had bouts of intestinal worms, something else to consider.
Something else to consider when giving our pets fresh fruit and vegetables. I always wash them and usually skin things like cucumbers due to the waxy coating but didn't this time.
I would google the difference between food allergies and food intolerance. So you understand.
Also of course dogs are carnivores so there's no real reason you need to give your dogs vegetables at all.
If you typically feed your dogs kibble for food they are getting preservatives and colorants and additives off the charts compared to whatever might be on cucumber skin. Read the ingredient label of whatever "dog food" you feed. I seriously, seriously doubt something sprayed on the occasional cucumber skin is even remotely to blame.
I understand the difference and use the term 'allergy' loosely. They eat both kibble and canned food, I researched what they need and think we've made the best choices given our circumstances. Judy craves vegetables, tomatoes and broccoli being her favorites and the vet suggests green beans as a treat. Unlike cats dogs are not obligate carnivores, they can digest vegetables so it's not detrimental to their system to give them vegetables. I do not however give them much, nor do I give them dog food that contains grain - they are not ruminants.
Whatever it was, cucumber, wax - food intolerance/allergy he has severe gastric issues everytime he eats a cucumber which we find quite odd. Coupled with the stress of the thunder storms it overwhelmed him I'm sure. I've never had a dog, or any pet, that responded to a non-toxic substance like this before. That said I'm aware that they're all individuals that could be the issue. I was just wondering if anyone else had a similar experience with a typically non-toxic substance.
My other dog and one of my cats have adverse reactions to topical flea meds. The poor cats breaks out in blisters from all varieties and the dog gets a rash from some. She has sensitive skin and I have to be careful what I feed her so I'm very careful what dog food I purchase and what I use to bathe her.
This was an unsettling experience and the worst part is that unlike the patients at work he can't tell me how he's feeling =( Fortunately he's improved, kept his food down and his GI system is returning to normal. I just wish I knew for certain what caused it so we could avoid it in the future. I am going to purchase a thundershirt tomorrow and see if that reduces his anxiety, I think it's the least I can do for the poor guy.
Interesting. That IS odd but after dealing with GI in dogs for 15 years nothing surprises me. I'm a pet sitter but also as an adviser on a megaesophagus board we've seen a zillion adverse reactions and GI complications. I'm telling you this because Mega-E is one of the most serious GI problems you can have (combined with a neuro "broken link"). Some of our dogs can't even tolerate heartworm meds because of the adverse reactions but we found "Safeheart" a lower dose product that brought their symptoms below the threshold level. One adverse reaction in a mega-e dog can kill them.
So yeah, eliminate it anyway even if it's not "scientific". It could simply be the seeds or just a weird allergy. There are so many. Flax is a huge one that nobody expects, for example.
Green beans are neutral. Apparently cucumbers are NOT. Of course broccoli is not. It's high fiber, for one.
Another help for GI is Oat Bran. Quaker. Cooked or sprinkled onto wet food. It balances the GI if it's either end of the spectrum - too loose or too constipated - but it is not as rough as say, a broccoli. If a dog is eating grain and has GI, it has to be a fractionalized grain. A GI dog also needs a LOW FAT and preferably a low PROTEIN food. Low residue is best. I'm not telling you to completely change your food if you feed some special type of no grain or whatever but I'm offering what I know works in seriously compromised and even casual cases. I have a lady in assisted living with dementia. We are always hiding the Milkbones she over feeds the poor little dog who's on Hills ID because of it. She won't eat them if I can get in there EARLY before the lady throws down the stupid Milkbones. LOL. She also needs Flagyl off and on when overeating them. Her dementia is not bad enough that we can omit having the Milkbones around or she spazzes out because she has a dual diagnosis of anxiety! So I hide them but she manages to CON some people into going to the store to buy MORE!!!
You probably know - NO seeds, nuts, berries etc. Even if he could eat them before. NO. He has a dx form of IBD/IBS now. Or some kind of overgrowth or something. IMO if your dog's stool doesn't resolve in like 3 days I would ask for Flagyl. Sometimes the inflammation is too far advanced to resolve on it's own.
You can only get a TRUE dx from a scope to the tissue and you NEVER want to do that because it's a high risk procedure with the anesthesia and tube and scope. NOT necessary anyway at this point.
Everybody is nervous about antibiotics. IME that's not founded in reality with these GI disorders. Risk/Reward. OBV if you can resolve it without, fine, but there's usually a point where you cannot. People use pumpkin - it's not anywhere near enough to really "fix" anything.
We had dogs even with with feeding tubes using Flagyl off and on all the time which mysteriously cured alot of problems like acid relux, regurge, and mucous in the stool or diarrhea. It makes sense if you think about it because of the tube - a foreign object in there. You cannot "bleach out" a feeding tube. These dogs lived a hearty 8 -9 years with TUBE when with megaesophagus they should have died in months or been euth'd if the people listened to the vet's dire predictions because they never lived with a Mega-e dog so had no idea of the ways to support these things. A couple of them lived more active lives than most dogs - hunting in the cold snowy NY weather!
Believe it or not Hills ID prescription food is what I've found to be a miracle. I prefer the canned but dry is ok, too. People turn their nose up at it because of the ingredients. NO. It works. The ingredients are in there for a reason. Fractionalized grains, for example. Also fortified with other properties like additional B12. Dogs absorb this low residue food beautifully and you see results quick. Again, not IF they need a Flagyl. And once you see blood or thick mucous stool like my Bulldog when he ate a FEW blackberries, it's too late to play around. And of course watery diarrhea for more than a day is entering danger zone.
Labs are prone to IBS. My mother's Lab got a severe case after she died. Every NOISE freaked her out, she was 13 with NO history until this. She'd get projectile diarrhea IMMEDIATELY. Even if I used a stapler to staple fabric to a piece of wood. I switched her to Hills and it resolved the diarrhea. The behavior, of course took some time. Coincidentally she got a malignant melanoma in the upper jaw right after this, that we had debulked and were told a certain death in 6 months. It never came back until THREE YEARS LATER when her housemate, my bulldog, died after a long dramatic illness. STRESS.
Hills ID canned was the ONLY food my bulldog could tolerate and swallow and keep down for a bit when suffering for months with megaesophagus and ditto all the dogs on our board. Also the IBD board.
I would desensitize him to weather. Most weather sensitive dogs feel a storm coming on before we do and they get antsy about even going out. They act all paranoid out there and nervous to varying degrees. THAT's when I walk them alot. Every time. Of course I don't force them to walk in storms but I downplay storms entirely and show no "compassion" but confidence. Compassion makes them think there's something to worry about and reinforces in their brains that YOu are scared too. The high voice, the petting etc. It says "Be afraid". There's another thread with a big debate about this somewhere in the past month.
I would UP HIS WALKS and exercise to build confidence and distract him from worrying about things and being tired when there's a storm is always better than being "normal". Exercise is a HUGE cure physically and psychologically for dogs. Especially for anxiety. Also stopping "identifying" with it and acting as totally normal as you can. And I mean real exercise like walking, not just being neurotic running around a back yard, another form of a cage.
Last edited by runswithscissors; 07-16-2013 at 06:49 AM..
Thanks Running. I see you're in Vero so you know the weather is crap again today and so Bru is upset again. He puked again as well. I'm taking him to Holy Family in Ft. Pierce this afternoon, my brother can't afford our regular vet and I can't either - long story - but I think he needs to be seen.
My brother just told me he had this problem before when we had heavy weather and it lasted a week! Geez. I'm not waiting a week. Bruno's suffering I'm sure the vet can help. I'm also getting a thundershirt for him to see if that helps.
Yes, they do know when the weather is changing, they all act goofy long before we're aware. Bruno isn't as nuts as some dogs, he doesn't run around or bark, he just lays next to one of us, sometimes he gets under my brothers legs.
I didn't think of more exercise but that certainly would reduce anxiety, I tell patients to do that all the time and to follow a routine as much as possible. I believe in behavior modification because I've seen the benefits in both people and animals. Patients think I'm being snide when I say it's the same as training a dog, but the principle is the same - be consistent, don't yell, use positive reinforcement, don't punish, be patient, don't get discouraged if today didn't work out as well as you hoped, there's always tomorrow =) Sorry, I get carried away, LOL
It's a difficult situation because while he lives in my home, he's really my brother's dog but he's suffering so I'm taking him to the vet and if checking account is overdrawn I'll just have to pay the fees.
Thanks Running. I see you're in Vero so you know the weather is crap again today and so Bru is upset again. He puked again as well. I'm taking him to Holy Family in Ft. Pierce this afternoon, my brother can't afford our regular vet and I can't either - long story - but I think he needs to be seen.
My brother just told me he had this problem before when we had heavy weather and it lasted a week! Geez. I'm not waiting a week. Bruno's suffering I'm sure the vet can help. I'm also getting a thundershirt for him to see if that helps.
Yes, they do know when the weather is changing, they all act goofy long before we're aware. Bruno isn't as nuts as some dogs, he doesn't run around or bark, he just lays next to one of us, sometimes he gets under my brothers legs.
I didn't think of more exercise but that certainly would reduce anxiety, I tell patients to do that all the time and to follow a routine as much as possible. I believe in behavior modification because I've seen the benefits in both people and animals. Patients think I'm being snide when I say it's the same as training a dog, but the principle is the same - be consistent, don't yell, use positive reinforcement, don't punish, be patient, don't get discouraged if today didn't work out as well as you hoped, there's always tomorrow =) Sorry, I get carried away, LOL
It's a difficult situation because while he lives in my home, he's really my brother's dog but he's suffering so I'm taking him to the vet and if checking account is overdrawn I'll just have to pay the fees.
UGH. Puking doesn't usually go with it plain old IBS but I never say never. Sometimes with IBD they have acid reflux and regurge or barf if the IBD is still there and there's some residue in the GI that is not working properly motility wise. I'd agree he needs to be seen. They also might tell you to use a Benedryl for storms. Some of my people do that. A low dose. But for a real storm not daily.
With a dog like this who is not sick like yours right now, I'd walk him RIGHT OUT THERE after the downpour.
When I was younger and complained about being tired or having "cramps" my grandmother would say "Go mop the floor and you'll feel better". LOL I never forgot that.
My dementia lady is EXACTLY as you said - amazing! Too many people in the room or nagging or something makes her anxiety go from 0 to 60 and can become a real problem. Of course, she won't hydrate OR walk much (she's 87)...and she feels much better with exercise! I agree! I dragged her to the dentist with an emergency last week and she was SO MUCH BETTER the next day! And I really know very little about humans haha. By now the family is so happy that my dog methods work on her they let the CNA go who was not exactly getting the best results.
You're not getting carried away with ME, I do the same thing. Today the lady was being nagged to go shopping and she didn't even remember who the people were. But when I got there she remembered what I said about my own mother and calmed down. It's a very interesting thing. She also remembered to tell me what Rachel Ray cooked yesterday. Then she gathered her strength to advise them she was NOT a morning person and try her again tomorrow afternoon instead of freaking out. LOL good for her.
Thank you for taking care of your brothers dog. And yeah, these downpours are amazing!
Are you in the business of assisted living, CNA or some other on site health care? The family has an RN to double check her condition but is looking for someone more like a practical nurse (besides me haha) so DM me if you are interested or know someone. We need someone who's going to finesse her - not sit there and read the newspaper expecting her to pick out clothes and take her shower etc.
Hmm. No idea how to send a private message but I do have a friend who is a CNA who might need a job in Vero or that area so please contact me and I'll let her know. Lots of layoffs at the hospital lately. I work only in psych, right where I belong, LOL.
Bruno has a coupla issues it turns out. Cukes don't agree with his tummy, Tstroms and loud noises don't help. Add a bacterial infection and you have a horrendously ill doggie =( I was afraid it was too late by the time I was able to take him to the vet. Can I post the vet's name here? They were great. IV's, meds, blood work, for less than a car payment and they were very nice too.
Today I got them both thundershirts and although I don't know how that'll do with really loud noises I noticed Judy was calmer while wearing it tonight. I also purchased Nature's Miracle for the stains on the carpet, anyone have any luck with that? I have a huge mess to clean up. I don't mind cleaning, as someone mentioned at work, I clean pee and poop at work so what's the difference? Only that here it's someone I love in distress...I think of animals just as I do people, except I sometimes think they're smarter. Think about it for a sec, they understand our speech..and imagine a world where cats had opposable thumbs. <shudder> LOL
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compared to whatever might be on cucumber skin. Read the ingredient label of whatever "dog food" you feed. I seriously, seriously doubt something sprayed on the occasional cucumber skin is even remotely to blame.
