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Old 01-15-2008, 01:37 PM
 
Location: The Great State of Arkansas
5,981 posts, read 17,024,314 times
Reputation: 7659

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No, I said don't get a trainer from Petsmart for a dog aggressive dog. That's my quote!

I also said Cesar Milan has some great tips...on some things. I wholeheartedly and without apology disagree with his alpha roll approach and I'll go down saying that. Some people get a book and take everything at face value - and I'm not referring to you, I'm warning people that the alpha roll can backfire big time...and I do consider his endorsement of that technique extremely dangerous. I think some of his training techniques are excellent if practiced on a regular basis...unfortunately, some people want an instant fix and if it doesn't happen in 30 minutes like the t.v. show, they become frustrated and do more harm than good.

Many, many dogs can be dogs without being around other dogs. If it's not vitally important to the poster that her dog intermingle, why make him? Dogs do not form packs or have friends in the conventional human sense by walking through Petsmart...they develop "friends" and a pack by those they are with continuously. What dog did you want to practice on with a dog aggressive dog? I'm not trying to be ugly, I truly am not...but sometimes pet owners try to fit the square peg in the round hole, and if it doesn't need to be there, why tamper with success? If the poster can find someone who is familiar with Corgis and is able to adequately evaluate and work with that dog and get him over the largest portion of his aggressiveness, good for her! But it may be a work in progress for many years to come, and I don't think most pet owners are going to go to 6 graduated obedience classes. One six week class should be enough, shouldn't it? ;-) A dog aggressive dog will have to be managed in some way for the rest of his life...lots of owners don't want that responsibility and are content to maintain the status quo in their own home.

I'm not speaking about the very devoted pet owner - I'm speaking of the daily pet owner. There may be absolutely no reason for this dog to ever be in the public eye - if that's the case, at four years old I don't know that I'd push it. It can be done, you're absolutely right (a lot of the time - let me qualify!) - but if it's not vital to the humans or the dog in the equation, I'd say they have a pretty well adjusted dog for their household and let it be...that's just me.




Quote:
Originally Posted by tkdmom View Post
Sam I am- dangerous propaganda...gimme a break !

Just to clarify, I never said get a trainer from Petsmart. I said "let your dog get use to being social" at Petsmart.

All Im saying is the Cesar training worked really well for me, after spending a lot of money on two different trainers and not seeing any results, so I know what Im talking about, since I've done it !

How can a dog be a dog if he can't be around other dogs !

The answer is definitely not to lock your dog up in every social sitch, imo, thats bad advice.
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Old 01-15-2008, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Denver/Boulder Zone 5b
1,371 posts, read 3,398,659 times
Reputation: 1410
Quote:
Originally Posted by PitBullMommie1206 View Post
I don't know much about the breed, but from reading over some websites, it sounds like that might be a "normal" thing. One website said that unneutered males will be aggressive towards other males, especially if there's a female around. But that true for all breeds really. If you aren't going to breed him I would strongly suggest getting him neutered. That would be the best thing for him. Not being fixed he's going to want to breed, well, it's really more like a need to him. And since he's not able to satisfy that need it's only natural for him to have some aggression issues.

We own three APBTs, Brooklyn is our male and then we have two females, Destiny and Jayda. We had Destiny spayed back in August and we were going to get Jayda spayed shortly after we got her, but stuff just kept coming up. Our male APBT, Brooklyn isn't neutered, but we will be getting him neutered sometime in the very near future. We didn't have him neutered when he was younger, because like you, we wanted to breed him. We got Brooklyn from a reputable breeder, he's gorgeous, he's healthy and he has an amazing temperament and personality. But after thinking about how many dogs are being abused and neglected these days, how many dogs are living on the streets, how many dogs are in shelters and how many dogs are being put to sleep everyday to make room in the already overflowing shelters for more dogs, we just couldn't breed him. When Jayda went into her first heat, it nearly killed Brooklyn! Brooklyn wanted to get to her so badly that he couldn't even function! He wouldn't eat, he wouldn't drink, he wouldn't sleep, he couldn't stop shaking and drooling (and none of our dogs drool), he just lost it! I felt so bad for him! I knew he would want to get to her, but I had no idea that he would react like that. Anyway, my point is, I can definitely see why unneutered dogs tend to be aggressive. If they aren't neutered they feel that they need to breed, and if they can't, it's really hard on them.

Getting your dog neutered will not change him. He will still be Dooley, your handsome little devil , he just won't feel that strong need to breed. Trust me, getting him neutered is the best thing for him, if you aren't going to breed him. As far as changing the dog, all neutering or spaying does is help with aggression some. Now, if he wasn't well socialized that could be the reason for the dog aggression, and if that's the case, getting him neutered won't fix that. But having him neutered won't change his personality. Destiny, our female that is spayed, is still her same sweet, crazy, goofy self! lol! Having her spayed didn't change her one bit. And I'm not worried about Jayda or Brooklyn changing when they get fixed either. I have owned 7 dogs, including the 3 we own now, and we got all of them fixed, except for Brooklyn and Jayda. Not one of them changed one bit. I don't know any dogs who changed after being fixed.
PitBullMommie, you have some great advice here! I have also done extensive reading and have found that many articles indicate that male corgis are often aggressive. My veterinarian has also stated this.

We will look more into the pros and cons of getting him fixed in the near future. I certainly have seen some good positive feedback on this subject in this thread. I thank you for the time to respond!
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Old 01-15-2008, 04:55 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
13,088 posts, read 34,540,233 times
Reputation: 9057
Is he aggressive at home only or in other areas? Is he being Protective of you & your familly?
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Old 01-15-2008, 05:04 PM
 
6,307 posts, read 7,997,939 times
Reputation: 8117
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMan7 View Post
I will begin looking into a certified trainer who specializes in corgi behavior and go from there. I had thought of this before, but wanted some other opinions before going forward.
Take advantage of the resources at your fingertips. I'm sure you'll find someone very qualified to work with your dog in no time!

I wish you the best of luck in finding a solution to this. Who knows? This may be some innate behavior in corgis....that's why you need the expert on your side.

Again, all the best for you and your friend.

EDITED TO ADD:

Don't discount the idea of speaking to those involved in "corgi rescue associations". If this is something that is known with the breed, it wouldn't surprise me if many of these animals have been abandoned because of it. They may also be a good resource, not only for tips on how to deal with it, but also for good trainers in your area.
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Old 01-15-2008, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,824 posts, read 21,288,846 times
Reputation: 6523
I agree with the other posters about neutering, it will not change the personality of Dooley. There are other considerations, however, that make neutering a higher health risk (such as a fourfold increase in prostrate cancer, and doubling the risk of bone cancer in neutered dogs).

The most likely explanation for his aggressive behavior around other dogs is a lack of socialization with other dogs when he was younger. If a dog is only around other adults and children growing up, then they will get along great with adults and children, but have a tendency to consider other dogs as a threat. It doesn't matter what the breed.

If this is a concern for you, and you want to make him more amenable toward other dogs, then you need to take the time to introduce him to other dogs on a regular basis. This should be done in a controlled environment (not at a dog park), while on a slack leash. Preferably on neutral ground, so the other dog doesn't feel threatened.

Introduce yourself to the other dog first, so Dooley knows you are comfortable and everything is fine. Then allow Dooley to get to know the other dog, while keeping him on a slack leash. You don't want the leash to be tight because it will restrict his ability to use his body language to communicate with the other dog, but at the same time you want to be able to pull him away should the encounter not go so well. If you are petting or holding the other dog, Dooley will be less likely to be aggressive. It is much more difficult to socialize older dogs, but with a lot of patience I think it can be done.

Best of luck!
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Old 01-15-2008, 07:28 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
13,088 posts, read 34,540,233 times
Reputation: 9057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
The most likely explanation for his aggressive behavior around other dogs is a lack of socialization with other dogs when he was younger. If a dog is only around other adults and children growing up, then they will get along great with adults and children, but have a tendency to consider other dogs as a threat. It doesn't matter what the breed.

If this is a concern for you, and you want to make him more amenable toward other dogs, then you need to take the time to introduce him to other dogs on a regular basis. This should be done in a controlled environment (not at a dog park), while on a slack leash. Preferably on neutral ground, so the other dog doesn't feel threatened.

Introduce yourself to the other dog first, so Dooley knows you are comfortable and everything is fine. Then allow Dooley to get to know the other dog, while keeping him on a slack leash. You don't want the leash to be tight because it will restrict his ability to use his body language to communicate with the other dog, but at the same time you want to be able to pull him away should the encounter not go so well. If you are petting or holding the other dog, Dooley will be less likely to be aggressive. It is much more difficult to socialize older dogs, but with a lot of patience I think it can be done.

Best of luck!
Fantastic !!
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Old 01-15-2008, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
3,568 posts, read 3,523,746 times
Reputation: 1488
Just for grins & giggles, The ATTS '06 Breed Temperament Stats can be found at;

ATTS - American Temperament Test Society, Inc. - Home
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Old 01-15-2008, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Denver/Boulder Zone 5b
1,371 posts, read 3,398,659 times
Reputation: 1410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie1 View Post
Is he aggressive at home only or in other areas? Is he being Protective of you & your familly?
He is aggressive around other dogs in general, male or female. I don't think it's necessarily a "save the family" type aggression - more of a "I'm strong than I look" type aggression. The hair on his back stands up like a mohawk. He thinks he is the only one who has the right to sniff other dogs and when they sniff him, he gets pissed. He doesn't generally bite, but he does growl and snarl a lot.

Another poster noted that he should meet other dogs on common ground - not his own territory or that of another. We have done this and I think he's smart enough to know he has a leash on and is quite obnoxious.

I might also add that we were visiting family in Virginia over the summer (spent 5 days there) and they have a 15 acre farm and 3 dogs (all outdoor dogs, not house dogs like Dooley). We took him off the leash for the entire stay and the first day he was very temperamental, but only physically aggressive toward one dog one time. We figured we would let the dogs do their thing and only intervene if need be. We only had to the one time on the first day. The rest of our trip was quite uneventful and I was surprised to see how well he got along with them. There was the occasional bickering, but he shocked us all with his MUCH subdued behavior.

Since then, we have introduced him to other dogs regularly and he continues to be aggressive. The more I think about the situation with Dooley, it seems to me he needs to be around another dog for an extended period of time before he calms down and warms up to the idea. We've toyed with getting him a buddy and I think that would resolve his aggression toward that dog, but it's not necessarily a fix for other dogs - [as I stated earlier, we have friends with two corgis and a mixed breed and they all get along great, but once they get around other dogs, their male corgi is aggressive toward other dogs - the protective gig, I'm sure]. I also don't want the responsibility of another dog JUST to try to calm his aggression. That sounds quite irresponsible, especially since we don't really want another dog at this time.

Every dog is different and that is certainly what makes them unique - and why all of us love them! All of the suggestions are wonderful and I will take each to heart.

Thanks everyone for all your responses!
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Old 01-15-2008, 09:04 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
13,088 posts, read 34,540,233 times
Reputation: 9057
Katie is Protective Anytime she thinks I am in danger. But around other dogs she is she acts scared when on leash but off she plays & runs with the other dogs. 3 trainers have yet to figure out why.
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Old 01-15-2008, 09:11 PM
 
1,657 posts, read 3,172,424 times
Reputation: 1823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
No, I said don't get a trainer from Petsmart for a dog aggressive dog. That's my quote!

I also said Cesar Milan has some great tips...on some things. I wholeheartedly and without apology disagree with his alpha roll approach and I'll go down saying that. Some people get a book and take everything at face value - and I'm not referring to you, I'm warning people that the alpha roll can backfire big time...and I do consider his endorsement of that technique extremely dangerous. I think some of his training techniques are excellent if practiced on a regular basis...unfortunately, some people want an instant fix and if it doesn't happen in 30 minutes like the t.v. show, they become frustrated and do more harm than good.

Many, many dogs can be dogs without being around other dogs. If it's not vitally important to the poster that her dog intermingle, why make him? Dogs do not form packs or have friends in the conventional human sense by walking through Petsmart...they develop "friends" and a pack by those they are with continuously. What dog did you want to practice on with a dog aggressive dog? I'm not trying to be ugly, I truly am not...but sometimes pet owners try to fit the square peg in the round hole, and if it doesn't need to be there, why tamper with success? If the poster can find someone who is familiar with Corgis and is able to adequately evaluate and work with that dog and get him over the largest portion of his aggressiveness, good for her! But it may be a work in progress for many years to come, and I don't think most pet owners are going to go to 6 graduated obedience classes. One six week class should be enough, shouldn't it? ;-) A dog aggressive dog will have to be managed in some way for the rest of his life...lots of owners don't want that responsibility and are content to maintain the status quo in their own home.

I'm not speaking about the very devoted pet owner - I'm speaking of the daily pet owner. There may be absolutely no reason for this dog to ever be in the public eye - if that's the case, at four years old I don't know that I'd push it. It can be done, you're absolutely right (a lot of the time - let me qualify!) - but if it's not vital to the humans or the dog in the equation, I'd say they have a pretty well adjusted dog for their household and let it be...that's just me.
Ok, I see what you're saying.

I wasn't trying to be ugly either. It's just that the tone of your other post sounded kind of sarcastic towards my post. But I get what you're saying and I do think you have a very good point !

I do hope that sweet little Dooley finds some help for his aggression !
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