Too Smart To Train (shepherd, collies, pups, collars)

[oregonwoodsmoke]

Gosh, smart dogs can be hard to train.


I want to teach Seeker the stop whistle, which means to stop at a distance when the whistle blows.


I've always had the problem that when the dog is given the command he wants to rush to my feet before executing the exercise. But Seeker runs to his X-pen when his meal is ready. So he is out there, I am still in the kitchen, and I say "sit".



He does, way out there away from me, sitting on command at a distance. Hurray!


It worked twice but now he rushes to his X-pen and sits without anyone saying anything. Not what I was trying to train him to do.


The stop whistle is the same as the "hup" command. It means sit right there and don't move until you get another command. But Seeker..... darn dog. He sits as soon as he sees the whistle and doesn't wait for me to blow it.


He's doing OK on his fetch. We have worked through his belief that fetch was step one in a great game of keep-away.


There is still so much ice outside that we aren't doing any training outside. I can't even get off the back porch because there is a wide band of shiny glass slick ice around the porch. The dogs navigate the ice OK, but I don't want to encourage them to run on it, so we wait until spring arrives and the snow and ice melt. I don't know how his fetch will transfer to outside where there is more interesting stuff to be done.

[Socal Labrat]

Smart dogs LOVE to anticipate, it’s a challenging thing to break. I’m sure you have tricks and fixes that will likely work on your pup. I am fairly sure mine wouldn’t sit if I gave him a command from the other room. He did quickly learn to turn around and face me when I send him out to his target, but only because he wants to look at me. I find it easier to teach a cue for something that they want to do automatically, it’s the little bonus moments in our training I’m happy to take credit for (but don’t really deserve).

I love watching field dogs work. They are so damn happy to do it.

[cat1116]

We went thru some traing sessions with newly acquired pups and one of the trainers told us that we had one of those "too smart to train" dogs. It was like he had gone through the class before.

[hiero2]

Oregon; I respect your level of knowledge, which makes it difficult to offer some "lesson learned". I think we both recognize there is no such thing as a "too smart to train" dog. That would mean the dog was too smart to learn, and that is not possible - it's just not in the nature of things. Obviously, there are dogs who are biddable (desiring to please and work with humans), and who have some independence of thought (they can think for themselves, solving problems, and arriving at conclusions). And, these traits, along with what we think of as canine intelligence (ability to learn quickly), happen in individual dogs in varying degrees. So, you've got a dog who is very high in #1, biddability, medium high in #2, independence (but very high for a field dog*), and very high in #3, intelligence.

I think this is kinda like my experiences when I got my current two farmcollies. I've had to adapt a lot in trying to work with them.

There are two things I can think of to suggest you might try (if you haven't already). First is to NAME the new behavior. IMO, you'll find it easier to use the OLD name (command) with the new behavior the dog applies, and provide a NEW name (command) for the desired behavior. Second is e-collars. This describes one of the rare situations when I find an e-collar very useful: namely, when a dog is remote, and the dog's INTERNAL reward/motivation is stronger than my remote approval/disapproval. At that immediate point in time I can apply a remote reinforcement that amplifies my approval/disapproval to a level that can compete with the dogs internal motivators. I don't want to discourage those internal processes - they are what makes the dog happy to work - but shape them. Even just a beep, that close, can be enough sometimes. I don't know why that would work better than a whistle, but sometimes it does.

EDIT: To add two thoughts. Your whistle. You're probably using a plain old whistle - like a referee's pea whistle - you blow - you get a single loud note. I'm assuming you aren't doing a two-fingered mouth whistle (or the like). Look into shepherd's whistles. You can play a waltz on them - which gives you an infinite supply of whistle commands. Also see if Seeker is more visual than auditory. If he shows a visual preference, you might want to focus on hand signals.

That's my thinking, anyway. I'm sure you'll figure this out, given a little time. Spring is coming!

*Think of the independence level of livestock guardians!

[Katie1]

Actually, what you are describing is a dog Anticipating. In the Obedience ring that would be a Fail. So, Keep training until the Dog waits till you say the next command. In this case STOP Commanding the Sit at the same spot change it around.